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Houston G3 crash info

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"GV"?!?

Isn't that the identifier for one of those little SEL Grummans?


Tiger? I think it is? Or, maybe a "Cheetah"?

20K+ hours in that and you are not quite around the world even once.

I didn't and haven't found any reference in any of the CVR transcripts where these guys x-checked the FAF to GS intercept. If they did and got a good GS indication where it was supposed to be, man that would be a real rough deal. Ditto on the Tune and ID full time. If you bother to tune it, before your hand leaves the com/nav stack, you otta be pullin the ident. In any weather. We are professionals, right?

Feel for the families and their needless loss. Let us all be students of their demise rather than judges.

100-1/2


Sorry, GV, couldn't resist. I think the grummans are the most disrespected by ATC with regard to their ID and felt compelled to redirect the thread.

100-1/2
 
GV-Ace said:
I like your post, good comebacks, not true, but very good. The two above I will respond to.



1. Ask the CEOs of Enron, Worldcom, HealthSouth, etc., I think you'll find that they are ALL working for someone, quite a bit harder than us, and some of them have ended up in jail. It aint loading bags, but...Now, if you choose to be in the fast food industry, I would say being a regional manager, or something like that, would be rising to the top.



2. I am in this industry because I love airplanes and flying. If it was for time and money, I would be in something else. You would argue that? I am driven to work as a pilot because I love BEING a pilot. That is all. And if this is to be my chosen industry, than I would aspire to climb to the top, as I would if I were a sanitation engineer. Ever since I had my first lesson in a Taylorcraft, I looked up at the bigger planes and thought...someday...

How about you, ackattacker? Perhaps not.

Nice that you pick and choose which of my points to rebut... whereas I rebuted ALL of your points... but I'll continue.

1. My point was that it is easy to define a relatively narrow range to include yourself at the top. By defining your entire scope of career possibilities to be pilot in the private aviation industry, you've defined yourself to be at or near the top in terms of aircraft size and probably pay scale. Now, maybe you truly are at the top of the career ladder that you've envisioned for yourself. But that doesn't mean that every aircraft you've flown previously and every job you've held previously is a stepping stone which a person either overcomes or gets hung up on. People have different ideas about what the ideal job is, even among pilots. In fact, a lot of non-aviation people might look at a career corporate pilot and wonder what defect the pilot has that he/she didn't move into a more managerial position (Chief Pilot, etc.) or into the airlines.

2. I am also in this industry because I love airplanes and flying. I don't think I said anything which contradicts this. Love of flying is big part of my job satisfaction. I suppose the desire to fly bigger and faster airplanes is there too... but it is tempered by some realities. Number one is that the most fun to be had in flying is in the smaller airplanes. I think you will get little argument on this one from most pilots. The bigger the airplane, the more boring the job. That 777 corporate pilot may have the biggest corporate plane, but he logs the least amount of "real" flying. The real reason for flying bigger and faster planes is because you GET PAID MORE. Probably to support your Taylorcraft sitting at your home-town grass-strip. So I would say that a lot of us really are in it for the money and the "time off", in addition to a love of flying. I would challange you, "Ace", that if someone was to pay you the same as you make now to give airplane rides in a Stearman, you'd probably take it in a heartbeat.

You pointed out that a CEO, at the top of his or her profession, is working extremely hard with little time off and often risking jail time to do it. Now do you really want that job? I don't. And not everybody wants a job in a G-V either. At my current job, I'm home EVERY NIGHT. I get lots of time off to travel (compared to a typical 9-5 job) and I travel nearly for free. I get to fly for a living and work with a nice bunch of people. I live in a tropical paradise, and I make enough to support my current lifestyle. All the light beer and frozen pizza a man could want! But I suppose I'm defective since I don't want your job, where I could stare at the autopilot for 12 hour stretches and collect shampoo bottles from exotic hotels. Maybe I'll think differently when I have a couple ex-wives to support, but for now, no!
 
Cream of the Crop.

I heard this very captain had some issues. God rest his sole, but I know a friend of a friend whose sister was at thirty one flavors last night who told me there was an incident with the steering and ran off the runway. A friend of a friend was on board, and refused to fly with this captain after this flight.

Dude
 
Duderino said:
Cream of the Crop.

I heard this very captain had some issues. God rest his sole, but I know a friend of a friend whose sister was at thirty one flavors last night who told me there was an incident with the steering and ran off the runway. A friend of a friend was on board, and refused to fly with this captain after this flight.

