How are you going to get home??????

[100LL... Again!]

He'll probably be hearing from the jumpseat committee soon. Unprofessional. Thuggish.

If you are going to turn doen a jumpseater, it can be done with diplomacy and tact.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Sanjuanplebe,
Can you elaborate on your statement about ASA being included in being a liabilty if U folds? I have been here 4 yrs and have yet to see one of our planes with United anywhere on it.

 

[trainerjet]

This thread has to be the biggest joke on this board in a long time.

"OH..better refuse those scabs the jompseat. That'll show 'em"

What a crock. The one guy making the most noise referred to himself and his pilot group in a differrent thread as SEASONED PROFESSIONAL(S), (*Note* I added the S.)
Maybe when you actually ARE one, you will see how ridiculous you sound. The statements you made on this and other related theads show you clearly are NOT.

Another guy said that ALPA doesn't represent him. HMMMM...aren't you a regional pilot? The same group of pilots that is screaming how you aren't getting fair representation from ALPA because they favor the majors? So, which is it? You can't have it both ways, although I guess you'll have it whichever way suits your "agenda de jour".

One other guy said no Mesa on his jumpseat unless you voted NO. Ok, so how do you plan on figuring that out?

WAIT....I'll settle this. No pilot from ANY regional whatsoever on MY jumpseat. You all are dragging down the industry with your pathetic wages.

See how absurd and ridiculous you sound? No? I didn't think so.

 

[Brett Hull]

I'm so confused

I'm not an airline pilot, but I hope to be one someday, so I have a couple of questions since I don't know how these things work.

1. If your MEC's are so strong, why does it matter what anyone else does? If your CEO gives you the "Mesa's doing it for peanuts" speech, tell him "We're not Mesa,". If your MEC's as strong as you say they are/pilot group is as unified as it should be, you should get what you want.

2. Why do you guys keep signing contracts that pays 1st year guys @18K, and then you b!tch about what other people do. If the company's pockets are deep enough for the senior guys, they should be deep enough so the new guys diet doesn't consist of ramen, right? We keep comparing our education to that of doctors and lawyers, but they don't have to "pay their dues", or take sub-standard pay for their first year, do they? Why should you? We are "Professionals", aren't we?

I think that those of you who have taken an airline job flying a 1900 or bigger for penny wages DEFINITELY shouldn't be preaching to anyone.

 

[100LL... Again!]

Veeerrrry good point about the first-year pay.

Starve the new guy.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

This thread has to be the biggest joke on this board in a long time.

"OH..better refuse those scabs the jompseat. That'll show 'em"

What a crock. The one guy making the most noise referred to himself and his pilot group in a differrent thread as SEASONED PROFESSIONAL(S), (*Note* I added the S.)
Maybe when you actually ARE one, you will see how ridiculous you sound. The statements you made on this and other related theads show you clearly are NOT.

Dam, did I forget the (S) on that word? Well thanks trainer jet for helping with my grammer. It's nice to see other professionalS in the world. I guess that 8000hrs and that major airline contract of yours has made you forget about us little guys, but that's ok I understand that you guys never really worry about our struggleS, you just climb back upon that high perch of yours and look down at the rest of us poor souls. As far as me making the most noise, well no more so than anyone else who was repulsed by that contract and while it doesn't really effect me it does hurt those in negotiationS at this point, but you wouldn't really know anything about that because as it seems by you statementS attacking several that have issues with this thing You are the only true PROFESSIONAL....

Have a good day captain...

WD.

 

[trainerjet]

Nope. Just trying to make a point. Apparently there are no mirrors in that glass house you are living in.

But I didn't really think you'd do any more than what you did. Sling a little mud in my direction. Whatever makes you feel better.

Pretty sad if you ask me.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Mud slinging just ain't my thang. I do believe however I did say in my last post in the other string that I was a bit tired of the subject and really didn't wish to pursue any further discussion on it...

See ya in the funny papers..

WD.

 

[rightrudder]

Wiskey Driver,

"while it doesn't really effect me it does hurt those in negotiationS at this point"

...I'm afraid it's gonna start to effect you (and me) sooner rather than later, take a look at the Crowley powerpoint presentation...there's several references to the new Mesa contract in his discussion of reducing costs.

 

[Dash8]

juxtaposition

here's an analogy;

mesa accepted their heinder intrusion because of what freedom was to them and for their precioussssss (please read that in the hissing gollum'esque way) 'scope'
talk to the US mainliners about their scope, oh wait, it's mostly gone.

now, mesa is every other regionals freedom, you guys have turned yourselves (except for the 179) into that which you despised most, interesting huh? and you wonder why people don't like you

btw aviatrix, no other pilots I know in the regionals have much respect for mesa pilots as a group (not individuals) , so just cause there's a few very vocal ones on here doesn't mean that they are in the minority.

you may proceed with the vilification, but it matters not to me.

