Hobby Crash?

[some_dude]

No, I think that's "Frak."

I have no idea what "feldercarb" means.

I think that its from the original TV series "Battlestar Galactica". Sort of a futuristic "OH Fudge".

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

1st, please don't call me son; you are insulting my mother.

First, I didn't mean to insult Mrs. Hawker, I meant it as a slight to your apparent lack of experience and, perhaps, age.

If you think that one-way fits all (ie. I do the same landing roll out everytime), you are a real amature. Each and every flight demands analysis, predictions and modifications. This is what a pro does, he (or she, English) weighs out all of the risks and efficiency issues that affect the flight and continuously makes adjustments based on the particular set of circumstances. A go-around is not, in itself, a dangerous maneuver, however if you have the choice between landing safely or going around because some dope doesn't want to use his precious brakes, anyone with half a brain would rather land. Time spent at low altitude in the traffic pattern (especially on VFR days) is enhanced RISK.

I doubt I, or anyone else here tonight, will alter your attitude, but you, son, are the one who's job performance should be analysed.

Ace

 

[:-)]

Sorry to hear that two pilots are no longer with us.

Hearing that the flight was a post m/x functional check flight should preclude most of the stupid assumptions about it being pilot error.


as for the pissing match between hawkerF/O and others, I agree with hawker in spirit but not in truth. I won't talk to controllers when the call above 80 knots unless they indicate some level of distress. However, I will attempt to make their turn off but I won't talk to them until after I get slowed. Remember. AVIATE, NAVIGATE, and lastly COMMUNICATE.

 

[LegacyDriver]

Controllers are always blabbing to us on the landing rollout. My understanding is they're not supposed to do that. I always do my best to accomodate, but if I am busy I don't talk to him. If I'm handling the radios I'm usually too busy with callouts for the FP to talk to ATC and/or reaching for the tiller so I can get us clear of the runway. I'll do my best, but I do find it annoying sometimes.

90% of the time when we're at ACCELERATION ALTITUDE and calling for flap and thrust settings they ask us to call Departure. Never fails in a million years. It's to the point that we use sign language at busy airports to indicate such things as opposed to getting an arse chewing from ATC for missing a call.

 

[FL350]

I just quit talking to controllers. They tend to be pushy, talk too much and I just really don't like them.

Now say this in your best "Office Space" voice.

 

[CaptBud330]

Hawker F/O ...you're right!

I normally don't address the posts I see on these boards, but I feel compelled to come to the defense of Hawker F/O.
He is absolutely right about the runway being his until it's prudent to exit. In my over 41 years pushing tin, I can't remember the number of times the controller would bark instructions to exit the runway because he either had one in position or one on short final. The time to tell someone to have minimum time on the runway is not on the rollout. We are not here to do the controllers job. We have one responsibility and that's the safety of our crew and passengers, not to the passengers on the airplane behind me that may have to make a go around.
Hawker F/O....stay on the runway as long as you need it. I'll adjust to you.

 

[501261]

The reality of it is 90% of the "rollout calls" are "Hawker123, exit Alpha, right on Bravo, contact ground on point 9." A student pilot should be able to handle that.

More importantly that should already have been briefed at FL350, 150 miles out!

No one is saying you need to answer the call (till an appropriate time), or even exit the runway, it is your runway after all and that's when "plan B" comes into action "Gulfstream 123, Go Around, Hawker on the runway." Sometimes that's unavoidable, it happens, no big deal. Day in, day out however, let's help everybody do their job.

 

[leardawg]

Just stopped by to see if there was any information on the Hobby crash. I was sad to see this thread denigrate into so much feldercarb. You guys really need to put down the keyboard and get outside for some sunshine and fresh aire.

Feldercarb, as in Tomfoolery, Folderol, as in "I've never seen so much feldercarb in all my years! Baaaah!" Doesn't anyone remember FDRs famous 1933 speech, in which he said: "My friends, the only thing we need to get all Feldercarbed about is Feldercarb itself!"? Or JFK's famous "Ich Bin Ein Feldercarber" statement?

