How do the ASA pilots feel about management?

[IFLYASA]

At the start of my 6th year at ASA, I was purchasing my 5th luggage. All those times my bag rode in the back of the Brasilia and the RJ took it's toll. Well I finally purchased the luggage works bag. I swore I would never let it ride in the back again. Well, the first time it "had" to ride in the back, it comes back with a completely bent handle. It was only 1 month old. Talking about PO'd. After that, my bag only rides in the cabin. Screw what they say, unless they want to give us a luggage allowance.

 

[reno]

Also a vote to transfer our Strategic preparedness committee into the Strike Preparedness committee and passed a resolution for strike ballot authorization.

It does not say that in the press release. Is there another press release that verifies that?

 

["GO AROUND"]

It does not say that in the press release. Is there another press release that verifies that?

Don't know if it was in any press release, but the 2 resolutions passed in the same meeting. Was put out to all ASA pilots.

 

[blueridge71]

Go Around is correct.

 

[ASADriver]

My vote is NO! I've been talking to many pilots who also intend to vote NO! I have been hearing many senior pilots in the crew lounge bring up some very good points about why this isn't the time and that this isn't the same as 1998. They have some very valid points. Some of them have done ALPA work.

I also had a member of the strike committee tell me that it was OK to vote for the strike because we would actually get to vote on it again. That isn't my understanding of it. This is THE VOTE. The "chest thumpers" also like to say that this doesn't mean we will actually strike, that is just a bluf. Well first of all, you don't say you are "bluffing". Second, a strike vote shouldn't be a "bluff". It should only be used if you are really ready to walk away forever. Some of us aren't. At this time, my vote is NO!

 

[COOPERVANE]

I vote yes!!!

I do agree if you vote yes for a strike vote, you'd better be prepared for the consequences.

Having said that, I firmly believe that the ONLY way to KEEP what we already have is to stand up and say ENOUGH!!! Obviously, the company would go back to a mid 80's contract if they could!!

I KNOW THE INDUSTRY IS IN THE TOILET, BUT COME ON!!!

Several months ago,wholesale gas prices went up in the very competetive world of auto gas dealers, who operate on razor thin margins. What did the station manager/owner do? Tell his employees his costs have risen and the competition is fierce, so I will cut your pay? NO! he raised his prices (as they ALL did!) Perhaps an oversimplification but the principle is the same. Don't punish the employees for your lack of planning and "vision"

I for one would be happy with the current Skywest deal (except 70 seat pay) No JRM. commuter clause, etc.. All QOL issues that should be MINIMUM for this level of profession.

Vote yes and send a message:uzi: uke: to management

 

[reno]

just to clarify, SkyWest does not have a commuter clause, we do get JRM'd and we fly 70 seaters for 50 seat pay. Don't accept what we have, we rejected what we have plus 1.2%. We can do better!

 

[~~~^~~~]

This isn't news. Our employee survey last year reported that 92% of the Flight Operations employees did not trust senior management. That is a heck of a "no confidence" vote.

That having been stated, things have improved since Skywest rolled some Vice Presidents out of the building.

Does anyone know if we can really strike before any contract solution has been presented to us for ratification? If I was Skywest I would toss something across the table - crazy to let your employees walk without even making a good faith effort.

 

[reno]

SkyWest has never had to deal with a union or a unified pilot group. ASA's "No confidence vote/auth strike ballot" may just wake them up, a little.

 

[Plug]

My vote is NO! I've been talking to many pilots who also intend to vote NO! I have been hearing many senior pilots in the crew lounge bring up some very good points about why this isn't the time and that this isn't the same as 1998. They have some very valid points. Some of them have done ALPA work.

I also had a member of the strike committee tell me that it was OK to vote for the strike because we would actually get to vote on it again. That isn't my understanding of it. This is THE VOTE. The "chest thumpers" also like to say that this doesn't mean we will actually strike, that is just a bluf. Well first of all, you don't say you are "bluffing". Second, a strike vote shouldn't be a "bluff". It should only be used if you are really ready to walk away forever. Some of us aren't. At this time, my vote is NO!

That may be the talk amongst your small group of friends but I think the Wilson polling data is a little more accurate. The MEC has been very strategic in these negotiations and witheld the strike vote until the numbers were sky high. Also, could those senior pilots also be those who were "grandfathered" in and don't pay dues? Spare me their so called ALPA resume! Quite contrary to what you say, the senior folks I speak to are some of the most militant. Another interesting point is that only about 400 or so pilots out of 1800 were here for contract 98'. A very strong majority of this pilot group recognizes the fact that we the pilots don't always need to pay for management's shortcomings. Don't let SJS blind you!

On another note:

As far as washing your underwear in the sink, this a true statement made by KR and was backed up by our new "Nelson". Absolutely absurd!

