How do I get out of ALPA

[AA717driver]

Step 1: Go to work for an ALPA carrier.

Step 2: Get bought by a non-ALPA carrier that ALPA wants to bring into the fold.

Step 3: Strictly follow the advice of your ALPA-appointed lawyer.

The rest will take care of itself... TC

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

So many message board experts..... so little reality... yeah ALPA sucks.... but your ideas, indifference and ignorance suck harder....

 

[Spooky 2]

If your airline has a closed shop, basically you cannot stop paying dues. Yea there several schemes to avoid this, but the Association can, and probably will ask for your termination and under the cuurent laws there is a pretty good chance you will get terminated. I have seen this exact scenario at Delta on several occasions. Of course the pilots scrambled and paid up thus avoiding the consequences of their actions, as ooposed to continuing down some chest beating, self destructive path of career obliteration.
Not my rules, but that's the way it is.

 

[TWA Dude]

If your airline has a closed shop, basically you cannot stop paying dues.

For clarification:

Open Shop: membership and dues optional

Closed Shop: membership and dues mandatory

Agency Shop: membership optional, Agency Fee required. Agency Fee is determined yearly by audit but is typically around 85% of full dues.

I believe 100% of unionized airline pilots work in Agency Shops. The APA used to be Open but "rectified" that in 2003 due to their "shock" at how many former TWAers opted not to join.

Every airline has a number of Agency Fee-paying non-members. Typically, they were either expelled or resigned from the union in protest. The union is still required to represent non-members. (Quitting in protest hasn't proved to be effective.)

Yea there several schemes to avoid this, but the Association can, and probably will ask for your termination and under the cuurent laws there is a pretty good chance you will get terminated..

True, but very rare, and usually takes years to effect.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

You wanted the rewards... now accept the responsbility. Wanting to pack up your marbles and go home is for kids and cry babies...

Instead of taking the path of least resistence and being miserable... why not take responsibility for yourselves and self govern.

 

[Occam's Razor]

In the past 20 years NWA has had two pilots terminated for failure to pay dues. One got his job back through a payment arrangement (back dues plus interest), with no backfill for the 3-months he spent of payroll.

The other pilot went to a corporate job...lost her medical...and now lives off the spousal support payments given to her by her Ex...another NWA pilot. Her Ex has been re-instated as an ALPA member after paying his back dues.

 

[PCL_128]

True, but very rare, and usually takes years to effect.

It can actually be done much quicker than that, but most unions will give you a long time as a benefit of the doubt to give you the opportunity to rectify the situation. If they want to boot you quicker, they can have it done in a matter of months.

 

[Spooky 2]

Delta also moved fairly quickly on a couple of pilots back in the early to mid nineties. Both agreed to some sort of payment arrangement. There was no doubt in their minds that Delta would have followed through on the terminations.

 

[Midnight Flyer]

Quit paying dues and you can be fired.

I've heard that before but don't understand it.

Isn't that a conflict of interest of the company?
Airlines are pi$$ed when the pilots vote in a union. It's obvious that mgmt hates unions, yet they will fire a pilot if he/she quits the union and stops paying dues?
You would think mgmt would like it when people quit the union.
Doesn't make sense.

 

[PCL_128]

It's not a choice that they have, because agency shop is part of the collective bargaining agreement that they have signed. Under agency shop, if you refuse to pay your dues/fees, then you're out of a job.

 

[Cadillac]

Rez O Lewshun, shut up.


I've been reading your posts and the same theme keeps coming up: if you aren't working at union headquarters every day, you have no say in this union or what happens.

Some of us have lives outside of union service. We did the age 60 poll. It was worded in a way that the executive board could say we wanted a change. Using this farce they changed the union's stance on age 60. Very underhanded.

Like someone else said. Keep brown nosing and hope they invite you inside. But quit telling us it is OUR fault that caused this.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Cadillac, shut up.

Some of us appreciate the role unions have played in our careers, even if they aren't perfect, by getting us to a point where we naturally expect more.

(Lemme know if you don't understand any of that)

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez O Lewshun, shut up.

ouch... that really doesn't stop me from particapting in self government.

I've been reading your posts and the same theme keeps coming up: if you aren't working at union headquarters every day, you have no say in this union or what happens.

Perhaps a comprehension problem. Not sure if you read my post or read what you want to see...

My theme is this... if you refuse to particapte in the politics of your career you will most likely be unhappy. Even if you do.. and don't get want you want...that is the way democracy works... regardless I would rather particapte and lose than be apathetic and complain...

Some of us have lives outside of union service.

That is too bad.... consider if everyone offered some type of union service... instead of pilots expecting to be served they actually help out!

We did the age 60 poll. It was worded in a way that the executive board could say we wanted a change. Using this farce they changed the union's stance on age 60. Very underhanded.

Are you that stupid? If you felt it was a farce then why didn't you do more to be heard and be a political force to considered?

Too busy with your life outsideof union service? Then why do you even care? But yet you do....

Do you get it? You expect to be served but yet when you don't get what you want it is someone elses fault.

And I am the jackass cause I get involved..

Like someone else said. Keep brown nosing and hope they invite you inside. But quit telling us it is OUR fault that caused this.

Keep playing the victim.... it serves your lack of ability and apathy well....

 

[Superpilot92]

Cadillac, shut up.

Some of us appreciate the role unions have played in our careers, even if they aren't perfect, by getting us to a point where we naturally expect more.

(Lemme know if you don't understand any of that)

I agree, Unions are a necessary evil in our industry and history has proven that. That doesnt mean i agree with everything the union does but they are necessary and appreciated.

 

[JPAustin]

Rez,

I have read and have atleast reached an amicable agreement in my head about your responses, but I disagree with you in this case.

Remember that just like being an American citizen, an ALPA member is not required to be "involved" to make his/her voice count. That is like saying an American citizen cannot voice an opinion unless he/she is a politician or political crusader of sorts.

I'm sorry if you feel that every ALPA pilot should get involved else his/her voice doesn't count. Why should the pilot with three kids, a wife, and sick parent living at home (or whatever scenario) be required to volunteer or run for office in order to have a say? I'm sorry, but most pilots ARE "too busy with life outside of union service", just like most Americans are too busy to be of civil service (not for pay).

If a pilot pays his/her dues and votes, he/she is entitled to a voice, and that voice will be heard -- the pilot should NOT be required to be of "union service" in order to have a voice.

Quote -- "That is too bad.... consider if everyone offered some type of union service... instead of pilots expecting to be served they actually help out!"

Are you saying that ALL Americans need to be volunteering their time, all of the time, in order to be heard?

I DO expect to be served by my democratically elected officials. Thats why I pay taxes (dues)! In no way does the government have the right to step into my life and say "you WILL offer FREE TIME to your country for NO PAY, and you will do it all of the time, else you will not have any say in this government." That is one reason the draft was removed because the government overstepped its bounds into a citizen life.

Yes, I do agree with you that civic duty (non-paid) and yes, even union duty, is a good thing, but it is not required! Please show me in the ALPA By-Laws or Constitution for that matter that says I am required to participate. All I know is that I should pay my dues. I have yet to be charged for "back-volunteering".

By the way, I do volunteer and I did hold a rep position in my LEC, I just don't agree with the view that a pilot will only be recognized if he/she volunteers.