Agreed. Comair does not abide by those hiring practices. The only instance that is comparable, is the 250 hour pilots from WMU Delta has forced Comair to take. Most of those low time pilots have washed out in training. I believe 3 have made it out onto the line. Out of those 3, 1 has left or has been let go. Comair is well aware that low time pilots are not a good investment. $$$$
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Agreed. Comair does not abide by those hiring practices. The only instance that is comparable, is the 250 hour pilots from WMU Delta has forced Comair to take. Most of those low time pilots have washed out in training. I believe 3 have made it out onto the line. Out of those 3, 1 has left or has been let go. Comair is well aware that low time pilots are not a good investment. $$$$
BadDogsInc.
New member
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- Dec 1, 2003
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- 2
Sometimes you guys will believe anything as long as you see it in print!
As a furloughed female airline pilot and with well over Comair's minimums, I never received an interview and even with someone walking a resume in, they said they had so many apps from 4000-5000 hour guys that I was simply not competitive there.
I have spent 7 months trying to find a new regional job and just got hired again.
In fact I was turned down for a corporate job flying a Citation (which I am typed in and DID NOT get a " Women in Aviation scholarship" for) because the owner thought his wife would not be cool with me as the pilot!!!!
I NEVER got a call from any airline that I did not meet their mins!
So enough of the "cry me a river..."
As a furloughed female airline pilot and with well over Comair's minimums, I never received an interview and even with someone walking a resume in, they said they had so many apps from 4000-5000 hour guys that I was simply not competitive there.
I have spent 7 months trying to find a new regional job and just got hired again.
In fact I was turned down for a corporate job flying a Citation (which I am typed in and DID NOT get a " Women in Aviation scholarship" for) because the owner thought his wife would not be cool with me as the pilot!!!!
I NEVER got a call from any airline that I did not meet their mins!
So enough of the "cry me a river..."
Rottweiller
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BaronFR8Dog
Well-known member
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Ace & RR,
I am the original poster.
You can doubt all you want. PM me and I'll tell you her name. If you know someone in Comair HR who can look her up and tell you the flight time she had when offered the job and when hired then you'll know. I can also give you email addresses of several of our pilots who know the story. She was well-liked and we're all happy for her, but most of have much more experience and college degrees (which she does not have), excellent records and work ethics and we can't get a "drop dead" out of Comair.
My beef is not that she got the job. In fact she is a very good pilot and I have flown with her. My beef is that she, along with so many other females are hired way ahead of males with equal or greater experience. When have you heard of Comair giving an offer letter of employment PENDING that person reaching their minimums? I certainly never have.
There is blatant anti-male discrimination in the hiring practices of many airlines. What is wrong with standing up against discrimination? As I predicted in my original post, the liberal PC NAZIS came out with flames and attacks. I ignore their juvenile rantings and personal attacks. In their mind discrimination is okay, as long as they approve of who's getting the shaft.
BFD
I am the original poster.
You can doubt all you want. PM me and I'll tell you her name. If you know someone in Comair HR who can look her up and tell you the flight time she had when offered the job and when hired then you'll know. I can also give you email addresses of several of our pilots who know the story. She was well-liked and we're all happy for her, but most of have much more experience and college degrees (which she does not have), excellent records and work ethics and we can't get a "drop dead" out of Comair.
My beef is not that she got the job. In fact she is a very good pilot and I have flown with her. My beef is that she, along with so many other females are hired way ahead of males with equal or greater experience. When have you heard of Comair giving an offer letter of employment PENDING that person reaching their minimums? I certainly never have.
There is blatant anti-male discrimination in the hiring practices of many airlines. What is wrong with standing up against discrimination? As I predicted in my original post, the liberal PC NAZIS came out with flames and attacks. I ignore their juvenile rantings and personal attacks. In their mind discrimination is okay, as long as they approve of who's getting the shaft.
BFD
BoilerUP
Citation style...
