How do you know?(scabs)

[Midnight Flyer]

Spooky:
What is the big deal not hating scabs?
Ya got a short memory?
Ya ever worked for an ALPA carrier back then?

CAL, UAL, EAL.?

I would rather drive a wheel barrow in Siberia than crossing a picket line in Florida.Reality is that some of those arseholes are stil flying in various cockpits.The sooner they die, hopefully in great pain from moral cancer, the better it is.

I've unknowingly flown with scab captains upon occassion in my career. Sometimes I didn't realize they were scabs until after my trip and somebody else nanchalantly says to me: "hey, you do know that ole Bill over there is a scab, don't you?"
Doh!!

 

[FN FAL]

I've unknowingly flown with scab captains upon occassion in my career. Sometimes I didn't realize they were scabs until after my trip and somebody else nanchalantly says to me: "hey, you do know that ole Bill over there is a scab, don't you?"
Doh!!

anybody that works for 15K a year as an airline pilot after spending 100,000 or more for an eduction, is a scab...so you all might as well go out and hang yourselves.

 

[Guitar rocker]

Soome of the UAL guys that are scabs obviously dont have ALPA wings. But they try and cover it up by wearing AOPA wings!

 

[Spooky 1]

Agree.

Spooky:

What is the big deal not hating scabs?
Ya got a short memory?
Ya ever worked for an ALPA carrier back then?

CAL, UAL, EAL.?

I would rather drive a wheel barrow in Siberia than crossing a picket line in Florida.

Reality is that some of those arseholes are stil flying in various cockpits.
The sooner they die, hopefully in great pain from moral cancer, the better it is.uke:



I

No memory problems yet. Yes I recall all of those strikes you have listed and yes I have flown with guys who have crossed those picket lines in at at least two of those strikes. So, yes I am familiar with a lot of these issues, which is probably more than I can say for your black and white approach to this subject.

I really have an issue with the Eastern strike. Not that Lorenzo was not a scumbag worth pissing on. As you may recall there never was a vote at Eastern to strike. It was instead called for by a over zealous MEC without regard for the consequences. When ALPA national told the striking pilots to go back to work, the MEC stood up and said no. Those who crossed during this period (refered to as crawl backs), I believe, have been branded as scabs ever since and in my opinion that was wrong. In the future, ALPA needs to be very careful before they start going nuclear, without a strike vote. Don't know who you work for but blindly following your ALPA leaders is without a vote is not in my opinion, clear thinking.

So, yes I know some scabs. Don't mind telling you that some of them do not deserve this aclolade. FYI, I spent 34+ years paying ALPA dues and held several positions within the MEC/LEC, have walked the picket line with both CAL and UAL and voted for and gone out on strike, albeit for less than 24 hours (it worked), so I guess I don't need any history lessons from you,

 

[mar]

Uh oh. And then what happened?

I've unknowingly flown with scab captains upon occassion in my career. Sometimes I didn't realize they were scabs until after my trip and somebody else nanchalantly says to me: "hey, you do know that ole Bill over there is a scab, don't you?"
Doh!!

And if you had known *before* the flight, how would things have gone then?

Would you have performed your job any differently?

Like, would you have added or omitted things to/from the checklist?

Would you have flown faster or slower? Higher or lower?

Maybe you'd brew more or less coffee? Or not even share the gory details of your latest conquest of the slag behind the hotel bar...

In your opinion, exactly how does a professional perform and behave when flying with a scab?

 

[Boeingman]

Puuuleeeaze

Agree.

Spooky:

What is the big deal not hating scabs?
Ya got a short memory?
Ya ever worked for an ALPA carrier back then?

CAL, UAL, EAL.?

I would rather drive a wheel barrow in Siberia than crossing a picket line in Florida.

Reality is that some of those arseholes are stil flying in various cockpits.
The sooner they die, hopefully in great pain from moral cancer, the better it is.uke:

Some of the ignorance on this board is really interesting. You think the only pilots that have moral cancer are scabs? I know a few United retirees that do not think to highly of the current United pilots after the destruction of their retirements. Was there any moral cancer of United pilots during the 1986 attempted by out of Frontier? How do you classify them or justify their actions?

I think there was a great deal of moral cancer with Delta pilots tripping over themselves flying open time during the Eastern strike. What about the moral cancer within Delta in their treatment of Pan American pilots? How about their scab like green slipping while their junior brethren are on furlough?