 

[embdrvr]

Question for all

Can anyone tell me who wins in a jumpseat war?

 

[AWACoff]

I can tell you who doesn't win....MESA!

 

[embraerdriver]

thumbs down for mesa

you blew it now suffer!

 

[dogg]

So I have to wonder, when UAL converts all of their fee for departure contracts to simple codeshare agreements and Delta follows suit with non owned carriers what is going to happen to aca/skywest/airwis etc....if you have to go it alone can you? What routes will you fly? how will you handle reservations etc.....seems like some rough roads are ahead for you all as well....just curious when you are competing for pax outside of a fee for departure how well that is going to play........seems like Mesa could become the LCC of the 90 seat and smaller airlines... kind of a scary thought.....change is coming for us all

 

[starchkr]

You're all pricks!!! Not letting someone on your jumpseat because of something some of them had no control over. Shows your maturity level pretty well though. I kinda hope no-one lets you on their jumpseat either. Thsi industry rides on the "treat others as you want to be treated" kind of attitude, so watch out, pretty soon you will only be able to ride on your own systems.

 

[lionflyer]

You're all pricks!!! Not letting someone on your jumpseat because of something some of them had no control over.

Um, no control huh? They are the ones that voted that garbage in.

I would let MESA guys on the jumpseat but NOT Freedom guys but I'm still just an FO.

 

[Palerider957]

Fellas, I don't know. I have a hard time jamming someone up because they did something they thought would benefit them and their families. Granted the Mesa deal sounds pretty lame, but being on the outside I have no idea what pressure they were put under.

My company is in contract negotiations now, and I have no idea if the Mesa contract will affect us. You can bet all of us who are in negotiations can kiss a good raise goodbye just because of the economic climate.

Some points to think about: An earlier post made reference to the Eagle contract, that one was really the pits. I have absolutely nothing but sympathy for Eagle guys, I know they're hurting. We don't talk about denying them jumpseats, rightfully so. As for pilot unity, I heard Delta management offered moderate pay cuts from the pilot group as a whole instead of furloughs...when the senior guys flatly refused to take a pay cut to keep junior guys working, fruloughs came down the pipe. As for Mesa, I'll let them ride, I think they're hurting enough.

If our contract ever gets as bad as Mesa, I'm leaving the industry. I think all of us need to set personal tolerances, when they get soooo shi.tty we're at each others throat--it's time to do something else. I've changed careers before, I can do it again.

Flame away fellas, but it's not worth a hear attack.

 

[beechdriver]

SanJuanPlebe-

PFT'ers are wanna-bes masquerading as pilots.

PFT is for those who feel afraid to compete and must buy their job.

Cheers.

As a check airman/IOE captain for Air Midwest, I can tell you that I much prefer doing initial IOE for 300 hour San Juan grads than 1000+ hour street hires. They are, as a group, extremely prepared, disciplined, dedicated, open to criticism and VERY good at listening to instruction and acting upon it.


For what it's worth, Mesa's Pilot Development program is PFT only in the sense that the students have to cover the costs of flight training. They aren't paying for a job, as is evidenced by the number of grads who either don't get hired or bust out of training and get kicked to the curb. They are guaranteed an interview - period. As far as competition, I defy you to find another avenue into aviation that is more competitive or difficult than MAPD. It is a different road than you may have taken - quicker, probably...easier, I doubt it...just different.

 

[SanJuanPlebe]

How Mesa Contract Screwed Everyone

While I acknowlege that about 8 "Mesa Haters" are the ones who bash Mesa and the contract the most, it occurs to me that what they are complaining the most about at Mesa is something they control the most, which is what they acuse Mesa of NOT doing.

For example. You say Mesa "screwed you" by agreeing to a contract that has enhancements to the current Mesa Agreement in every section except 1, minimum bid. You say we screwed you guys.

However, how does our contract affect you? You tell your management that what's at Mesa has nothing to do with what's at your current company. You can't hold us accountable for hurting you, because remember, WE HAVE ENHANCEMENTS that will cost our company MORE money. So in short, any argument they give you about Mesa won't hold water because we are MORE EXPENSIVE than we were before 3-19-03. Hell, if we would have held out, we would have had no agreement, more Freedom Airlplanes coming online and a LOWER cost structure than we have today. Your company could have thrown a LOWER Mesa cost structure in place, even though our airline would have been shrunk and shifted to a non-union airline (Freedom).

You want to be pissed? Be pissed at Freedom Pilots. Be Pissed at Jonathan Ornstein for his Union Busting Frank Lorenzo tactics. But if you see a Mesa Pilot, thank him or her for at the very least killing Freedom and getting this whipsaw bull**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** stopped and getting ALL of our work, ALPA work.

Before you bash us, get ALL of the facts. I really think you'd have a different opinon.

The Plebe

WHO EARNED HIS JOB and did NOT PAY FOR IT