 

[601Pilot]

My vote is NO! I've been talking to many pilots who also intend to vote NO! I have been hearing many senior pilots in the crew lounge bring up some very good points about why this isn't the time and that this isn't the same as 1998. They have some very valid points. Some of them have done ALPA work.

I also had a member of the strike committee tell me that it was OK to vote for the strike because we would actually get to vote on it again. That isn't my understanding of it. This is THE VOTE. The "chest thumpers" also like to say that this doesn't mean we will actually strike, that is just a bluf. Well first of all, you don't say you are "bluffing". Second, a strike vote shouldn't be a "bluff". It should only be used if you are really ready to walk away forever. Some of us aren't. At this time, my vote is NO!

No problem, I just cancelled your NO vote with my YES vote! I'm just glad there are only a few like you at ASA. You might want to start that side business or job like the rest of us.

 

[ASADriver]

I do agree if you vote yes for a strike vote, you'd better be prepared for the consequences.

Having said that, I firmly believe that the ONLY way to KEEP what we already have is to stand up and say ENOUGH!!! Obviously, the company would go back to a mid 80's contract if they could!!

I for one would be happy with the current Skywest deal (except 70 seat pay) No JRM. commuter clause, etc.. All QOL issues that should be MINIMUM for this level of profession.


Vote yes and send a message:uzi: uke: to management

So I am voting to walk away from my job just to keep what I already have? Now I am really confused. You say this is "the ONLY way to KEEP what we already have". Am I voting to strike just to keep what I already have? Wouldn't it be easier to just continue dragging things out until things improve? Management can't just take what we already have. It has to be negotiated.

By the way Skywest doesn't have a commuter clause. They also don't have a CONTRACT. And as you already pointed out, their 70 seat rates are far lower than ours.

 

[ASADriver]

That may be the talk amongst your small group of friends but I think the Wilson polling data is a little more accurate. The MEC has been very strategic in these negotiations and witheld the strike vote until the numbers were sky high. Also, could those senior pilots also be those who were "grandfathered" in and don't pay dues? Spare me their so called ALPA resume! Quite contrary to what you say, the senior folks I speak to are some of the most militant. Another interesting point is that only about 400 or so pilots out of 1800 were here for contract 98'. A very strong majority of this pilot group recognizes the fact that we the pilots don't always need to pay for management's shortcomings. Don't let SJS blind you!

Thanks for the history lesson junior. I am one of the "400 or so". It is not the "grandfathered" pilots that are saying these things. It is coming from some pilots who have been involved in the past. It is coming from some pilots who participated in the WOE campaign of '98. It is coming from some pilots who voted to strike last time. It is coming from some pilots who were "militant" last time around. Listen to what some of them have to say. The fact that you believe in this SJS BS tells me all I need to know about you. You must have SJS - after you applied to this place that apparantly sucks so bad. You either have SJS, or your just an idiot.

On another note:

As far as washing your underwear in the sink, this a true statement made by KR and was backed up by our new "Nelson". Absolutely absurd!

I don't know what KR said or didn't say. It doesn't matter to me. I have had nothing but support from the CPs when I needed it. Frankly I don't involve myself with them much. I do what I need to do and nothing is usually ever said. I've worked at far worse places, including ASA during "the dark years". Don't lecture me about absurd - you new guys don't know absurd.

I assume you are referring to SH when you say the new "Nelson". I can tell you that SH is definately not SH. Things aren't changing overnight and things aren't perfect- they never will be. They are however a heck of a lot better than they used to be.

 

[ASADriver]

No problem, I just cancelled your NO vote with my YES vote! I'm just glad there are only a few like you at ASA. You might want to start that side business or job like the rest of us.

No problem, my FO I just flew with is voting NO. You will soon see how "few" we are. As one of the 98% Yes voters last contract, I guarantee you it won't be 98% now. I do think it would pass now, but it won't be nearly as unified as it was last time. If you have any doubts, look at how much better things are operating now than they were in '98. There are far fewer people doing no favors. Just last night I heard people going out of their way to help the process move.

 

[Plug]

Thanks for the history lesson junior. I am one of the "400 or so". It is not the "grandfathered" pilots that are saying these things. It is coming from some pilots who have been involved in the past. It is coming from some pilots who participated in the WOE campaign of '98. It is coming from some pilots who voted to strike last time. It is coming from some pilots who were "militant" last time around. Listen to what some of them have to say. The fact that you believe in this SJS BS tells me all I need to know about you. You must have SJS - after you applied to this place that apparantly sucks so bad. You either have SJS, or your just an idiot.

Okay then, old fart, I guess we'll just except a blended rate for the -200 and -700, hell lets take it up to 99 seats. Those senior pilots you speak of wouldn't mind that too much would they? But since we are hurling insults, you washed up has-been, it isn't my fault that you have lost your dignity as time wore on.