You want a history lesson from the Continental strike and the moral cancer perpetrated by our MEC in 1983? What about the entire Continental 83 debacle and ALPA's refusal to honor the mechanics and flight attendants picket lines? What about the fact that strike vote was not really in accordance with ALPA policy?

I am not condoning scabbing, but the generalizations some have made here are ridiculous. During my career I have seen many loyal upstanding ALPA pilots hose other loyal ALPA pilots without an iota of regret or remorse.

By the way...can you tell me why there are so many former ALPA pilots on the scab list?

 

[say again]

anybody that works for 15K a year as an airline pilot after spending 100,000 or more for an eduction, is a scab...so you all might as well go out and hang yourselves.

?????????????

 

[airspeed]

Scabs

edited due to a breech of the rules. Airspeed is now banned for naming names--guess he didn't read the rules or my advice.

 

[Phaedrus]

Uh, you're going to have to find a universal definition for "scab" if this issue will ever be dismissed. According to Jack London, anyone in a capitalist society is a scab...anyone. So, assuming you agree with Mr. London, who has a storied background in labor and socialism, you're going to have to start a revolution.

Thus the generous laborer, giving more of a day's work for less return (measured in terms of food and shelter), threatens the life of his less generous brother laborer, and at the best, if he does not destroy that life, he diminishes it. Whereupon the less generous laborer looks upon him as an enemy, and, as men are inclined to do in a tooth-and-nail society, he tries to kill the man who is trying to kill him.
When a striker kills with a brick the man who has taken his place, he has no sense of wrong-doing. In the deepest holds of his being, though he does not reason the impulse, he has an ethical sanction. He feels dimly that he has justification, just as the home-defending Boer felt, though more sharply, with each bullet he fired at the invading English. Behind every brick thrown by a striker is the selfish will "to live" of himself, and the slightly altruistic will "to live" of his family. The family group came into the world before the State group, and society, being still on the primitive basis of tooth and nail, the will "to live" of the State is not so compelling to the striker as is the will "to live" of his family and himself.

The laborer who gives more time or strength or skill for the same wage than another, or equal time or strength or skill for a less wage, is a scab.

It is because he cannot get work on the same terms as they that he is a scab. There is less work than there are men to do work. This is patent, else the scab would not loom so large on the labor-market horizon. Because they are stronger than he, or more skilled, or more energetic, it is impossible for him to take their places at the same wage. To take their places he must give more value, must work longer hours or receive a smaller wage.

But, for scabbing, no blame attaches itself anywhere. With rare exceptions, all the people in the world are scabs. The strong, capable workman gets a job and holds it because of his strength and capacity. And he holds it because out of his strength and capacity he gives a better value for his wage than does the weaker and less capable workman. Therefore he is scabbing upon his weaker and less capable brother workman. He is giving more value for the price paid by the employer.
The superior workman scabs upon the inferior workman because he is so constituted and cannot help it. The one, by fortune of birth and upbringing, is strong and capable; the other, by fortune of birth and upbringing, is not so strong nor capable. It is for the same reason that one country scabs upon another. That country which has the good fortune to possess great natural resources, a finer sun and soil, unhampering institutions, and a deft and intelligent labor class and capitalist class is bound to scab upon a country less fortunately situated. It is the good fortune of the United States that is making her the colossal scab, just as it is the good fortune of one man to be born with a straight back while his brother is born with a hump.
It is not good to give most for least, not good to be a scab. The word has gained universal opprobrium. On the other hand, to be a non-scab, to give least for most, is universally branded as stingy, selfish, and unchristian-like. So all the
world, like the British workman, is 'twixt the devil and the deep sea. It is treason to one's fellows to scab, it is unchristian-like not to scab.
Since to give least for most, and to give most for least, are universally bad, what remains? Equity remains, which is to give like for like, the same for the same, neither more nor less. But this equity, society, as at present constituted, cannot give. It is not in the nature of present-day society for men to give like for like, the same for the same. And so long as men continue to live in this competitive society, struggling tooth and nail with one another for food and shelter, (which is to struggle tooth and nail with one another for life), that long will the scab continue to exist. His will "to live" will force him to exist. He may be flouted and jeered by his brothers, he may be beaten with bricks and clubs by the men who by superior strength and capacity scab upon him as he scabs upon them by longer hours and smaller wages, but through it all he will persist, giving a bit more of most for least than they are giving.

 

[Spooky 1]

*******.

So what am I supposed to do about that?