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how did you bridge the gap?
- Thread starter scubabri
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Deftone45075
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jstyle13
Reserve for life!
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Use all your resources
One way and the most obvious is to flight instruct. Another cool way if you can afford not to make much money is to get on the internet and search the aircraft registry for the counties around where you live and find individuals/corporations that fly twins and get in touch with them. There are lots of people out there that fly twins single pilot and might not care if you ride along to build time (most of them don't care about the time). Type up some resumes and just start calling people or show up at the door and tell them your situation. I did this. Of about the 12-15 people that I got in touch with, I'm flying regularly with 4 of them ( Be-200, Piper Cheyenne, Navajo and Twin Cessnas). Logged about 50 hours of multi in the last couple months. I'm still in college so my schedule is pretty flexible and expenses are cheap.
Just a thought.
One way and the most obvious is to flight instruct. Another cool way if you can afford not to make much money is to get on the internet and search the aircraft registry for the counties around where you live and find individuals/corporations that fly twins and get in touch with them. There are lots of people out there that fly twins single pilot and might not care if you ride along to build time (most of them don't care about the time). Type up some resumes and just start calling people or show up at the door and tell them your situation. I did this. Of about the 12-15 people that I got in touch with, I'm flying regularly with 4 of them ( Be-200, Piper Cheyenne, Navajo and Twin Cessnas). Logged about 50 hours of multi in the last couple months. I'm still in college so my schedule is pretty flexible and expenses are cheap.
Just a thought.
Wang Chung
Everybody have fun tonite
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CatYaaak
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Try gun-running in Africa.
Not a bad gig, but future employers will look at you funny if they see vague things like " no-name dirt strip in somwhere along the Namibia/Angola border" or "Sub-saharan jungle clearing" in the From - To columns of your logbook, so it's better just to make up your own airport Identifiers..for instance, "YAAK". If you're the type of busybody person that just can't resist filling in the "Remarks" section for each flight, I'd suggest that you do it in a seperate book that's well-hidden, and don't tell anyone...I reapeat, ANYONE!..that you're doing so. You'll get plenty of night flying, not many instrument approaches, but I imagine with the advent of hand-held GPS enroute navigation has been simplified.
Pay is good if you ever get a chance to spend it, and the pension...well, what can I say... it's almost as good as US Air's. Although labor/management relations can be poor at times (if not downright dicey), you'll get the equivalent of a PHD in Customer Service on just how irate some customers can get, and how to defuse extremely tense situations or deal with them if they just can't calm themselves down.
If you do happen come away from the experience and then go on to an airline job or whatever, it will be with an immunity to getting too worked up or stressed-out over the standard Labor/mngmt disputes we tend to see here. That means those living with you will find you much, much easier to be around, as long as you can break the habit of sleeping with a loaded, cocked-and-locked 1911 Colt auto under your pillow.
Most importantly, a good outlook is essential. You know how everyone says their career goal is to pursue and find "the last job they'll ever have in aviation"? Well there you go...just because it's your first job doesn't mean it can't also be your last.
Not a bad gig, but future employers will look at you funny if they see vague things like " no-name dirt strip in somwhere along the Namibia/Angola border" or "Sub-saharan jungle clearing" in the From - To columns of your logbook, so it's better just to make up your own airport Identifiers..for instance, "YAAK". If you're the type of busybody person that just can't resist filling in the "Remarks" section for each flight, I'd suggest that you do it in a seperate book that's well-hidden, and don't tell anyone...I reapeat, ANYONE!..that you're doing so. You'll get plenty of night flying, not many instrument approaches, but I imagine with the advent of hand-held GPS enroute navigation has been simplified.
Pay is good if you ever get a chance to spend it, and the pension...well, what can I say... it's almost as good as US Air's. Although labor/management relations can be poor at times (if not downright dicey), you'll get the equivalent of a PHD in Customer Service on just how irate some customers can get, and how to defuse extremely tense situations or deal with them if they just can't calm themselves down.
If you do happen come away from the experience and then go on to an airline job or whatever, it will be with an immunity to getting too worked up or stressed-out over the standard Labor/mngmt disputes we tend to see here. That means those living with you will find you much, much easier to be around, as long as you can break the habit of sleeping with a loaded, cocked-and-locked 1911 Colt auto under your pillow.
