Hired!

[snocone]

In between flights today (as a flight instructor), I received a phone call. The conversation was not what I expected. I was asked if I would be interested in becoming a co-pilot on a Citation S/II! I flew right seat with this company from Eugene, OR to Las Vegas on Saturday, and today was offered the position. Originally, they were going to operate single pilot, but over the weekend decided to use a 2 pilot crew. Lucky for me! So excited to begin a career in the rare air! If anyone knows anything about this aircraft, please don't hesitate to fill me in. Good luck to all of you.

 

[Dep676]

Congrats Dude

Hey nice to hear that even in this market there are still jobs to be had. Again Congrats on the new job.

 

[JetPilot500]

Congratulations!

You are gonna love the Citation. Cessna basically makes 1 type of airplane....a C-172. Then they just vary it slightly, different engine(s), bigger cabin, etc. (You'll see what I mean, LOL!) But seriously, the Citation 500 series is the best first jet out there in my opinion. It's easier to fly than most of the bigger twins out there (C-421, Navajo, King Air, etc.). You only have 2 thrust levers to deal with, all the systems are very simple and typical Vref (landing speed) is around 100 knots. Single engine is no problem, kick in a little rudder and just keep on climbing. It's a very forgiving and flexible airplane....I've done 250 knots to a 4 mile final, and comfortable crossed the end of the runway at 100 knots, don't try that in a Learjet!

It may be a little slower than most jets, but it was never designed to compete with a Learjet, it was inteded to compete with a King Air. Compared to the typical King Air, you will cruise 100 Knots faster and 10,000' Higher, all at about the same operating costs per trip. Even compared to a Lear for example, most trips will take you only 5-15 minutes longer, big deal. Short field performance is great, I've used 3,500' runways with no problem, you won't do that in a Learjet either. Roomy Cockpit with big windows.

Citations are perfect airplanes for trips with a few passengers for up to around 1000 miles. Beyond that you probally want a midsize jet for better passenger comfort. The only real difference with the S/II is the "weeping wing" anti-ice system instead of de-ice boots. This system, from what I understand, is much more of a pain in the ass than it is worth. Boots are good, I probally only have to blow them a dozen times per year...and the airplane handles ice very well.

I can't think of much more to say right now, other than you will love it. By the way, I don't mean to rip on Learjets, they are great airplanes too. But the versatility of the Citation is outstanding.

Have Fun!
JetPilot500

 

[SeaBass]

Sounds like you have practiced the Cessna/Learjet speach for a while...Since I have moved on from Lear to a CItation VII...my Lear friends rip on me pretty good..."So, does that citation of yours come with the bird strike kit? You know, the chicken wire on the back of the engines so the birds don't fly up your rear?" Hardy har har har.

Lears are way more sexy though.

--Seabass

 

[IDO.92]

Hey congrats on the new job!!!!

The 550 is a great place to get started!

But I do have to disagree with the previous comment about the Lear being sexier! The earlier Citations maybe, but the lastest new and improved version is definitely one of the sexiest ever. And it doesn't need chicken wire on the tailpipes!!!!!


IDO.92........

 

[F/O]

Good work my man....

Let me know if you hear of any more jet jobs in EUG. I'm up in PDX.......

 

[empenage]

Snocone:

Congrats! I have allot of time in the S/II and you will love it. It's a great airplane to fly. Mine had EFIS on the left side and made switching seats interesting. Find out if you have the larger TKS tank for the wings. It helps. You will learn to manage the system in the weather after one winter, no sweat.

My only advice is dont get stuck holding in ice or you will end up landing to refill the tank. It happened to me once holding over Albany we had to land not because we were out of Jet-A but we were running out of TKS fluid! No other altitudes available. Also get creative with sunscreens. The Citations let the sun in.

Good luck!

 

[><><><]

Congrats on the job!

I'm in a similar situation as you're in, but I haven't been able to get a straight answer as far as the legitimacy of logging SIC time in an aircraft where the PIC has received a single pilot exemption, ie: CE-550/CE-560. Any input would be helpful, as I don't want to get laughed out of a 121 interview someday because I logged 1500 hours of SIC jet time Illegally. What do you guys think? Anyone ever been in a similar situation?

 

[JetPilot500]

How the heck is any airline gonna know if you were flying with a Captain that was single pilot authorized? It is a 2 pilot airplane. They only allow an exemption if the pilot and airplane are specially authorized. It's not like you are flying a King Air with 2 pilots and trying to explain logging SIC time. Besides, you should at least be flying every other leg, not just working radios.

Good Luck,
Jetpilot 500

 

[capt_zman]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but an S/II can't be flown single pilot. I thought only 500's with correct paperwork, 501's and 551's can.

 

[falconpileit]

S=single

Yes the S II can be flown single-pilot

 

[capt_zman]

I understand the logic of the S, but doesn't the > 12,500 gross weight eliminate that.

With the 550SP, the MGTOW is 12,500 because of single pilot paperwork. If you were to fly with a crew of 2 on the 550SP, you are still limited to 12,500 because of the paper.

Don't think that is the case with the S/II.

 

[Vrefus]

SIC Time

><><><,

Regardless of what the FAA might say regarding single pilot aircraft, log the time as second in command if two factors are present. The company you are working for requires it and if the insurance stipulations for the company and aircraft requires it. I take it you're not typed in it other wise you could log PIC if you were the sole manipulator of the controls.

Lastly, Correct me if I'm wrong, the only way that a/c is single pilot is if the CB panel has been placed within reach of the pilot and he/she is operating the radios on a boom mike.

So, Log it as SIC, press on and don't worry about it.

Vrefus

 

[CE650SC]

SII - SIC

The Citation SII (CE-S550) is a two crew aircraft, I fly one. You can and should log SIC as long as you are not typed because you are a required crewmember. When you get your type rating log the left seat time as PIC.
Good luck and have fun! You got a nice break, eh!

Oh yeah, the (S) does not stand for Single pilot in SII. The SII was when they changed the wing on the 500 series airplanes. It is basically the the same wing as the Citation V but with TKS.

 

[falconpileit]

Single pilot

there are 2 different S-2's based at my airport and they are both flown single pilot. The guys who fly them are single pilot certified. I'm not at expert, I'm just telling you what I see.

 

[CL60]

Great start

snocone,

The SII is a great enrty-level aircraft. Great to fly and very forgiving. The "wet wing" is easy to handle and works well. You will have to stockpile or otherwise locate TKS fluid around the country but its not a big deal. Not too slow either, flight plan around 390 to 410 knots TAS if I remember correctly???

The 500 series aircraft cockpits are however like being encased inside an airless bubble in the summertime and you will roast without without an air conditioner and a GPU. We had an AC unit installed in the SII I flew years ago and it got cool enough to hang meat after a few minutes with the unit blowing. (Fore and aft squirrel cage fans). Without a/c, plan on wrapping a towel around your neck to make your shirt and tie last the day. Also, ground heat is a problem in the winter. Start an engine in the winter to warm up the cabin first if you have to leave it outside.

Most of the 500's I flew made loud popping noises as we climbed. It was the large windows settling in as the psi increased. It will keep your belts tight.

Looks like your first jet job and first true corporate job. My advice... be safe, be careful, and triple check everything. I congratulate you. There is much to learn about airplanes, your new flying environment, and people. Better get busy!

Good luck

 

[CE650SC]

SII

The SII can be flown single pilot, but the (S) does not stand for single pilot. I believe the 550SP stood for single pilot and the airplane was designed specifically to be flown single pilot (i.e. they included a boom mic, and other enhancements).
All of the Citation II's can be flown single pilot if the pilot and aircraft meet all of the requirements. I think that even the 500, 501, and Citation I can be flown single pilot now with the proper modifications. The difference in the SII with the other Citation II's is the supercritical wing. It is the wing that is now on the V, Ultra and Encore but without the deicing boots. They didn't have a boot to fit the wing so they used TKS instead.
But yes the SII can be flown single pilot. Cessna was even trying to get the Excel approved for single pilot operation when they first designed it. Check out some of the early models, the gear handle is on the left side.
It is a great airplane to build your turbine time in. It is very reliable, the biggest pain is the TKS. Get you a gas can or something and cary a little extra with you during the winter months.
Good luck

 

[56xdriver]

Congratulations on the new job! You will love the SII. It's a very forgiving aircraft. We have been operating one for the last couple of years and it is very reliable. We have been able to flight plan anywhere from 380-400 kts for cruise depending on the altitude. The TKS system is very reliable, we have had no problems operating in icing conditions at all. You just have to plan ahead on how long you can use it before you start running low on fluid. If you have the large tank, that is definately a bonus.

 

[Timebuilder]

Congratulations on joining the jet aircraft ranks. I won't start a Lear/Citation p***ing war.

As far as logging SIC, read this:

>>>FAR 61.51(f) allows the second-in-command to log flight time as second in command (SIC) as follows:

(f) Logging second-in-command flight time. A person may log second-in-command time only for that flight time during which that person:

(1) Is qualified in accordance with the second-in-command requirements of § 61.55 of this part, and occupies a crewmember station in an aircraft that requires more than one pilot by the aircraft's type certificate; or

(2) Holds the appropriate category, class, and instrument rating (if an instrument rating is required for the flight) for the aircraft being flown, and more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is being conducted.

In order to log second-in-command flight time, the SIC must be a required flight crewmember by regulation or type certification. Required by the company, insurance carrier, customer, PIC, etc. does not count.

That last paragraph tells the story of logging SIC. Don't make your interview at Big Airways a disaster by logging SIC outside of the bounds stated above.

Thanks again to Doc's FAR page.

 

[Vrefus]

(2) Holds the appropriate category, class, and instrument rating (if an instrument rating is required for the flight) for the aircraft being flown, and more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is being conducted.


This is where the FAA Regs are taken out of the picture and the company regs prevail. The company is showing a higher level of restriction by being able to work under such parameters. As long as you completed the necessary training for it, you can log it as SIC.