High school kids

[ttracey60]

One more time, this is the old guy, retired highschool teacher, and pilot.

I realize that this is not a forum on education. However, if you folks will allow me to, I need to respond to a gentleman who posted a response to my original " Airplanes and Kids " posting, wherein he states that the youngster she coaches during the summers are so neat, good, and motivated.

I'm sure they are. Good for him. Those young people are the cream of the crop. He's lucky to be working with them. I'm sure they're there because they want to be. They're the kind of youngsters that make a man proud.

Now, lets examine the other side of that issue. Let that same gentleman teach in a public high school in this state or any other state of his choice. Most of those kids are not there because they want to be. They have to go to school. If they're in special education, our government dictates that they can stay in public school until their 23rd birthday. Are men and women that age children? No they aren't.

Let that guy handle 20 students per hour, seven hours a day that are constantly strung out on narcotics. That have no problem with shooting and stabbing each other at school. That sell narcotics in the hallways and rape students in the bathrooms.
That physically and verbally abuse teaching staff every hour of every day.

Here in New Mexico, that kind of stuff NEVER makes the newspaper. It happens every day in lots of high schools in the state!

How about telling me those kinds of kids were common years ago? I know that guys wrong. I did it for 36 years before I retired.

Combine that with parents who don't care, won't make their little darlings behave, and blame all that crap on teachers. In a meeting a few years back, I had one " Mommy ", who slept with most of the men in town, go so far as to state that not only was it the fault of every teacher her 15 year old demented son ever had, but it was also the doctors fault, that delivered that animal, that he was completely insane. She had even prepared a list of all of us who had ruined her son's personality. The only two people who weren't on it were " Mommy" and " Daddy". Heck, I'm willing to pass the blame along. All those doctors that delivered all those little lunatics are the ones to blame. Leave us old schoolteachers alone.

Throw in school administrators that are afraid to confront parents, won't back their teachers, and will do anything to keep their own jobs - at the expense of everyone else involved.

I grew up in Roswell, New Mexico. When I misbehaved in high school, I got my rear end warmed up, and when my Dad found out about it, I got my rear end busted again.

We don't DARE do that to a high schooler now days. They've all got their civil rights, you know. They also have this thing called a psyche. Can't do anything to damage their psyche. Might damage their personalities for life.

My old Chemistry from my high school days didn't know about psches, but he darned sure knew how to make me shut up and behave with that big oak paddle. I love him to this day. To heck with the psyche.

I, for some strange reason, already knew how to read, write, and perform mathematical calculations before I got to high school. I know, us kids down there in Roswell were just so gifted we knew how to do our school work and no one else in the U.S. knew how. If you believe that, I've also got the Golden Gate Bridge for sale - cheap!!!!!

High schools now are war zones, not schools.

Am I old and burned out?

Yes I am.

I stick by my position. Most kids are not what they were years ago. I doubt that years ago, the high schools, nationwide, were producing graduates that were completely illiterate, in fantastic numbers.

Wake up, buddy, your swim team is NOT typical of high schooler stoday.

 

[pilotyip]

Am I missing something?

is this a misplaced response to another tread,?

 

[uwochris]

More qualified teachers are certainly needed.

However, who wants to teach in those conditions and get paid like $hit? Conditions for new teachers are comparable to those of a new CFI.

 

[avbug]

The poster managed to insult parents, children, teachers, schools, the government, and just about everything else under the sun, in one post. He's burned out and angry at the world. It's all bad.

As a parent with four kids, I don't expect the schools to do the parenting. I submit that I do a darn fine job. My kids aren't murdering, killing, or raping each other or teachers. They do well, they enjoy school. They're in public school. Go figure.

 

[Swass]

Conditions for new teachers are comparable to those of a new CFI.

Are you kidding me? I would love to get paid a year's salary for nine months of work. Holidays off, benefits, etc. Teachers knew what they were getting into when they started, they had to student teach before they got their job; I should know my wife was a teacher. I work with several school districts and have never met any one group (with the exception of Dr.'s) that whines as much about everything.

Thank the teacher's unions.

