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How do you log sim time

j-3

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do you put in your log book initial/upgrade/recurrent training? or do you record in another log book or don't record at all. i use to log during my instrument training but after i started work for a commuter i stop doing. do airlines care how much sim time we have?
 

Orvilleflyer

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If it doesn't move, log it as flight training device time. We had a non moving DHC-300 sim at Scenic, but could only log that as flight training device time.

If it moves (hydraulics and all that), log it as flight simulator time.

Log it in with your regular log book, that's fine, just don't count it as total time. HOWEVER- I understand that if it's D certified, you can log it as total flight time legally (don't quote me on this) but who'd want to do that except for the 747 folks who do it in order to get their landings in? D means that the sim duplicates night and day. C if I'm correct duplicates only night, not day, and that's the reason it can't be counted as total flight time... Again, don't quote me on this!
 

bobbysamd

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Sim time

Do log it in your logbook so you have an independent record of your currency apart from company records. Log it as flight training device only. Please, do NOT put it under total time in your logbook. Be sure to have your instructor sign it off. Put it on your resume as "simulator" or "flight training device."

Your logbook has to be standarized. The majors count flight time all kinds of strange ways that bear little meaning to the FAA. So, when it comes to prepare that major app, do it whichever way that makes them happy. If the major(s) want to include sim time as part of your total time, let them. Just don't count your time yourself the same way. The FARs are the arbiter of flight time logging.

Hope that helps.
 
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MetroSheriff

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This one...again????

As SIM time. Period. Not PIC, not SIC, not ME, not SE, not Total, not Instrument... but SIM time. End of story.

Oh yeah, and like FlyDog said...with a pen.;)
 

corky

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Orvilleflyer said:
D means that the sim duplicates night and day. C if I'm correct duplicates only night, not day, and that's the reason it can't be counted as total flight time... Again, don't quote me on this!

C simulates day and night and just about everything level D does. Level D adds some visual enhancements but primarily stall buffets, flap buffets and greatly enhanced acoustics.

I log it as sim time, simulated instrument time. Never as total time
 

skydiverdriver

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I don't log it at all. It's a waste of logbook space. If your company loses your records, you have to take the training over again anyway. Your personal records are useless, except for personal reasons like getting another job. Hope this helps you.
 

Hawker rider

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How about a typerating and PIc checkout or even an ATP in a level c-sim??

Surely if they can check you like that you would want to put it in your logbook right?

Now i do agree with just the training-sim rides but for a major thing like an upgrade fully done in the sim, sure you should be able to log this, how else do you have a record on it?
I also think it would be strange if, according to the FAA they can do your 135-PIC check, Instrument Profcheck, and even your ATP exam in a sim and people say you can't put it in your logbook.
 

canadflyau

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I have the same question

I posted this same question on another thread.

Hawker rider posted: "I also think it would be strange if, according to the FAA they can do your 135-PIC check, Instrument Profcheck, and even your ATP exam in a sim and people say you can't put it in your logbook."

After calling a couple FSDO's asking this question they acted like there really isn't any explicit regs stating HOW to log flight time.. In fact one of the guys that called me back stated exactly what you said above, that since you can take your check in a sim (he was talking to me about level D) that it was his opinion it was the same as flying the actual a/c and it could be logged accordingly. The other FSDO guy however disagreed and said yes to multi, yes to turbine, yes to Sim (which you can log as one or the other but not both. i.e. Sim or Total, but not Sim and Total) He sated it was an approved replication turbine, multi of the type of a/c however it was a Sim and not the actual a/c, so it was sim and not total.. So who do you listen to, or neither?

This came up recently at an interview and I was totally upfront with the interviewer about both points of view..

So basically the equation I was told is...
single+multi+helo(if applicable)=sim(not pcatd)+total

pcatd, a totally different subject, can only be used for flight experience toward certain ratings (but not total or sim time)and currency. It should be logged in its own column and use the remarks section to describe its set-up (multi or single) and what you practiced in it.
 
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bobbysamd

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FSDO "opinions"

. . . are just that. Opinions. They don't have the force of law.

Simulator, no matter how realistic, is simulator. Airplane is airplane. Keep your records straight and fill out the app for the majors the way they want and let them worry about it.
 

canadflyau

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not just "opinions"

When I call the FSDO for an interpretation of a Reg, or to answer a question I am seeking their informed, dare I say, legal opinion. Calling a FSDO versus walking up to various pilots and asking their opinion on a subject is different in what i am expecting. I and my tax dollars expect to get to the bottom of things when I end up calling the FSDO.

I just don't like calling them up, getting two calls back (like they had an office argument) with each expressing their own different finding.

I understand that I will fill out the apps as perscribed but I don't want to unintentional misrepresent my flight time on my resume. I don't have thousands of hours to show, and since I was at the right place at the right time and got hired by a 121 operator (to be laid off just at the end of training) I want to properly reflect my training experiences, not be accused of any false advertising.

Any specific guidance.. (I like being proved right or wrong by the regs... show me the regs! lol)
 

KlingonLRDRVR

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Canadflyau,

I think what Bobbysamd was trying to say regarding one FSDO's opinion does not have the "force of law" is correct. As much as I feel as you do that relying on one FSDO's opinion to keep you out of hot water should be enough, period, end of story, it is not. Regarding your logbook question I don't really think it'll get you in any hot water with the Federalies but do watch your six on FSDO "opinions" for mattters that can hurt you or your passengers. Other pilots have found out the hardway that if he/she relied on a FSDO's opinion but the "gods sitting above them" [thats a small g in gods] decide that the FSDO's opinion was wrong you will be left holding the bag. It is a sorry state of affairs I agree. I hope you get back to work soon. Cheers.

KlingonLRDRVR
 

Timebuilder

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He's right.

Only a legal opinion from an FAA office of counsel has a binding force of law. No one at a FSDO can legally interpret the regs. All they can do is their myriad of administrative duties, including the beginning of enforcement actions. After that, it goes on to the next level.

Even a letter from a FSDO on a topic in question does not protect you from legal action, unless it reflects the opinion of the office of chief counsel.

In other words, you have to go right to the source, and ask the horse.

(sorry for the Mr Ed reference....) :)
 

skydiverdriver

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I never said you CAN'T log the time, I said that I DIDN'T. There is a difference. Also, like the man said, there is no guideline for logging time. So, your guess is as good as mine. I prefer not to log anything that someone would question, so I just leave it out. Simulator time is great experience, but any airline interviewer knows that you trained in one, so he isn't going to look for the time in your book. Once you have an airline job, the only thing you need to log is what you want to show the next interviewer. That is why many major airline pilots stop keeping a log, exept maybe one of those little red books for pay and tax information.
 
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