How can I drink the Brown Kool-aid if I cant hold my food down

[Flycatcher99]

Everything I gain in this merger is not taken and subtracted from a Southwest guy. Not the pay, not the seat. The gains you are expecting to have, are taken directly from an AirTran pilot: Seniority, job security, quality of life and capt seats... Not fair, not equitable.

Not true. Your airline, by being acquired by mine, is supplanting the growth that I would have seen organically over the next ten years. Thus, your airline is providing SWA with captains that would have been supplied by SWA FOs, if it were not for this acquisition.

Now, that said, I do agree that we are taking some seniority away from you. But with a stiff arm in my face keeping me away from upgrade, a 9% seniority increase does me no good, in all practicality.

So, what this deal does is this: it makes everything pretty much even. You guys lose seniority, but gain a lot of money. A lot of money. And way better benefits. And a way better company to work for. Don't want the money? Rather have seniority? Okay, then at the very least, your captains can choose QOL as FOs over captain slots.

SWA pilots gain a small amount of seniority (we are so big that your relatively small pilot group does not affect us much), and in return, we've lost upgrades that might have happened in the next few years. Do we get a choice on the matter? Not like AAI captains do.

Sounds to me like both sides gained about the same amount that they lost, with the exception that the AAI guys at least get some choice in the matter, and they also got ATL protections.

 

[Flycatcher99]

Jack,

When I fly with you, I'm gonna give you the full treatment;

1. The flap handle hand hover,

2. The hand on the gear lever , and my specialty

3. The hands 1 inch from the yoke when you're hand flying.

4. Making strange noises when I think it's time to do things.

It's not because I don't trust you .. It's because I think its' funny

Hey! Your captains sound just like ours! My captains do all those things. At the same time.

You don't think it's me, do you?:erm:

 

[On Your Six]

Not true. Your airline, by being acquired by mine, is supplanting the growth that I would have seen organically over the next ten years. Thus, your airline is providing SWA with captains that would have been supplied by SWA FOs, if it were not for this acquisition.

Now, that said, I do agree that we are taking some seniority away from you. But with a stiff arm in my face keeping me away from upgrade, a 9% seniority increase does me no good, in all practicality.

So, what this deal does is this: it makes everything pretty much even. You guys lose seniority, but gain a lot of money. A lot of money. And way better benefits. And a way better company to work for. Don't want the money? Rather have seniority? Okay, then at the very least, your captains can choose QOL as FOs over captain slots.

SWA pilots gain a small amount of seniority (we are so big that your relatively small pilot group does not affect us much), and in return, we've lost upgrades that might have happened in the next few years. Do we get a choice on the matter? Not like AAI captains do.

Sounds to me like both sides gained about the same amount that they lost,
with the exception that the AAI guys at least get some choice in the matter, and they also got ATL protections.

There was no way you were going to "organically" grow into the largest airport and city in the South, Atlanta. No gates, no room. Getting LGA and any DCA slots would have been difficult. Where else were you going to expand in the rest of the country? Which airports had enough room for you to organically grow at the rate you are dreaming about? Give me some examples.

Your retirement rate was flat at only 150 or so retirements per year without the AT merger too. Stagnation. And did you guys lose any money in this deal? Did you ask for any raises or stock for the SWA pilots? Why not?




OYS

 

[Flycatcher99]

There was no way you were going to "organically" grow into the largest airport and city in the South, Atlanta. No gates, no room. Getting LGA and any DCA slots would have been difficult. Where else were you going to expand in the rest of the country? Which airports had enough room for you to organically grow at the rate you are dreaming about? Give me some examples.

Your retirement rate was flat at only 150 or so retirements per year without the AT merger too. Stagnation. And did you guys lose any money in this deal? Did you ask for any raises or stock for the SWA pilots? Why not?



OYS

So you think we would not have grown at all in ten years? You're the one who's dreaming.

Over the last couple of years, we have added many new cities, ones which you probably never would have guessed we would enter. (Because many here didn't think we would go to those places either.) Places like LGA, EWR, BOS, GNV, CHS. Where might we have gone in the future? I'm not in on those decisions, but it's not like there is nowhere to grow. Try CLT, or MEM, or CVG. If we entered BOS, SFO, and DEN in the last few years, then ATL was not out of the question.

It is a plain and simple fact that Mr. Kelly has decided to grow by acquisition rather than by conventional means. I would agree that this acquisition has provided more "growth" than we would have seen otherwise, but that doesn't mean we would not have grown at all organically outside of the acquisition. My point remains that even a small amount of organic growth would have resulted in more advancement for SWA FOs than this deal will.

Not one of your snarky comments can change the picture, OYS. I'd tell you that your schtick is getting old, but frankly, your lunacy is somewhat entertaining, not unlike the babbling idiot over in the corner of the room.

 

[On Your Six]

So you think we would not have grown at all in ten years? You're the one who's dreaming.

Over the last couple of years, we have added many new cities, ones which you probably never would have guessed we would enter. (Because many here didn't think we would go to those places either.) Places like LGA, EWR, BOS, GNV, CHS. Where might we have gone in the future? I'm not in on those decisions, but it's not like there is nowhere to grow. Try CLT, or MEM, or CVG. If we entered BOS, SFO, and DEN in the last few years, then ATL was not out of the question.