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- 5,311
BaronFR8Dog said:
I'd say there is less anti-male discrimination going on at the airlines, and more pro-boobies discrimination. Its a shatty way all around, but in a male dominated environment, if you have a pretty face and bangin' body you can move faster than those who don't [read GUYS]. Its the sad, unfortunate truth. I'm certainly not saying all women airline pilots got their jobs because they are women - they need skills to pass the ground school, sim and IOE - but to deny the correlation would be foolish wishful thinking.
That having been said, I think Sharon Jones is the HR person in charge of pilot hiring at Comair, so I dunno in this case. I agree it's a raw deal, but there ain't much we, as guys, can do about it in the here and now.
resistance
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- Feb 17, 2003
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- 56
All this is nothing new to airline hiring. I remember in the late 90's when YOnited was the spot to be, so many over-qualified pilots were turned down to hire many, MANY female pilots who were obviously more qualified with a quarter of the flight experience.
Ask some United line pilots the rough estimate of chicks who are professional F/O's due to multiple upgrade failures. (like 150)
I am I pissed off about the hiring practice....yes! But in retrospect I think it saved me from going down the path of no return.
Ask some United line pilots the rough estimate of chicks who are professional F/O's due to multiple upgrade failures. (like 150)
I am I pissed off about the hiring practice....yes! But in retrospect I think it saved me from going down the path of no return.
Riddle momma
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I'm gonna play devil's advocate here, but I agree with all of you. Personally I am a minority chick, but so far, I have not seen one ounce of it! I have applications in with everyone, I even meet the mins!!! Have I gotten a phone call yet? Nope.
But you know what, I really do hate all this silver platter crap. I hate being told, "Oh well you're a girl, they'll totally hire you". To me it's almost insulting. I don't want to be hired for what I am, but for who and what I can do. Maybe I am just being proud and cocky, but still.
I honestly believe that gender and race should be totally ommited and that experience alone should be used in hiring. And a conditional employment!?!? That just sucks! Why couldn't it have been, "when you meet the mins, we'll give you an interview".
Oh well. I guess I am just blowing steam really. Thanks for listening.
RM
But you know what, I really do hate all this silver platter crap. I hate being told, "Oh well you're a girl, they'll totally hire you". To me it's almost insulting. I don't want to be hired for what I am, but for who and what I can do. Maybe I am just being proud and cocky, but still.
I honestly believe that gender and race should be totally ommited and that experience alone should be used in hiring. And a conditional employment!?!? That just sucks! Why couldn't it have been, "when you meet the mins, we'll give you an interview".
Oh well. I guess I am just blowing steam really. Thanks for listening.
RM
KeroseneSnorter
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- Oct 26, 2003
- Posts
- 1,530
Get used to it. Comair's policy seems the norm. If anything the majors are easier for a minority than regionals.
At the major I worked (fill in any name you want, its all the same) Women consistantly got hired with less time than all others. They did meet the minimum quals but were (mostly) interviewed and hired with far less experience than their male counterparts.
During the hiring rush in the late 90's I even had a friend that was recruited by a major. She didn't even have an application in with ANY majors. She flew F/O on a Dash 8 and got a cold call from the HR department. Of course she took the job, I would have too if I were in her place. She never expected it, She was waiting to apply until she had some PIC turbine time.
You have to realize that of all the pilots out there only about 5 % or so is female, and of that number even fewer that hold advanced ratings ie. ATP. So for airlines to hire enough to be PC they have to seek out much lower times. My friend thinks that she was called simply bacause she held an ATP and sombody at the sim center who she met during recurrent training on the Dash passed her name along. her times were in the neighborhood of 2200 tt and 500 turbine SIC. Well below the 5000 average and 1000 PIC turbine that was the norm at my airline at the time.
By the way, she was one of my students when I instructed, now she is 600 numbers senior to me at the major!! But that is the way it works out. So try not to get bent out of shape about it. Its like taxes, nothing you can do.
The unfortunate side effect is that all women are lumped into this group, even the ones that had the time and experience when thay were hired. I used to fly with an excellent Captain and very good pilot who was female. On any given four day trip she would have to endure at least 5 snide comments from passengers. I was a snot nosed new F/O just off IOE but still had pax comeup during boarding with comments like "Oh whew, glad to see a guy up here!" On the other hand I had a female F/O once that had no business flying, I in effect was single pilot for that 3 day trip.
At the major I worked (fill in any name you want, its all the same) Women consistantly got hired with less time than all others. They did meet the minimum quals but were (mostly) interviewed and hired with far less experience than their male counterparts.
During the hiring rush in the late 90's I even had a friend that was recruited by a major. She didn't even have an application in with ANY majors. She flew F/O on a Dash 8 and got a cold call from the HR department. Of course she took the job, I would have too if I were in her place. She never expected it, She was waiting to apply until she had some PIC turbine time.
You have to realize that of all the pilots out there only about 5 % or so is female, and of that number even fewer that hold advanced ratings ie. ATP. So for airlines to hire enough to be PC they have to seek out much lower times. My friend thinks that she was called simply bacause she held an ATP and sombody at the sim center who she met during recurrent training on the Dash passed her name along. her times were in the neighborhood of 2200 tt and 500 turbine SIC. Well below the 5000 average and 1000 PIC turbine that was the norm at my airline at the time.
By the way, she was one of my students when I instructed, now she is 600 numbers senior to me at the major!! But that is the way it works out. So try not to get bent out of shape about it. Its like taxes, nothing you can do.
The unfortunate side effect is that all women are lumped into this group, even the ones that had the time and experience when thay were hired. I used to fly with an excellent Captain and very good pilot who was female. On any given four day trip she would have to endure at least 5 snide comments from passengers. I was a snot nosed new F/O just off IOE but still had pax comeup during boarding with comments like "Oh whew, glad to see a guy up here!" On the other hand I had a female F/O once that had no business flying, I in effect was single pilot for that 3 day trip.
OldManPilot
Senior Member
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2003
- Posts
- 459
When I began flying 16 years ago, my instructor was a woman. She was a fantastic pilot as well as a knowledgeable instructor. Her training was the best and that is why I stayed with her as my instructor from Private to Multi. She now is a CPT. at AA.
The captain I flew with 3 months ago was a woman. Again perhaps one of the most knoweldgeable about the aircraft I have met. She was also an excellent stick and had some great advice on flying the aircraft.
Actually in the past 16 years, every "Professional" female pilot I have met has been great to know and to fly with.
Its a shame that many of them feel they have to know more and fly better than there male counterparts to be excepted. I find spending a month with a woman to be a refreshing change of pace. If you cannot spend a month in the cockpit with a woman and not have anything to talk about, its not her fault, perhaps you are just a bit to shallow.
Try excepting them with an open attitude. I think you could be suprised at how enjoyable they could be to work with.
The captain I flew with 3 months ago was a woman. Again perhaps one of the most knoweldgeable about the aircraft I have met. She was also an excellent stick and had some great advice on flying the aircraft.
Actually in the past 16 years, every "Professional" female pilot I have met has been great to know and to fly with.
Its a shame that many of them feel they have to know more and fly better than there male counterparts to be excepted. I find spending a month with a woman to be a refreshing change of pace. If you cannot spend a month in the cockpit with a woman and not have anything to talk about, its not her fault, perhaps you are just a bit to shallow.
Try excepting them with an open attitude. I think you could be suprised at how enjoyable they could be to work with.
QuietBirdMan
Member
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2002
- Posts
- 23
Wifey hired at european major with 198TT and 40 Twin. Life aint fair.
Oh yes, shes going to the 777 as a second officer/cruise pilot. Autopilot monitoring only. Who cares? I would give my left testicle for that position! Even the bunks have personal TV sets!
If only she had 36Cs then I wouldnt care too much
Regards
Capt and MR Quietbirdman
Oh yes, shes going to the 777 as a second officer/cruise pilot. Autopilot monitoring only. Who cares? I would give my left testicle for that position! Even the bunks have personal TV sets!
If only she had 36Cs then I wouldnt care too much
Regards
Capt and MR Quietbirdman
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