Hold on tight

[outerfix]

I prefer Bruno Magli's.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Sound to me like KR wants the planes and assets but doesn't want the pilots with their "legacy" costs. Someone is paying the mother ship too much. If the Big Boys can turn their back on their loyal pilots, where will that leave the rest of us? Sounds like whipsawing.

 

[hammer2]

Sound to me like KR wants the planes and assets but doesn't want the pilots with their "legacy" costs. Someone is paying the mother ship too much. If the Big Boys can turn their back on their loyal pilots, where will that leave the rest of us? Sounds like whipsawing.

Makes sense. Lears and Challengers sitting on the ramp without pilots will make DAC and their investors a lot of money!

 

[Fresh Air]

Decision made.

Say what you want about the 1108 leadership, they stuck to their principles and stood by the CS pilots, even at the expense of our own. And they did it knowing how much it will likely cost them.

 

[BE40Driver]

1108

Boy did they stick their necks out this time. Playing right into KR hand. Please pass the popcorn as the show is about to start.

 

[jetwash]

The union lawyers said that MaCaskill-Bond would apply to the Citation Air take over so the pilots have to be merged if FO takes the aircraft from CItation Air.

Now they are off to getting the paperwork ready for the Flex / Flight Options merger and hopefully get the FO furloughed pilots back into any new positions that are created at Flex. We are after all part of the loyal Flight Options family as Kenn would say.

 

[Rupert.]

Say what you want about the 1108 leadership, they stuck to their principles and stood by the CS pilots, even at the expense of our own. And they did it knowing how much it will likely cost them.

This is most likely the nail in the coffin. They slit the throats of our own to protect outsiders. 1108, go protect the Shares guys, we dont need or want you.

 

[jetwash]

This is most likely the nail in the coffin. They slit the throats of our own to protect outsiders. 1108, go protect the Shares guys, we dont need or want you.

To the other Frac pilots out there reading this, just a bit of clarification of internal FO politics.

Rupert is a member of Kenn Ricci's good old boy network who is trying to get the union out of Flight Options. So when you read the BS that he is putting out take it with a grain of salt and see it for what it really is an attempt to divide the pilot group. So don't take his words and opinions as to what the Flight options pilots are really thinking. Lucky he is just part of a small minority.

 

[Rupert.]

To the other Frac pilots out there reading this, just a bit of clarification of internal FO politics.

Rupert is a member of Kenn Ricci's good old boy network who is trying to get the union out of Flight Options. So when you read the BS that he is putting out take it with a grain of salt and see it for what it really is an attempt to divide the pilot group. So don't take his words and opinions as to what the Flight options pilots are really thinking. Lucky he is just part of a small minority.

If you really think the pilot group isnt thinking we just abandoned 85 furloughed guys, your the one thats the small minority.

 

[Rupert.]

To the other Frac pilots out there reading this, just a bit of clarification of internal FO politics.

Rupert is a member of Kenn Ricci's good old boy network who is trying to get the union out of Flight Options. So when you read the BS that he is putting out take it with a grain of salt and see it for what it really is an attempt to divide the pilot group. So don't take his words and opinions as to what the Flight options pilots are really thinking. Lucky he is just part of a small minority.

If you really think the pilot group isnt thinking we just abandoned 85 furloughed guys, your the one thats the small minority.

 

[gret]

Got it the first time!

 

[chief9404]

Why does everyone thinks DAC is buying Citation Air? They are not buying it. They are only taking over the mgt of the contracts. Most likely Cessna/Textron is paying DAC to handle the existing mgt contracts.

When they sold the CJ3's to Jet Suite did the pilots go with them? What about those Bravos they had as well?

Im sure it sucks for the CA pilots but were they not notified over a year ago that Cessna/Textron was getting out of the business. DAC does not owe anything to those pilots. The 1108 was foolish trying to help them with a contract when they were shutting down anyways. Now they are caught in a tough position.

 

[FR8DOG777]

If you really think the pilot group isnt thinking we just abandoned 85 furloughed guys, your the one thats the small minority.

Good gawd Rupert/Skanza. Abandoned them for what? The lowest paying, harshest working conditions to whats left of the fractional industry? By your analogy you'd think uncle snaggle tooth Kenny was right there with Orville and Wilber just waiting to create pilot jobs. In reality all he has ever done, and will continue to do is exploit pilots. As much disdain I harbor for the mistakes and arrogance of the 1108 even I wouldn't consider a decertification vote. I'm pretty sure there are still about 98% of us that feel the same way.

 

[luckydog]

Now they are off to getting the paperwork ready for the Flex / Flight Options merger and hopefully get the FO furloughed pilots back into any new positions that are created at Flex. We are after all part of the loyal Flight Options family as Kenn would say.

It's interesting you call it a merger as none of the press releases use that word.

This saga would get very twisted if the furloughed FLOPs pilots interviewed and were hired by Flex, or as asked elsewhere, the CA owners and aircraft were transferred to Flex.

I'm sure there will be enough work to keep the lawyers busy for quite some time.

 

[outerfix]

Hey Aeroboy, what's the next move?

 

[AeroBoy]

Hey Aeroboy, what's the next move?

Seems there might have been a last-minute snag in the deal, but I was told it wasn't big enough to stop it from going through. Don't know what the snag was, though. So now it's just a waiting game...

 

[AeroBoy]

Hey Aeroboy, what's the next move?

Seems there was a last-minute snag in the deal, but I was told it wasn't big enough to stop it from going through. Don't know what the snag was, though. So now it's just a waiting game...

 

[Club ORD FO]

which part of the deal? Flex or CA?

 

[shanes123]

which part of the deal? Flex or CA?