I don't about what KR said or didn't say. It doesn't matter to me. I have had nothing but support from the CPs when I needed it. Frankly I don't involve myself with much. I do what I need to do and nothing is usually ever said. I've worked at far worse places, including ASA during "the dark years". Don't lecture me about absurd - you new guys don't know absurd.

I assume you are referring to SH when you say the new "Nelson". I can tell you that SH is definately not SH. Things aren't changing overnight and things aren't perfect- they never will be. They are however a heck of a lot better than they used to be.

This remark was not intended for you but to someone else on this thread.

That being said, SH is nothing but a weasel and most of the ATL CP's like KR and CC are nothing but puppets who can't get anything done without guidance from above. They are nothing but "yes men", thus the reason MW was sent back to the line. SH is very much like SY and has said repeatedly that we need to be able to compete. He pushes pilots using his robots at the airport and the "underwear" situation was just one example.

To sum it up it appears that you and your senior "friends" choose to fall in line with the likes of SH and compete (read: undercut) for flying because it is the best thing given the current day situation. Talk about being an idiot, you and your senior buddies must really think that labor should pay the price for poor management agreements all the while lining their own pockets with the profits. No matter how much "experience" you say you and your friends have it is obvious that it wasn't good enough.

 

[ASADriver]

Okay then, old fart, I guess we'll just except a blended rate for the -200 and -700, hell lets take it up to 99 seats. Those senior pilots you speak of wouldn't mind that too much would they? But since we are hurling insults, you washed up has-been, it isn't my fault that you have lost your dignity as time wore on.

Didn't say anything about "accepting anything". Just think the status quo might be OK for NOW. Sounds like a lot of junior guys who MAY just be ready to trade those 70 rates for a better reserve section and a commuter clause.
I haven't lost my dignity, just wiser with age. There are certain realities of our situation. I would like to change them, but walking away from this job won't change the competitive landscape. There are a lot of "dignified pilots" looking for work these days.

That being said, SH is nothing but a weasel and most of the ATL CP's like KR and CC are nothing but puppets who can't get anything done without guidance from above. They are nothing but "yes men", thus the reason MW was sent back to the line. SH is very much like SY and has said repeatedly that we need to be able to compete. He pushes pilots using his robots at the airport and the "underwear" situation was just one example.


I disagree with you about SH. He is the best one we have had in that position. Can you name anyone better? If you are looking for perfect you are in for a long bitter career. I'll take better anyday, while you wait for perfect.

I don't disagree with your point on MW returning to the line. He is a no BS guy. That type of personality doesn't work well in a CP position. It's too bad. I know MW pretty well and it sounds like you respect him. Go talk to him someday about our MEC Chairman and see what he thinks of the way ALPA is headed. Remember, he is a no BS guy.

To sum it up it appears that you and your senior "friends" choose to fall in line with the likes of SH and compete (read: undercut) for flying because it is the best thing given the current day situation. Talk about being an idiot, you and your senior buddies must really think that labor should pay the price for poor management agreements all the while lining their own pockets with the profits. No matter how much "experience" you say you and your friends have it is obvious that it wasn't good enough.

Your exactly right, I am looking at the "best thing given the current day situation". I suppose ALPA will protect me if ignore the best thing for me and take one for the team. Will DW help may some of my bills? I hear he makes a pretty good living.

 

[ifly4food]

..........the company wants us to fly fatigued, and expects us to "wash our underwear in the hotel sink" if our overnight bags are lost because we can't put them in the overhead bins.

This crap needs to stop and we can put a stop to it with unity!

Yeah, I heard about this "washing our underwear in the sink" comment today in the crewroom. Not sure where the source of that comment came from, but if there is any truth to it, that is total BS! We should take all our dirty underwear after a 4-day trip and throw'em on the doorstep of the G.O.

Assistant Chief Pilot Kim Reed! Drop by and tell her how you feel about her attitude!

 

[Medeco]

I disagree with you about SH. He is the best one we have had in that position. Can you name anyone better? If you are looking for perfect you are in for a long bitter career. I'll take better anyday, while you wait for perfect.

Yes, I can name one better who ruined himself unfortunately, but DW was better than all the people that have come in since him even though he was higher up that SH, ASA was still small operation and growing rapidly.

Look at all of the LOA's that has his name signed as management, look at the fact that we no longer pay for training at ASA, look at the reserve call out time from years ago, and the list goes on.
I vote yes.

Hell yes,

Medeco

 

["GO AROUND"]

I havn't heard anything bad about SH, but I havn't heard a lot. What little I have was positive.

 

[Tomct]

Strike....I'm ready! Give me the ballot and lets send a MESSAGE to the idiots in the GO and SGU! I am willing to bet my career that they will blink FIRST! It is time....Bring It Baby!!:angryfire