Higher Power or K&S? for Mesaba Guy!

[AvroJockey]

I have scanned this board for several references, and have narrowed it down to K&S or Higher power. Please let me know what you think, especially any ex-Mesaba guys/gals out there!

Additionally, I'm wondering if I sould splurg for the -300 training. I have been flying EFIS for the past 5.5 years, and the Avro RJ85 has the same autopilot, I believe. This would make for an easy transition.

Thanks,
T. Holmes

SEEEEE YAAAAAA!

 

[English]

K&S..small class sizes, much smaller than Higher Power. But, either way you can't go wrong. They both have an excellent reputation.

I heard that K&S is giving a $200 discount for training done over the summer.

Do the -300. The -200 autopilot (if you could call it an autopilot) is basically a control wheel steering device.

 

[srjorion]

I just finished at HPA last week and have absolutely no complaints. Me, personally, would choose HPA again, but good luck wherever you choose to go. You will come out with the same 737 type at either place and I think they both are good choices.

If you choose HPA you can get the -300 for no extra charge, however I think it is non-EFIS but not positive since I did the -200. The one bad thing about the -300 in my class was the schedule was very late in the day. The two people in my class who did the -300 had 11:00 p.m. sim times almost every day. But, if you want it, you would probably have no problem getting the -300 because they were looking for volunteers in my class. I would still stick to the -200 myself, but again, either way you are getting the same 737 type.

Good luck!

srj

 

[Snoopy58]

I don't know how much you'll use the automation during the type course... I don't remember having the autopilot on much at all from when I did it, but I could be wrong. The -300 has an FMS, which is another thing to learn, but again I don't know how much new stuff that would be for you. If all your higher performance experience is in FMS aircraft, the -200 may be more difficult for you -- no drift or groundspeed info on approaches.

As far as SWA is concerned, guys do just fine there having gotten the type in the -200, so I wouldn't spend the extra $ for that aspect of things. If it would make for an easier experience for you getting the type, then very possibly a good investment.

Of course, all SWA -200's will be gone by January, so a -300 IS more like what you'll end up flying if you get on.

Guys say extremely good things about both HPA & K&S, but nobody has been to both to do a side-by-side comparison. I'd strongly doubt you can go wrong either place, and factors like schedule & transportation may end up driving your decision more than any strong reason to prefer one over the other per se.

All the best during your training!

Snoopy

 

[hoya saxa]

K & S plug

Just did the course at K&S in April. My cohorts and I all did the -300 which seemed simpler since the ground-school is all non-EFIS -300 based. We did use the auto-pilot extensively in the sim, with the obvious exceptions of steep turns/stalls and single engine approaches. I thought it was kind of a red-a$$ to learn, but then again the whole concept of telling someone else to monkey with my gear and flaps was bizarre for me. FMS only really came into play during the LOFT period which was all show-and-tell. Not even worth studying about it.

K&S seemed a little overwhelmed with all the business they're getting but they're a great bunch of folks and have some stellar instructors. You really can't go wrong with either place I guess.

 

[splatt]

I just finished up at Higher Power on May 2. There, you can get the 300 at no extra charge with a few more hours of ground school, after your Oral Exam. That's the good news. The bad news is that the 200's auto pilot really sucks... It has seperate manual controls for the flight director's alt hold and pitch commands, the auto pilot has separate heading / steering, pitch and roll and alt hold controls. So, it can be an adventure just engaging it... and it won't engage unless the jet is trimmed hands off. I would have rather trained on the 300.

I also think Higher Power does a great job and everyone there goes out of their way to be helpful. SWA also comes on Friday's to recruit and pass out their latest hiring info.

 

[P3 Tweek]

K&S

I don't have any experience with HPA but I'm sure they're just great as I hear all good about them.
I did my B-737 Type Rating with K&S in August 2003. The -300 ground school in PHX was exceptionally good with Mike Sturgis as the instructor. Sim training in SLC at the FSI (Delta) Training Center. Again, exceptional instructors including Steve Larsen and Merle Hodel.
My decision to go with K&S was based on convenience of working in the two weeks for the type rating into my busy corporate schedule. It wasn't easy but it worked out very well.
K&S was FIRST CLASS!

USN P3 Tweek (ex)

 

[SKYW Pilot]

I've heard great things about Higher Power, but I went to K & S so I gotta go with them. I was very impressed! Great people working there and very knowledgable too!

 

[FatesPawn]

SEEEEE YAAAAAA!

SEEEEE YAAAAAA!


I'm an x-xj dude. Higher Power was top notch. There was another XJ guy in my class as well as the class before us and we all did well. I don't have any comparison info on K&S vs. HP, but I can say that I was VERY pleased with the results that HP provided.

 

[328dude]

I went to HP in March and had a great experience. I did the -300 and it is not EFIS.

In all honesty, I don't think you can go wrong with either establishment. I can vouch for HPA, but K&S is just as good from what I have been told.

Dallas or Phoenix is really your only choice at this point.

 

[LJDRVR]

Go K&S.

Mike Sturgis is easily one of the VERY best instructors I've ever come across. Either place will do a good job, but I was really impressed with Mike.

Good Luck!

 

[Varmint]

K&S was very professional and the instructors were great.

Their PHX 737-200 sim has a -300 autopilot in and no FMS to monkey around with. Differences training, if you choose to fly the -200 was 4 hours of very straightforward material (minimal extra work). Doing the sim in the -200 also saves you $500 bucks.