Most importantly, a good outlook is essential. You know how everyone says their career goal is to pursue and find "the last job they'll ever have in aviation"? Well there you go...just because it's your first job doesn't mean it can't also be your last.
KingAirKiddo
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Instructed 'til 1100 hours TT, then begged a local corporate aircraft management company for a job. Flew with them for about a year and a half and got another 650 hours or so in Cessna 210's, Barons, and right seat in King Air 90's and 200's (as well as instructing some more for some of our clients who wanted to obtain certificates and ratings). Had a friend walk my resume into ACA, got the interview, and am currently fat, dumb, and happy flying the CRJ.
The problem I see with this, in the present state of things. Is that there is practically zero CFI jobs out there. I'm a CFII and haven't been able to find even part-time gigs. I've sent out roughly 50 resumes and haven't heard a word, maybe it's because I'm in a hiring pool right now. But the catch 22 of it is that they won't hire me until I get more flight time and nobody else will hire me because of me being in the hiring pool at this said airline. It's terrible out there, really it is. Maybe I'm not expanding my horizon's enough but there seriously isn't anything in the Midwest. When I began my flight training a few years ago, people all around were practically begging for CFI's, and I do remember those times, but that's not the case anymore. In the meanwhile, I'll spend every extra dime I have on flight time and keep on sending and faxing out those resumes until I get a bite. I'm even thinking of reenrolling in school just to have a part-time CFI job. I hope things go well with you and for others, I wish the best of luck to you and I hope that everybody finds employment doing what they like, flying, whatever type of flying that may be.
bobbysamd
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- Nov 26, 2001
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Hiring frustration
You have to keep pumping out those resumes. Fifty is not nearly enough. Send out another hundred. You might get three calls from the one hundred fifty. I don't think that I'd admit to being in a pool up front, if that's what you're doing. That, in and of itself, might be cutting you off from interviews.
Good luck with your job search.
You haven't tried hard enough. Believe me, I know. It took me nearly a year to get my first job, and I already had some time under my belt. This was in 1988, when there was all kinds of hiring going on.PUflight said:
You have to keep pumping out those resumes. Fifty is not nearly enough. Send out another hundred. You might get three calls from the one hundred fifty. I don't think that I'd admit to being in a pool up front, if that's what you're doing. That, in and of itself, might be cutting you off from interviews.
Good luck with your job search.
TwinTails
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- Nov 28, 2001
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Instruction, ferrying, aerial pictures and survey, pt. 134.5.
Don't be afraid to be assertive and shamelessly self promotive. I talked a local charter operation into giving me a VFR 135 checkride at 800 hrs. Then when I hit 1200, I took the IFR ride.
That dang cross country time is the most elusive. Try to hit up little airports with your students whenever you can. Any airport to airport time is counted for 135.
Don't be afraid to be assertive and shamelessly self promotive. I talked a local charter operation into giving me a VFR 135 checkride at 800 hrs. Then when I hit 1200, I took the IFR ride.
That dang cross country time is the most elusive. Try to hit up little airports with your students whenever you can. Any airport to airport time is counted for 135.
pilotyip
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- Nov 26, 2001
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Old Post that fits
Any one reading this board can make it as a pilot provided the talent and desire are there and eventually make it to a point where they can live on what they make, it may not be a "major", but it might be a good charter operation, a good corporate job, a regional, or something involving flying airplanes. It is hard, it is lots of moves, you go where the next job is, it is living in flop houses with 4 other pilots and one bathroom down the hall, it is not buying any new underwear for one year, it is driving a car that you jump start from the battery you keep in the apt on a charger, it is being 100% subservient to your bosses wishes until you can move to your next job and he gives you a good recommendation, it is saying no to your brothers birthday party, it is saying no to being home a Christmas. Come to think about it, this sounds alot like being in the Navy, except for the underwear part. They made us get new stuff. You do not need a 4 yr degree to make it as a successful pilot, in fact you may get to the non "major" level of flying quicker without the time wasted in the pursuit of the 4 yr degree, you need a talent for flying, you need a most gracious personality that focuses on what you can give and not what you can take, and a goal is sight that you will pursue no matter what. Family, girl fiends (more than one night) , babies, do not count, they only get in the way. I have had more than one flight student, older guys starting flying in their late 40's early 50's, tell me they wished they had it all to do over again, they would gone into flying as soon as they could of, but Suzy (girl friend) wanted the house, the babies, the family lifestyle, and they thought there would be time later, but once the commitments come and you elect to honor them, there is no later, until all the kids have left home and you are semi free again.