Freddy Feldercarb.
(Senior Partner, Feldercarb, Feldercarb, & Lutz; Boardmember, Felderco.)

 

[leardawg]

Back to the original topic, I saw the headline on a news website (can't remember which one; was looking over someones shoulder): SMALL AIRPLANE CRASHES AFTER BEING ORDERED TO TAKE OFF. Talk about your nitwit reporting! It made it sound like the poor pilot was made to take off against his will by the big bad controller, and died as a result! I can just see the Dateline investigation with Stone Phillips right around the corner.

 

[Bandit60]

Everyone needs to remember that you are responsible for you flight first. If you can help someone out without it putting your passengers or you at risk then by all means do it.

I had a incident many years back that always reminds me to take care of me first. I was flying a KingAir200 and we had 10 souls on board. (fully loaded). I was cleared to land and then the controller told a student pilot that he was cleared for take off. The student did everything right. As the student pilot was about 50ft in the air the controller told me to go around/balked landing. I told him no I have the runway. He yelled at me an told me to go around and side step right. (he had already told to student to turn right after take off.) I finally did the go around which at this point was the most dangerous thing we could have done. While doing the go around I was eating up the cessna and almost hit him.

After I got on the ground I called the controller and had a spirited conversation with him. I asked him if he was trying to kill me. He said he didnt have seperation and if I landed he would have had to right a report. Keep in mind that if I would have landed there would have been no safety issue. The controller agreed but he still said that he would have had to right the report. I just laughed.

If I would have had to do it all over again I would have landed and made him right a report. Dont let a controllers mistake of having to close of seperation compromise your safety.

 

[h25b]

If I would have had to do it all over again I would have landed and made him right a report. Dont let a controllers mistake of having to close of seperation compromise your safety.

You need to keep in mind that keeping separation is exactly the whole business of a controller, that's what they do and their reason for being...

I see what you're saying, but trust me, you don't want a controller to write that report. Unless of course you happen to enjoy speaking to an FAA Inspector and attempting to convince them not to continue with enforcement proceedings. I recently had a small problem and can honestly tell you that NOT GETTING IN TO A PI$$ING MATCH with the controllers will go miles. Just trust me on this one. Be a professional, communicate any of your concerns, but when push comes to shove be humble and just walk away. They love to make examples out of people that feel they have nothing to learn, and they will try their best to find a way to keep your nose clean if you keep a good attitude. Remember, if they write that report you WILL be getting a call from the FSDO.

We all will screw up one day (us & the controllers).

 

[User546]

An update and more details to the story... and the plot thickens...

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/3441710
(Includes photo of the accident scene)

Cardiologist was 1 of 2 killed in Hobby crash

Houston cardiologist Antonio Pacifico was one of the two men killed Saturday when a jet the doctor owned crashed at Hobby Airport, his wife said today.

Valentina Ugolini, a physician who practiced with her husband, said at their River Oaks home that he died in the crash. She declined further comment.

The identity of the other man on the plane, its pilot, was not available this afternoon.

The twin-engine Cessna Citation 500 crashed at 9:58 a.m. Saturday on the Hobby Airport runway, a few minutes after takeoff. The jet's takeoff, officials said, was hurried ahead of a Southwest Airlines 737 plane that was returning to the airport because of an emergency. The pilot of the Southwest flight, bound for Las Vegas, had asked for permission to return because an indicator light showed high fuel temperatures.

According to records of the Federal Aviation Administration, the Citation was registered to a business owned by Pacifico's Texas Arrhythmia Institute in the Texas Medical Center.

The 33-year-old jet, which could seat up to nine passengers, is at the center of a lawsuit pending in the 125th state District Court in Harris County.

"The maintenance of that aircraft was a key subject of the litigation," Ben Harvie, Pacifico's attorney, said late Saturday. "There are other financial issues in the lawsuit."

Pacifico, 55, was a clinical associate professor at Baylor College of Medicine, best known as the cardiologist of ex-Houston Rocket Hakeem Olajuwon.

In 2003, Pacifico led a group of investors that bought the 50-story Enron building downtown for $55.5 million after the energy giant's collapse.

Representatives of the National Transportation Safety Board were at the scene of the crash today, continuing their investigation.

NTSB spokeswoman Lauren Peduzzi said that investigators arrived in Houston late Saturday to being what could be a year-long investigation of the crash.

"Our investigator arrived on the scene after 4 p.m., so he had only about an hour of daylight left," Peduzzi said. "Most of the work he will need to do in the immediate future is examine the wreckage. I am sure that is what he is doing today. He will examine the wreckage, draw diagrams and interview any eyewitnesses to the crash. Incidentally, he will be drawing upon the maintenance records of the plane."

Peduzzi said that, according to the information she had, the flight was bound for Corpus Christi before it crashed. Roland Herwig, an FAA spokesman, said the Citation was on a "maintenance test flight."

Emergency response to the crash was immediate, said Houston Fire Department Assistant Chief Tommy Dowdy, because crews had been preparing for the expected landing of the Southwest flight.

The Southwest pilot witnessed the Cessna crash from about 7.5 miles away from the airport, said Southwest spokeswoman Paula Berg.

The Southwest flight had taken off from Hobby for Las Vegas at 9:20 a.m. But about 60 miles into the flight, the pilot declared an emergency because of the high fuel temperature indicator light, Berg said.

"There never was a high fuel temperature on the plane, it was just the indicator light," she said.

Because of the emergency, air traffic controllers instructed the Cessna pilot to take off quickly, Dowdy said. Moments after takeoff, however, the jet pilot asked for permission to return to the airport, he said.

Upon receiving the tower's OK, the pilot attempted to land the jet, but it nosedived into the runway, burst into flames, flipped and skidded nearly 300 feet, Dowdy said.

Pacifico and the pilot died at the scene, Dowdy said.

Roger Smith, a spokesman for the Houston Airport System, said, "The fire department immediately put out the fire and tried to get anyone out. But this was a very mangled plane."

A witness told authorities that when the Cessna was in the air, it appeared to wobble to one side, which could indicate an engine went out.

Meanwhile, the Southwest flight was diverted to George Bush Intercontinental Airport, where it landed safely. Berg said she did not know whether any of the 119 passengers on the Southwest flight had seen the crash. The airline "ferried" another 737 to Bush to take the passengers on a 3:10 p.m. flight to Las Vegas, Berg said.

Raytheon Aircraft Services provided hangar services for the Cessna but did not maintain the craft, said Raytheon spokesperson Jackie Berger.

Hobby was closed from 9:49 a.m. to 10:58 a.m. and resumed regular operations about 11 a.m. Southwest had to divert eight flights to other cities and canceled eight others. Twenty flights were delayed by 30 minutes to three hours, Berg said.

The crash marks the second such incident involving a private aircraft at Hobby since June 20, when a Cessna 401 landed short of the runway after clipping a street sign and two pickups on Telephone Road. The pilot was not seriously injured.

Last year, the three-member crew of a Gulfstream III was killed on approach to Hobby while attempting to land in bad weather. The jet, en route to Hobby to pick up former President Bush for a trip to Ecuador, clipped a light pole on the Sam Houston Tollway and crashed into a field about three miles short of the runway.

 

[DAS at 10/250]

Here is what little information I have heard.

The aircraft had been down for MX for at least 9 months.

The mechanic was a young kid, only child, who worked for the Doc.

The Doc had not flown since his plane had been grounded.

The Doc was advised by ************ to hire a professional two man crew to test fly the aircraft. He declined.