I third, fourth, and fifth the Mike Sturgis comments. Excellent instructor (he taught the -200 sims for me)

 

[Afterprop]

Got my type in the -300 at HPA in April. Much better choice than the -200 in my opinion for all the above autopilot/flight director issues above . . . and at no extra charge. Extensive use of autopilot except for approach to stalls/SE work/steep turns.

Gotta to give a big, big plug for HPA . . . best learning environment I've seen in a long time. Instructors are very experienced, and are concerned with your performance. Everyone there . . . OK . . . everyone there I personally interacted with was friendly, pleasant, and a joy to be around. They work hard . . . they work you harder ;-), and everyone has fun.

Now waiting and hoping for one of those interview calls . . .

'Luck to all

 

[Midnight Mike]

WOW! Higher Power or K&S, sheesh, both companies offer quality training, there is no wrong choice with this one.

 

[chase]

Consider this....

I believe both K/S & HPA offer quality training. As a caveat I will state I know the owners of HPA personally & use to work there...all of their staff are excellent, none better.

K&S has a great rep also. Highly praised instructors.

So what can make the difference in choosing one over the other?

Being ex-military I'll relate it into those terms:

It's like joining a unique "squadron" that provides you benefits that far exceed a mere type rating. Here is what I'm talking about:

1. A publication that is e-mailed to you every two months that highlights information on hiring trends and announces job openings....yes folks like AirInc do this & others but I'm not aware of other type schools that do this consistently to all graduates.

2. A staff that is 2nd to none in assisting you before & after your type in helping you acqure a position with the airline of your choice.

3. A high-tech staff that are constantly updating their teaching methods to include the use of many tech improvements; CD rom for pre-study lessons, fixed simulator onsite that provides realistic switchology training & system training.

4. Its graduates are made to feel a part of the HPA family & in turn provide a great network of alumin that are willing to help others when it comes to finding jobs...kind of like a squadron or any unique organization affiliation.

As someone you have two good choices, just my thoughts on HPA.

 

[SWA/FO]

HPA classes are bigger and happen more often.

K & S classes are smaller and fill up quicker.
K & S has lodging included in their price.

I went to HPA because of class date. I did not want to wait. I like em a lot.

 

[T1bubba]

I used HPA and highly recommend them. After 1.5 years of pool time and not flying, I went back the week before I started in Dallas and sat in on some of the classes just to refresh my memory. They offer this service to all poolies at no cost regardless of where you got your type rating. Mark and Joe even bought me lunch at the Ballpark (again!).

They also donated an instructor for a sim session with another poolie when the TSA instituted a currency requirement for foreign nationals days before he was to start at SWA (SWA donated the sim time).

The entire organization there is willing to go far out of their way to help you, I can't say enough good things about them.

T1

 

[PTinbound]

Avrojockey, I left XJ 3 months ago to cross over to the other side.
I spent 6 years at Mesaba, over a third of it the "the pool to end all pools" here at SWA. I was never senior enough to hold the Avro in DTW, so I was a dedicated prop guy. But I figured after two engine failures last year (and our "situation" in January) it was time to come on over.
Anyway, to answer your question, the posts so far here are accurate. I've NEVER heard anything bad about K+S, but I can tell you from personal experience that Higher Power was one of the best experiences I've ever had. I've never met ANYONE with a higher standard of integrity than Mark Sterns, who runs HPA. You become part of the Higher Power family for life by going through there, much as you'll become part of the SWA family when you get here. The very fact that you fly a jet now will make the transition to SWA a little easier than it was for me, as I'm still just a little behind the power curve at the 70 hour level on line - just little things, like I have to think about slowing to 250 below 10. In the Saab, we were always below 250. Also, systems groundschool is very fast. A lot of it is prefaced by, "you remember on the -200 it was like this, but on the -300 its like this.
No questions? Good, now on to the electrical system..." If it doesn't cost any extra, it might be slightly easier to take the -300 course, so you will be more familiar with the -300 systems and simulators at SWA. But all of those things are "little rocks". The "Big rocks" are to get your type, somewhere, somehow, as soon as you can and get your stuff in/updated at SWA. Then you can call and pester LL every day (Just kidding). And I'm still waiting to see if those rumors of hiring 650 this year will turn out to be true. Then I can get MDW and bother that arrogant SWA/FO on the way to work...

 

[OttoA6]

Went through HPA back in Dec 2002 and have visited at least twice a year since. Top notch organization, run with the same spirit and attitude as SWA. On top of a great, competitively priced type rating, you get a personal brief each Friday from the SWA People Department.

 

[kelbill]

I too am a HPA grad, back in 1999. Mark Sterns made it clear to come on back whenever you want and let folks know how you were doing. I've only been able to stop by once since then, and hope to do so again soon to shoot the bull with future poolies. I am sure K&S is top knotch, but went to HPA because I heard a lot of good things about it, lived in San Antonio, so I could drive to training, and haven't looked back since without a smile on my face. Great training, extremely friendly and knowledgeable instructors, and you can't beat the PD from SWA coming in to visit from time to time. It is a pep rally when they do, and remotivates you after spending a lot of time and money on only a hope of being hired. I haven't priced around the others, but being that I know I got a great training program with HPA, would hesitate to recommend anyone else. Go with the -300 training if possible, but in reality, unless you start training with SWA soon after getting your type, SWA ground school will get you back up to speed in short order. Good luck, stay motivated, but darn sure still try to have fun.