Dude

It did seem from the CVR transcript that when the sheet hit the fan the FO quickly realized what was going on while the captain seemed lost and bewildered. But the FO was the one who set up the radios and he set it up wrong, apparently. And he encouraged the captain to continue. At the end, the FO appeared to be coaching the captain right into the ground. What a senseless loss. It's easy to armchair quarterback these accidents, and I don't mean to disparage the skills of Gulfstream pilots or even these pilots in particular. We all make mistakes and with luck we learn from them and move on, with bad luck other people learn from them and move on... "There but for the grace of God go I".
 
ackattacker said:
It did seem from the CVR transcript that when the sheet hit the fan the FO quickly realized what was going on while the captain seemed lost and bewildered. But the FO was the one who set up the radios and he set it up wrong, apparently. And he encouraged the captain to continue. At the end, the FO appeared to be coaching the captain right into the ground. What a senseless loss. It's easy to armchair quarterback these accidents, and I don't mean to disparage the skills of Gulfstream pilots or even these pilots in particular. We all make mistakes and with luck we learn from them and move on, with bad luck other people learn from them and move on... "There but for the grace of God go I".

Complacency, plain and simple. After reading the transcripts, that is what it seems to be. These guys were older, high-time, not used to this EFIS system, and both used to being in charge. In the military, the worst thing was when the General wanted to take the controls. Now, put a chief pilot and a director of ops. in the plane as a crew, and watch out. The copilot was trying to talk the captain into continuing and the captain was befuddled and letting himself be led. We all should learn from this accident. Back to the basics!
 
CA was the prior CP, and The SIC (Co-capt) was the current CP. Neither was DO to my understanding. Not that it changes the outcome, just for clarity.
 
Flame??

GV-Ace said:
but all of the pilots that I've met that have high time and are still in a small(er) plane, have SOMETHING wrong with their flying or their personality.
This has got to be flame bate!

I would say ask your friends flying the GV if they would rather stay domestically, flying 15 days a month, home every night, with the same pay and benefits that a heavy pilot jet has. Or would they rather fly 12 hour legs being gone 20 days at a time, having to deal with all the “fun” that comes with flying into international, just so they can fly a GV. But with an ego like yours I doubt you have many friends.

The reality is that heavy jets usually pay better and that all adds into the equation of what you want out of your life. However, for everything in aviation there certainly are exceptions, like those 600 hour GIV drivers for certain VNY based charter operation that PFT and are making $28K a year, are they the “cream of the crop”, they're flying Gulfstreams?

For me flying is no where near the top of the list, I want to be the best dad, the best husband, and mostly being happy. Hell, pay me enough, with all the QOL issues and I’ll even happily fly a WSCoD!

I realized this back in 1999, when I had the opportunity to become the CP for a C604 operation. This Challenger has since become a Global and I have absolutely no regrets turning them down.

It obviously helps that my base salary is based at on the 95% of the NBAA Heavy Jet Captain, even though I only fly a lowly light jet.

I don’t know, I guess for me the flying aspect of corporate aviation has simply never been exciting enough to “rise to the top.” If I want to have fun flying I’ll hop into an Extra 300 or Blanik.

I will say this, in a very general rule, you are correct. A very experienced guy flying a Lear 25 on charter, may very well have “issues”. Some may even have what I call it Avbugism (very experienced, but can’t interact with people).
 
501261 said:
This has got to be flame bate!

I would say ask your friends flying the GV if they would rather stay domestically, flying 15 days a month, home every night, with the same pay and benefits that a heavy pilot jet has. Or would they rather fly 12 hour legs being gone 20 days at a time, having to deal with all the “fun” that comes with flying into international, just so they can fly a GV. But with an ego like yours I doubt you have many friends.

The reality is that heavy jets usually pay better and that all adds into the equation of what you want out of your life. However, for everything in aviation there certainly are exceptions, like those 600 hour GIV drivers for certain VNY based charter operation that PFT and are making $28K a year, are they the “cream of the crop”, they're flying Gulfstreams?

For me flying is no where near the top of the list, I want to be the best dad, the best husband, and mostly being happy. Hell, pay me enough, with all the QOL issues and I’ll even happily fly a WSCoD!

I realized this back in 1999, when I had the opportunity to become the CP for a C604 operation. This Challenger has since become a Global and I have absolutely no regrets turning them down.

It obviously helps that my base salary is based at on the 95% of the NBAA Heavy Jet Captain, even though I only fly a lowly light jet.

I don’t know, I guess for me the flying aspect of corporate aviation has simply never been exciting enough to “rise to the top.” If I want to have fun flying I’ll hop into an Extra 300 or Blanik.

I will say this, in a very general rule, you are correct. A very experienced guy flying a Lear 25 on charter, may very well have “issues”. Some may even have what I call it Avbugism (very experienced, but can’t interact with people).

hee hee....we think alot alike.
 

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