Any one reading this board can make it as a pilot provided the talent and desire are there and eventually make it to a point where they can live on what they make, it may not be a "major", but it might be a good charter operation, a good corporate job, a regional, or something involving flying airplanes. It is hard, it is lots of moves, you go where the next job is, it is living in flop houses with 4 other pilots and one bathroom down the hall, it is not buying any new underwear for one year, it is driving a car that you jump start from the battery you keep in the apt on a charger, it is being 100% subservient to your bosses wishes until you can move to your next job and he gives you a good recommendation, it is saying no to your brothers birthday party, it is saying no to being home a Christmas. Come to think about it, this sounds alot like being in the Navy, except for the underwear part. They made us get new stuff. You do not need a 4 yr degree to make it as a successful pilot, in fact you may get to the non "major" level of flying quicker without the time wasted in the pursuit of the 4 yr degree, you need a talent for flying, you need a most gracious personality that focuses on what you can give and not what you can take, and a goal is sight that you will pursue no matter what. Family, girl fiends (more than one night) , babies, do not count, they only get in the way. I have had more than one flight student, older guys starting flying in their late 40's early 50's, tell me they wished they had it all to do over again, they would gone into flying as soon as they could of, but Suzy (girl friend) wanted the house, the babies, the family lifestyle, and they thought there would be time later, but once the commitments come and you elect to honor them, there is no later, until all the kids have left home and you are semi free again.
spitfire1940
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- Sep 10, 2002
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1200 hours?
QUOTE]to the 1200 or so to become employible or to your first right seat, etc..[/QUOTE]
ummm .... did I miss something? I've got 1300+ and I know lots of guys with 1500+, 2000+, etc. who can't get a right seat in anything but a 172.
that 1200 number is a relic of the pre-9/11 days, at least for most of us.
QUOTE]to the 1200 or so to become employible or to your first right seat, etc..[/QUOTE]
ummm .... did I miss something? I've got 1300+ and I know lots of guys with 1500+, 2000+, etc. who can't get a right seat in anything but a 172.
that 1200 number is a relic of the pre-9/11 days, at least for most of us.
bobbysamd
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You bet it is a relic
I disagree with Yip's post to the extent that anyone can make it provided that the talent and desire is there. Did I read anything about "luck," "being in the right place at the right time," and "offering the best credentials that you have in your power to offer" in his comments? His degree comment has already been discussed ad infinitum, ad nauseum.
Good luck to all with their respective job searches.
I cannot believe how spoiled some of you guys/gals are. In the late '80s and '90s, 1500 total, 500 multi and the ATP were standard minimum quals at most commuters for street hires - and NO guarantee of an interview. Actual interview quals were much higher. And people fretted and whined about it. Anything less? Forget it. I got my first interview in 1990 with 2800 total and 630 of multi. The 1500 total-500 multi were reductions from a few years before when the mins were 3000 total and G-d knows how much multi.spitfire1940 said:
I disagree with Yip's post to the extent that anyone can make it provided that the talent and desire is there. Did I read anything about "luck," "being in the right place at the right time," and "offering the best credentials that you have in your power to offer" in his comments? His degree comment has already been discussed ad infinitum, ad nauseum.
Good luck to all with their respective job searches.
Last edited:
scubabri
Junior Mint
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Personally, I'm trying to make my own luck. I really spend 80% of my waking day reading the boards, flight info and pprune, sending resumes out to people who I know are throwing my resumes away because I don't meet minimums. Mostly, I am just looking for a little light at the end of the tunnel, and trying to find angles that I missed.
I came out here to the Bahamas hoping that the jump pilot job that I landed would be a good gig, but I've only flown 60 hours in the last 4 months, and worse than that, I've had to use my savings to do that.
I'm not sure if I wasted my time out here, of course in hind sight, I think I could have done better.