CA guess its not the unions fault..Riccis being out bid is the word on the street..Plus they probably got wind of his non sense and dont want to do business with him is my guess..But its all Rumor at this point

 

[CE750Driver]

CA guess its not the unions fault..Riccis being out bid is the word on the street..Plus they probably got wind of his non sense and dont want to do business with him is my guess..But its all Rumor at this point

Wonder who is out bidding him?

 

[Newkem]

Stay tuned

Is the other shoe about to drop? More at 11.

 

[AeroBoy]

Now that I've heard both sides of the story, it looks like the IBT 1108 pretty much killed the CitationAir deal. Kenn wanted to take care of "his guys" (i.e. Flight Options pilots) but the IBT 1108 wanted to take care of the Fl Ops and CitationAir pilots since it represents both. There would have been winners and losers under either plan, but Kenn would have made Fl Ops furloughed pilots the winners and all CitationAir pilots the losers. IBT 1108 would have made some CitationAir pilots the winners, and the rest of the CitationAir pilots along with all furloughed and about 50 currently flying Flight Options pilots the losers. Kenn refused the IBT's offer to integrate the CA pilots by DOH because he wouldn't put about 50 currently employed Fl Ops pilots on the street under this plan. I have to question why the Fl Ops MEC allowed it to prioritize non-Fl Ops pilots over its own members. That doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Fresh Air]

Now that I've heard both sides of the story, it looks like the IBT 1108 pretty much killed the CitationAir deal. Kenn wanted to take care of "his guys" (i.e. Flight Options pilots) but the IBT 1108 wanted to take care of the Fl Ops and CitationAir pilots since it represents both. There would have been winners and losers under either plan, but Kenn would have made Fl Ops furloughed pilots the winners and all CitationAir pilots the losers. IBT 1108 would have made some CitationAir pilots the winners, and the rest of the CitationAir pilots along with all furloughed and about 50 currently flying Flight Options pilots the losers. Kenn refused the IBT's offer to integrate the CA pilots by DOH because he wouldn't put about 50 currently employed Fl Ops pilots on the street under this plan. I have to question why the Fl Ops MEC allowed it to prioritize non-Fl Ops pilots over its own members. That doesn't make any sense to me.

Sounds like you only heard the FO management's side of the story, my friend.

The 1108 could not and did not kill that deal. That decision was in the hands of FO management alone. They could have done it as planned, with or without the approval of the 1108, as they have done with every other business decision that they have ever made.

The truth is, Kenn and Co. knew from the start that taking the CA planes without the pilots was illegal under McCaskill-Bond, and would not stand up in court. So they asked the 1108 to sign a LOA waiving their right to test the legality of the deal in court.

When the 1108 leadership refused to sign off on his illegal transaction, Kenn killed the deal.

 

[gunfyter]

So this is better for everyone? Everyone stays on the job?

 

[luckydog]

So this is better for everyone? Everyone stays on the job?

The FLOPS guys are still on furlough and the CA guys are still on the block waiting for the axe to drop.

It's more like everyone loses, even Kenn.

 

[Fresh Air]

It's more like everyone loses, even Kenn.

For what little my opinion is worth, I think Kenn is a big winner here. The whole mess has caused enough of the FO pilots to turn against the 1108 that the "in house union" movement has picked up considerable steam, and Kenn's goal of crushing the 1108 may soon be a reality. As a matter of fact, one of the organizers called me on the phone in the past week.

It was a smart move by Kenn. If the 1108 had signed off on the deal he would have looked like a hero to the furloughed FO pilots, and the 1108 would be facing legal action for failing to represent the CA pilots. As it turned out, the 1108 looks like the bad guy to a lot of our crews and the 1108 may soon be replaced by a "rubber stamp" union.

 

[doh]

Ricci was trying to transfer the risk of a lawsuit to the IBT. It's really that simple. Now he will tell the furloughed the IBT is responsible for breaking the deal. Transfer risk, divide and conquer. Don't be distracted form that fact.

 

[FRACTRASH]

Is it really about the Furloughed FO pilots? I'm sure most if not all those 85 guys left and have moved on. There's more to this story. Pilots her on Flightinfo only have about half the facts. Even if this works out in some way, shape, or form. I'm pretty sure all the CA Pilots are just plain fed up! We would all walk away tomorrow if offered a position with another company. This has turned into real amateur hour on behalf of management and IBT. Great group of people, it's just a Damn shame.

 

[ProFracPilot]

Regardless of the applicability of MB in the proposed FlOps / CA deal (which IMHO doesn't apply to 135 on demand ops. It will have to be challenged in court to vet the intent of the law...but I digress...) the big problem with the 1108 has exposed. They can not, effectively, represent 2 or more competing pilot groups. Their choosing to pursue other pilot groups serves only the best interest of the IBT 1108 - NOT the pilots themselves. Say want you want about Kenns divide and conquer techniques, the 1108 have shot themselves in the foot here.

 

[AeroBoy]

Regardless of the applicability of MB in the proposed FlOps / CA deal (which IMHO doesn't apply to 135 on demand ops. It will have to be challenged in court to vet the intent of the law...but I digress...) the big problem with the 1108 has exposed. They can not, effectively, represent 2 or more competing pilot groups. Their choosing to pursue other pilot groups serves only the best interest of the IBT 1108 - NOT the pilots themselves. Say want you want about Kenns divide and conquer techniques, the 1108 have shot themselves in the foot here.

Bingo! One union cannot represent competing pilot groups.

Fresh Air, I said I talked to both sides. I did in fact hear the 1108's side, and from someone pretty high up in the organization. Right or wrong, the 1108 wouldn't budge on the issue, but it was this action that caused the deal to be spiked. Kenn just walked away when he realized that the union couldn't/wouldn't work with him.