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How bad is it to break a training contract??

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Smash312

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Posts
131
Am currently at Mesa. They seem to be very unorganized and I have a few friends who've been there for almost 2 years anf they've just jumped ship to other regionals. It got me thinking. I know seniority is everything - and if these people are running for their lives 2 years into being at Mesa then should I bail out while I can (been there less than 6 mths). Now I know they have a one year training contract on our heads - and I've heard all sort s of things about if these can be enforced or not. I'm just not sure.

I've been offered an interview at ExpressJet flying the same aircraft I have my SIC type on (ERJ). I feel confident about performing well in the interview. Mesa has had us sitting around for over 2 months waiting....for IOE. And it seem like we won't be making our dates for consolidation. Would it be straight-forward, sensible or even wise to bail out to go to ExpressJet. I know some people would call this a no brainer, but having looked at most of the regionals they seem to be within a few bucks of each other in terms of pay. So thats not a major factor. QOL seems to be a bing one. I've not even made the line at Mesa and I can see how they can give people the run around and well, just make life a little difficult. I hear some very negative things from people who've been there a while, but then don't know if I'm just coming across the wrong type of people. I don't want to come across as being someone that is whining for the heck of it, but I want to see if these people leaving Mesa know something I don't.

I don't want to leave a regional for another regional after a year or two (like I've seen some people doing). It seems like a lateral move as opposed to an upward one. But If some people are doing it after being at a regional for a year or so, well - I guess there is some good reason why. Can someone enlighen me?

Please, only helpful replies only. Thanks.
 
Well, you signed the training agreement, did you not? So if you bail before it expires, you'll probably going to have to pay.
 
Good luck!

Depends on what's most important to you. If you want a good QOL then go to XJT and get the heck out of Mesa. If you can put up with Mesa's B.S. for a couple years get your time and get out then go for it. I guess it also depends on whether you can afford to pay the contract out or not? Do what you want to do because you're going to have to live with it for the next couple years. Don't quit Mesa before you have another job though! Good luck!
 
I am assuming your training contract is one year. I would stick it out and finish that up first. You made a promise, live by your word. It may or may not be enforceable but you might as well be a stand up guy and deal with it. As far as jumping ship otherwise. You're there now, I would just make the best of it, get your time, you should upgrade in a short amount of time, get that PIC time and then MOVE ON! The time will fly by before you know it. But ultimately you know what you have to do and you know your situation (maybe you have a family to support?), so do what you "have to do".
 
Yeah - I fear the fact that regardless if the contract is enforceable or not, I don't want an employer (if the future) calling up for a reference and then the bag of worms about this contract not being honored coming up. That wouldn't do me justice. I think I'll see the contract out - yes it is a one year contract. I think I will go to the ExpressJet interview for experience though.
 
Smash312 said:
Yeah - I fear the fact that regardless if the contract is enforceable or not, I don't want an employer (if the future) calling up for a reference and then the bag of worms about this contract not being honored coming up. That wouldn't do me justice. I think I'll see the contract out - yes it is a one year contract. I think I will go to the ExpressJet interview for experience though.
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According to the PRIA training contracts can not be disclosed as part of your file that gets pulled during the background check. They are not allowed to discuss that. Do what is best for you. Have a lawyer look it over for you and see what he says. The smart thing to do would have been to sign the date one year early. If Mesa is unorganized as some claim they may not have even caught it lol. Then when they go back to enforce it you can say sorry I signed that well over a year ago. If they didn't catch it it is their problem and no longer a factor. If enough people would refuse to sign the contract then maybe you wouldn't have to sign one to begin with. If everyone simply refuses to sign they aren't going to fire the entire class. Trust me if they need pilots as they say they do they will simply have to waive the training note.
 
I left Mesa after 6 months. In August I reveived a bill for 8000.00 bucks. Best 8000.00 bucks I ever spent, until I realized I didnt have a job anymore.
 
Mr Wu said:
Don't know if that is true or not but they can sure as hell ask if you are eligible for rehire.
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That is true, read the advisory circular about the PRIA. As far as eligable for rehire all I know is there are a lot of former Mesa people at skywest. While I do not know the results of their background checks obviously it was good enough for them to get hired. BTW lots of former mesa people at all regionals from what I have heard left within under a year. I don't think anyone takes Mesa seriously at all with regards to anything. Everyone knows they are a clown operation in every sense. They will screw you in a heartbeat so you might as well screw them.
 
HelloNewman said:
That is true, read the advisory circular about the PRIA. As far as eligable for rehire all I know is there are a lot of former Mesa people at skywest. While I do not know the results of their background checks obviously it was good enough for them to get hired. BTW lots of former mesa people at all regionals from what I have heard left within under a year. I don't think anyone takes Mesa seriously at all with regards to anything. Everyone knows they are a clown operation in every sense. They will screw you in a heartbeat so you might as well screw them.
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I agree with this. Mesa is not worth your concern or consideration.

Furthermore, contrary to what some folks have said, you never committed to work there for any length of time at all (do you think THEY feel committed to employ YOU for a year if it doesn't suit their needs? ROTFLMAO). The training contract is just business, has nothing to do with honor.

I definately know one pilot who left well under a year and didn't pay anything. that was a while ago, so I'm not sure what the status is on all that today. You probably want to talk to actual ex-mesa pilots who bailed on the contract recently...there are a sh*t-load of them out there.
 