I do know that in the last 4 months, I've learned a lot from reading the boards and that when I get to an airport that I can hit the pavement at, I will do just that. Hopefully, I won't spend to much energy suppressing the feelings of rejection, which is why I never went into sales..
I'm about to lose my jump pilot job and I am gonna head out to California, spend my last $3000 to get my CFI with no hope for a job, and hope for the best there. I honestly don't know what else to do. I'm 36 years old, a reject from the IT industry after 15 years, and it's just as bad, if not worse in the IT industry.
Sorry for the ramblings, I just needed to vent. I love to fly, it's something that I wanted to do since I was a kid. I wish I was a few years younger
Things are gonna pick up in the next couple years, the airlines are gonna change the way they do things. There will be more RJ's and from that there will be a need for more pilots. I see that in the next 2-3 years, we will be back to more jobs that pilots thing. I am confident of this, which is why I am sticking with it.
Good luck to everyone.
Brian
I came out here to the Bahamas hoping that the jump pilot job that I landed would be a good gig, but I've only flown 60 hours in the last 4 months, and worse than that, I've had to use my savings to do that.
I'm not sure if I wasted my time out here, of course in hind sight, I think I could have done better.
I do know that in the last 4 months, I've learned a lot from reading the boards and that when I get to an airport that I can hit the pavement at, I will do just that. Hopefully, I won't spend to much energy suppressing the feelings of rejection, which is why I never went into sales..
I'm about to lose my jump pilot job and I am gonna head out to California, spend my last $3000 to get my CFI with no hope for a job, and hope for the best there. I honestly don't know what else to do. I'm 36 years old, a reject from the IT industry after 15 years, and it's just as bad, if not worse in the IT industry.
Sorry for the ramblings, I just needed to vent. I love to fly, it's something that I wanted to do since I was a kid. I wish I was a few years younger
Things are gonna pick up in the next couple years, the airlines are gonna change the way they do things. There will be more RJ's and from that there will be a need for more pilots. I see that in the next 2-3 years, we will be back to more jobs that pilots thing. I am confident of this, which is why I am sticking with it.
Good luck to everyone.
Brian
MYFpilot
SDSU Super Fan
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- 273
Get your CFI then your CFII and finally your MEI. I instructed for about 2000 hours, Had a lot of fun and learned a hell of a lot more than I ever wanted to know about the FAR's. BUT, more importantly I met the people who would eventually help me get into the right seat of a Brazilia. So, If I had to sum up my experiences into a Mastercard commercial, it would go something like this...
Cost of flight training: $30,000
Interest from loans and credit cards: $60,000
LOR's from former students and co-workers that get you the interview: Priceless
That's what you don't get from flying daddy's bonanza, towing banners, or doing traffic watch.
Oh, and also you get to amaze your interviewer with your superhuman knowledge of the FAR's
Cost of flight training: $30,000
Interest from loans and credit cards: $60,000
LOR's from former students and co-workers that get you the interview: Priceless
That's what you don't get from flying daddy's bonanza, towing banners, or doing traffic watch.
Oh, and also you get to amaze your interviewer with your superhuman knowledge of the FAR's
low-n-slow
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KlingonLRDRVR
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low-n-slow
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Iceman21 said:
There are schools specific for ag flying or you could pound the pavement knocking on doors and maybe getting hired on as a ground crewperson eventually working your way into the seat.
It is not as easy as it may have been a few years ago to break into the business but I believe if you want it bad enough...
scubabri
Junior Mint
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the biggest problem I've found is that there is a lot of people out there who will be more than happy to take your money for training and then say, sorry, no job. I can understand that if a person is just not trainable, or there is a personality conflict, but there are actually lots of people out there who that is how they do business. It's wrong, and along with Iraq, these companies should be wiped off the face of the planet.
It would be nice if someone posted a list of people to stay away from someplace.
This is not only for the high end PFT's but the low end as well. It's hard to weed out who's who. It's even harder when you have only so much cash in the bank for training, and if you give it to the wrong person, you could be done for.
Comments anyone?
It would be nice if someone posted a list of people to stay away from someplace.
This is not only for the high end PFT's but the low end as well. It's hard to weed out who's who. It's even harder when you have only so much cash in the bank for training, and if you give it to the wrong person, you could be done for.
Comments anyone?
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