It is a plain and simple fact that Mr. Kelly has decided to grow by acquisition rather than by conventional means. I would agree that this acquisition has provided more "growth" than we would have seen otherwise, but that doesn't mean we would not have grown at all organically outside of the acquisition. My

point remains that even a small amount of organic growth would have resulted in more advancement for SWA FOs than this deal will.

Not one of your snarky comments can change the picture, OYS. I'd tell you that your schtick is getting old, but frankly, your lunacy is somewhat entertaining, not unlike the babbling idiot over in the corner of the room.

You guys go to Gainsville, FLA? (GNV). Didn't know that. You can go into CVG
right now, but it would have turned into the next PIT for you. Big hub all for you there in PIT, but still underutilized. No O&D traffic there. CLT? Can't you go there now, too? Did you not see the last announcement of cutbacks by your company, many in PHL and SEA? You don't always do too well in other airline's main hubs, except maybe DEN. You gave examples of past success in growth (BOS, SFO, LGA), but I am now looking for your FUTURE growth without ATL. If you were counting on CHS and GSP, then I don't think it was going to be explosive growth. The acquisition or merger with Airtran was the only way you were going to get access to ATL.

You said you would have grown organically. Any new planes would have just replaced your old ones, the clunker -300s and -500s. The new Airtran planes actually add to your fleet, not just replace it.

And you contend GK would have expanded without the merger or acquisition, and you are entitled to that growth. What if there was another 9-11? What if more of your planes would have sprung their tops with worse results? This is the airline business, where nothing is certain. To think otherwise is really cocky.



OYS

 

[GuppyWN]

ATL has 32 gates?

That's 320 flights a day in our system...... or about 45% more than today. That's not only organic, it's orgasmic.

Gup

 

[Flycatcher99]

You guys go to Gainsville, FLA? (GNV). Didn't know that.

Whoops. Meant GSP.

You can go into CVG right now, but it would have turned into the next PIT for you. Big hub all for you there in PIT, but still underutilized. No O&D traffic there. CLT? Can't you go there now, too?

You asked where else could we grow. I gave you some cities we could add. I don't know how they decide to enter a city, as GSP and CHS were somewhat surprising, and EWR and LGA were especially so. So was BOS, with our serving both PVD and MHT nearby. Plus, they could add service in certain places, and were already talking more slots in slot-controlled airports.

Did you not see the last announcement of cutbacks by
your company, many in PHL and SEA?

Yes, I did. They cut a piddly few flights, ones like PIT to PHL and SEA to GEG. I'm surprised we ever ran those flights to begin with. Cutting a few flights right now when the economy is tanking thanks to Obama and his idiots does not equate to no organic growth for SWA over the next 10 years.

You don't always do too well in other airline's main hubs, except maybe DEN.

Based on the couple of flights you mentioned we are cutting, this comment of yours is a nonsequitor. We do very well in certain hubs. PHL and LAX are huge successes. MCO is a hub, is it not? Doing well there. We are kicking the hell out of DEN. BOS is also doing well, from what I have heard.

You gave examples of past success in growth (BOS, SFO, LGA), but I am now looking for your FUTURE growth without ATL. If you were counting on CHS and GSP, then I don't think it was going to be explosive growth. ATL was a huge door opened by Airtran for you.

I never said ATL would have seen the same amount of growth for us as it will with the acquisition. You keep saying that we would not grow at all. No growth into ATL. You are the one making outlandish suppositions, not me. I am making a very safe hypothetical, and that is that we would have seen a modicum of growth, at least, including into places like ATL.

Look, I'm done debating you. One, no one gives a rat's fart what you think. You have no dog in this fight, except that the final product will be a formidable adversary, as United is realizing in Denver. Two, you are incapable of admitting when you're wrong, which is frequent.

 

[JT12345]

Not true. Your airline, by being acquired by mine, is supplanting the growth that I would have seen organically over the next ten years. Thus, your airline is providing SWA with captains that would have been supplied by SWA FOs, if it were not for this acquisition.

Now, that said, I do agree that we are taking some seniority away from you. But with a stiff arm in my face keeping me away from upgrade, a 9% seniority increase does me no good, in all practicality.

So, what this deal does is this: it makes everything pretty much even. You guys lose seniority, but gain a lot of money. A lot of money. And way better benefits. And a way better company to work for. Don't want the money? Rather have seniority? Okay, then at the very least, your captains can choose QOL as FOs over captain slots.

SWA pilots gain a small amount of seniority (we are so big that your relatively small pilot group does not affect us much), and in return, we've lost upgrades that might have happened in the next few years. Do we get a choice on the matter? Not like AAI captains do.

Sounds to me like both sides gained about the same amount that they lost, with the exception that the AAI guys at least get some choice in the matter, and they also got ATL protections.

This is so delusional and far from reality I am not going to waste time debating an extremist one sided person. This guy is a perfect example of the bubble these guys have been living in.

 

[tico]

As a total outsider who tried to get "stapled" twice at swa...the second time with a real type rating and 1000+ hours using it....I will say 3 things.....100% of the native swa are better off with this agreement and this merger than with out it....100% of the swa step-children are better off with this agreement and merger than with out it...I am more than halfway to the top at a certain precotious but sleazy airline based in the pac/nw and would be happy on my third try to be stapled to the bottom of all y'all.....not likely to happen but would if I could....get the ******************** on with it ladies

 

[dicko]

:beer:I tried, the website said I used to many characters.

This website is designed to protect you. If you'd used another "smiley thingy" in that string, the results would have been akin to instant chemical castration.

Be careful out there. :nuts: