How are you going to get home??????

[steveg]

Thanks Aviatrix, sometimes people get my dander up.

Mckpickle, been there done that. On both sides of the equation. All I'm saying is that your company, whoever it is, is just a heartbeat away from an even worse situation than Mesa. Those guys are just trying to keep a job and feed their family. If you think Mesa is going to determine your future, you are sadly mistaken. You work for a company that works for a major airline. Read the paper, look on the net, airlines are in HORRIBLE shape! If you have to take a big paycut next month, it's not because of Mesa. We are all looking at cuts. I went from 120K/year, to 55/k. And I am extremely happy and excited! Do I blame AWA who has a lower pay scale than my airline? Heck NO! I would be greatful to get hired there (well not really, I've had it w/airlines).

My experience is that pilots are way too worried about what other pilots make, and never worried enough about the airlines. When was the last time you submitted a brief to your company about how they can save money? When was the last time you welcomed a pilot from another airline (MESA) and asked them what they were doing to help the company survive? I suspect your answer is that you are a pilot and not mgmt! How dare I even think of helping mgmt!

Believe me, you better start worrying about your own future, and not some other airline's. I've had plenty of experience with ALPA and other unions. If you think they are your guarantee to a bright future, then you better look twice, and check your six. There are a lot of EAL pilots that think they won, who are still unemployed. Good luck in your career, and never forget that we are in this together. One last question, what would happen if all the major airline pilots adopted the same stance you have? What if we all walked because mgmt. allowed lower pay commuter pilots to codeshare? Would you have a job? Are you still God's gift to aviation when you look at like that? I sincerely wish you luck in your career. Hopefully you won't have to go to several commuters and majors, only to get furloughed and probably never recalled. At least I'm nice to my fellow pilots. Why aren't you?

Steve

PS. The war has started. Let's all say a prayer for our soldiers and the people in the Middle East.

 

[SanJuanPlebe]

How Will We Get Home?

Probably on our own airline since we apparently aren't welcome on yours.

It's a real shame to see stuff on this board that belongs in elementary school.

I didn't beat around the patch in a C152 with a student at the controls, but me logging the flight "experience" because I was in a different career and chose to make a change to the airlines that required expedience because of my age.

The argument about ab-initio training should be in a different thread, not here. But I will say that those that critique it the most are folks that are frustrated they didn't do it that way.

Critiquing a pilot based on how he/she became qualified would be the same as me suggesting you must be a small-penis-loser who can only get hired at a regional airline and can't make it at a major. It doesn't hold water. I don't know you or why you are where you are. As such, it only detracts from my intelligence and credibility to paint folks with such a broad brush. You may live where you fly, like the aircraft, the company. Who knows. The point is that everyone has their own reasons and we shouldn't judge based on half the information. And the point stressed at the recent ALPA BOD in FLA was that we are ALL PILOTS...regardless of employer, experience of where we trained. And we should support each other.

I would offer that many have judged our TA without all the information. I've posted an informative piece submitted by someone who was there. If, after reading it, you still think the same, and have compared the previous contract with the new TA, and you still feel the same, that's fine.

But to make the comments that have been posted and threaten a jumpseat denial is unprofessional and should never be condoned.

Read the news. Air Wisconsin, ASA, ACA, and Skywest (Skywest less because they are more diversified) are in a position of great liability if United folds. Even if they don't fold, you can expect major cuts. And that's not Mesa's fault. So, if you're pissed off and looking for someone to blame, don't look to us. We have nothing to do with you and our only code-share is for Dashes only. We have all the business we can handle right now plus we're having a hard time financing airplanes, like everyone else.

We need to be professional. We need to support each other as best as possible and stick together. Instead of asking us to "shut the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**er down" when we were able to make improvements in our contract and put people back to work, just doesn't make sense. Especially in this environment. And this had the blessing of ALPA.

If you want to attack me personally, go ahead. But it makes you look small.

 

[mckpickle]

Re: How Will We Get Home?

We need to be professional. We need to support each other as best as possible and stick together.

We offered support. We offered it and any pilot I know would have gladly payed a assesment to provide for you (just like comair) in the event of a strike. We were willing to give any and all help to you we could. But you caved. You gave in to the nonsense of a lunatic with dooms day proficies. Its bad, But its not 8 days off or 1.15 and hour or seat lock provsions bad. You negotiate what you want and then give a little back later if you have to. You guys gave in and gave up.

 

[steveg]

You guys gave in and gave up, but you still have a job, which is better than most.

We gave you support and offered to pay an assesment. As long as you do what we prescribe as right. And NO, I don't know a thing about your airline or situation, trust me though, I'm right.

Sorry, I'm just another pilot that is going to tell you how you should do things. After all, I've never worked for Mesa, but I'm a pilot and that gives me the right to tell you how to operate. What were you thinking not sigining for 200/hr? You weak fools! Now I am going to make less! How could you do this to me?

You know, the sad thing is, there are pilots that really think this way. Tonight, when we have soldiers risking their lives for us, some of us sit here and critique others outside of our own myopic view of the world. I really do feel sorry for the pilots that blame others for their place in the world. The Mesa pilots had a tough decision to make. You may or may not like it. Bottom line is, it was their decision. Not mine, and not yours. When you are looking for a job 6 months from now, I hope you have more humility about our profession than you do now.

Steve

 

[Cardinal]

While 8 days off and the like are quite dissapointing, even frightening, this is not the end of the world as we know it. Retroactively punishing in a very personal matter the 78% of pilots who were dumb enough (smart enough) to follow their MECs recomendations is not a reasonable course of action. They voted for the best contract they thought they could get. They did not cross any picket line, so they are certainly not scabs. Sheesh, you even have jetdriven, one of the hardest core company bashers on this board, on the defensive. Certainly ask the Mesa guys "WTF?" but there is no need to screw with their lives in arears. Eagle voted yes on a retarded TA in the best of times, and nobody screws with them. Many carriers are in the negotiating cycle right now, mine included, and though this sucks, our unity will put Mesa's to shame. Their due recompense will come when this Beech FO is making more than their blood-sucking 70-Seater FO.

 

[mckpickle]

But thats the point your missing. Now that Mesa can do it for XX amount less, why would your management pay XX more. I bet ya money that your management will slide a copy of that steamy pile of mesa TA across the table and say, why should you guys get more. As far as kicking them off the jumpseat, I think I have softened on that but I will at least berate them a little bit before letting them on. And the Freedom guys NEVER get on. Freedom scared Mesa and Mesa screwed themselves.

 

[Jeepman]

After reading all this and the TA (UGGH!!) I know it does not bode well for us at SkyWest as we are currently in pay negotiations with our management for 70 & 90+ seat RJ's. I am also certain now that it will probably be the same pay because of this Mesa deal, but even so a 2nd year RJ FO at Skywest makes the same as a 7 year RJ FO at Mesa. And it is better than an actual pay cut.


I don't work at Mesa, never have & thank God never will. I don't know how life (if you can call it that) is over there. And I think alot of us on this board (including myself) have complained about them with this TA yet we don't fully understand what they are facing because we are not in their shoes. While I don't understand why the guys & gals at Mesa agreed to this deal, I am NOT going to deny them the jumpseat, for all I know that person may have voted against it.....now the Free-dumb guys are a different story but I say the true Mesa folks are welcome aboard.

 

[100LL... Again!]

SanJuanPlebe-

PFT'ers are wanna-bes masquerading as pilots.

PFT is for those who feel afraid to compete and must buy their job.

Cheers.

 

[captjim]

Big talk seldom materializes into real action.

It sure looks like fun, though.

Well, the action has begun. Buddy of mine tore up a j/s for right in front of a guy! I have to say I would'nt have done it that way, but I promise I'll carry a lot of fuel in the future!

No Mesa on my J/S! Unless you voted No!

 

[tacojet]

It's too small of a world to burn bridges i.e. abusing jumpseat authority. If you are trying to make a statement, write a letter to their MEC. On a side note the guy was kind of a jackass for revealing his vote, unless it was a criteria for a ride

And to address a previous point of the state of the industry, relating to Majors taking pay cuts. In my opinion their pay cuts do not equate to pay cuts for us at "regionals". If we had pay that was commensurate with their 30% pay cut it would still be a big fat RAISE.

TJ