I am really surprised at the lack of integrity from people these days. Suddenly a promise isnt a "promise" anymore. Regardless of what Mesa would do to YOU, what were your intentions when you signed the contract? People can take a lot of things away from you but in the end, the one thing you can say that nobody took away from you was your integrity. OK, off my soapbox now.
 
crxpilot said:
I am really surprised at the lack of integrity from people these days. Suddenly a promise isnt a "promise" anymore. Regardless of what Mesa would do to YOU, what were your intentions when you signed the contract? People can take a lot of things away from you but in the end, the one thing you can say that nobody took away from you was your integrity. OK, off my soapbox now.
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In the end you still do whats best for you. Mesa screws everyone over so they deserve the same treatment. In my opinion though any company that makes you sign any type of contract like that isn't worth going to. This is why I never went to Mesa. Maybe if the pay was decent I can see wanting someone to sign a training contract but this is still Mesa we are talking about.
 
smash-
If you want to leave Mesa then get the fukc out! Seriously, don't let a stupid training contract hold you back.

I've talked with a few lawyer friends and they said paying back any kinda of training contract would be hard to hold up in court. They have to prove they go after everyone for breaking the contract. We all know they don't so you can argue why are they singled you out.
 
No - I haven't finished IOE yet. My ExpressJet interview is halfway though my IOE. I have a few (or maybe many) days off around the interview date as my schedule isn't set in stone. I'm not assuming I'm hired at ExpressJet yet - but I feel good about the interview. I wouldn't jump until something was certain. But to be honest with you I don't know I want people chasing me for any sum of money, $8k or $1k - it can become miserable - will probably just see out the 1 year term.
 
i'd have no problem breaking a training contract with any airline. do you think you could make them sign a contract that says they promise to keep you employed no matter how bad things get for a year?
 
Contract

Doesn't contract enforcement depend upon what state it was signed in?

If it is an "at will" state (Texas). They can't enforce it. I had a friend at Colgan leave (before a year) and they could not do anything.

I don't know call the union attorney. They would know best. Another thing to check into is if Mesa has enforced the training contact on people that have left before.

G'luck
 
You're done with training, the interview, etc. Why do it again? For the hope of greener pastures in an uncertain industry? En vogue regional of today may be the crap hole of tomorrow. Stay put, suck it up, upgrade and get out.

You should have known about all of this, the contract, QOL, other MESA specific issues before you went there. It's on the web and I am sure you talked to a pilot or two.

Get a purple sleeping board, buck up and try to enjoy it.
 
When does the contract start? Most places (or I should say Some Places) it won't come into effect until you get through IOE.
 
You have not completed IOE. You are not a qualified crewmember on Mesa's equipment, thus not available to work in the capacity in which you were hired. The contract is not binding until you complete training. Training runs through the completion of the Initial Operating Experience. If not, Mesa wouldn't do it. RUN......RUN FASTER......


I don't know call the union attorney
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Yeah, good luck with that. No union attorney will instruct their client (represented pilot) to knowingly default on a contract. It puts them in litigation and thus costs them money. It'll go someting like this:

Pilot - Yeah, I was wondering if Mesa's contract is enforceable?

Union attorney - Yes. You should not quit until the end of the term. That's what the contract says. Next item.....
 
ceo_of_the_sofa said:
You're done with training, the interview, etc. Why do it again? For the hope of greener pastures in an uncertain industry? En vogue regional of today may be the crap hole of tomorrow. Stay put, suck it up, upgrade and get out.

You should have known about all of this, the contract, QOL, other MESA specific issues before you went there. It's on the web and I am sure you talked to a pilot or two.

Get a purple sleeping board, buck up and try to enjoy it.
Click to expand...


Constructive. Thanks - you are right, I did know what I was getting myself into - I think! Just didn't believe all the folks before me. I guess it'll teach me! I suppose learning from other folks experiences will always help. There are others the world over (myself included) that have to try it to believe it. Guess I'll have to believe the wise folks before me in this business.
 
not that you would ever take it this far...but to the best of my knowledge..almost none of these regional training contracts would hold up in court, if they came after you for money..FWIW....not saying its a good idea to bail...I know plenty of people that bailed from Lakes to move on before theyres was up and nothing ever came of it.....
 
1. they will get there money from you. Talk to any lawyer and they will verify that. Trust me I've been through it and had to pay in court.

2. do what is best for you, not mesa. if you must break the contract, that's the cost mesa will get for doing business considering your contract is not as much as it really cost them to train you. don't feel bad - you need to look out for yourself. screw these dirty companys. we do our share buy working for free.
 
I know a few guys that left here before they finished IOE and they never got a bill from Mesa. If you're going to leave do it before you finish IOE. With that being said, after almost 3 years here, I am finally joining the ranks of LAMA in 2 weeks! :beer:
 
These contracts are swiss chees in the majority of the United States....States that are "Right to Work States" also have stipulations on these contracts. The crookedest things companies like Mesa do is claim these training costs when paying taxes, and then come after you for the money. In essence, they are collecting on that money twice. If they were to come after you, I would advise them of this practice and it is illegal and your lawyer will be in contact with them for tax fraud in addition of said hollow contract. Id advise the $135 ALPA membership/legal counsel. These folks are eager to help and decent at aviation law. ************************* Whornstein
 
JAC2LAS said:
When does the contract start? Most places (or I should say Some Places) it won't come into effect until you get through IOE.
Click to expand...


I am 99% certain that they cannot enforce that contract prior to completion of IOE. This has been demonstrated by a number of ex-mesa pilots, but if you want the sure answer contact an AZ attorney.
 
immelman79 said:
1. they will get there money from you. Talk to any lawyer and they will verify that. Trust me I've been through it and had to pay in court.

2. do what is best for you, not mesa. if you must break the contract, that's the cost mesa will get for doing business considering your contract is not as much as it really cost them to train you. don't feel bad - you need to look out for yourself. screw these dirty companys. we do our share buy working for free.
Click to expand...

I stand corrected
 

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