 

[Citationkid]

We had a teacher pay disscussion in class today and were I go to school they start off at 40K a year and finish off about 100k a year if they have a PHD.

 

[toneal]

A teacher should not be discussing pay with his or her students... and school is not the place for that conversation

 

[pilotyip]

Teachers make out OK on pay

From the time I left the Navy in 1977, I never made more than my school teacher sister until about three years ago, Michigan one of those high paying teacher salary states. I was a high school Chemistry teacher for awhile while I was between jobs, and it is not a bad life style you are done every day at 2:30, get lots of time off. And teachers never get laid off after they have tenure, they have a solid retirement, and great benfits. That is something you will not find in many pilot positions.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

tttracy60,

got news for you bro...New Mexico is a dump.
drunk Indians and rowdy Mexicans.

Quit all your complaining, hookup the trailer, and move if you cant beal with the problems.

99% of us dont live anywhere like you describe.

The world is NOT falling apart, kids are NOT all killing each other, beating up teachers, or selling drugs. I got news for you, kids today are WAY smarter than years ago. They are computer and tech savy. YES, they like things NOW (internet, overnight fedex) but whats so wrong about that??

Oh I know, 17 miles to school in a snowstorm uphill both ways.....yeah... yeah but a SMART kid would rather ride in a cozy Range Rover or just stay home and surf the web..

 

[Badger]

It's the Fu#$ing lawyers.

School administrators are too wrapped up in lawsuit avoidance to care about student interests. Our legal system and the greed of the typical scumbag lawyer has turned many things into a sham from aircraft manufacturing to school administration. The legal profession now specializes in placing a dollar amount on events that have no monetary value and no true negligence.

 

[pilotyip]

Adam Smith

That is what Adam Smith said in "The Wealth of Nations" Clergy and Barristers produce no economic benefit, therefore they are parasites on an Economy. Pretty insightful for a guy in the 1700's

 

[bobbysamd]

Scumbag attorneys and school problems

School administrators are too wrapped up in lawsuit avoidance to care about student interests. Our legal system and the greed of the typical scumbag lawyer has turned many things into a sham from aircraft manufacturing to school administration. The legal profession now specializes in placing a dollar amount on events that have no monetary value and no true negligence.

I take exception in part to this comment.

That's easy for you to say if you are on the outside looking in. I work for a plaintiffs' PI and claimants' Workers Comp lawfirm. We've represented clients who have suffered because of others' negligence. One client, for example, was horribly disfigured in an industrial accident. The person can never be restored to her prior appearance. Someone must be held responsible.

People are injured in automobile accidents and other events which end up invoking insurance companies and their vast resources. While many people are intelligent and sophisticated, they personally lack the knowledge, skill, and authority and resources, to make insurance companies play fair. Attorneys have the ability, authority and resources that people lack to ensure a level playing field.

For that matter, there are plenty of scumbag attorneys who do not obtain full value for their clients' claims. They work-up their clients' files minimally, settle quickly, and force the settlements down their clients' throats. They call themselves litigators, but cannot even find the courthouse. You know who they are; they run ads during Ricki Lake, Jerry Springer, Oprah, perhaps, and on late-night TV. These attorneys merit criticism - but that doesn't mean that you are being forced to use them.

Having said all that, don't blame lawyers for turning school administration into a sham. Blame parents. Parents are to blame for caving in when Johnny whines that teacher sent him to the principal's office. Lawyers merely give parents a voice. Blame parents for undercutting teachers' authority in the classroom and the results thereof.

Those results, of course, include but are not limited to Johnny's inability to read, do simple arithmetic, or get a job. Teacher burnout, too, which is how this discussion started. When I was growing up, our neighbors included a math teacher in our public school system. He was a good teacher (though he couldn't help my math inabilities much). He retired because his authority in the classroom had been stripped over the years. It was a pity, because this man really was a good teacher.

Now, having said all of that, here's an incident from when I was in high school about thirty-five (!) years ago. Long sideburns came back into vogue, as they have again today. Long sideburns violated the school's dress code. There was a kid on the cross-country team who had grown long sideburns. He was told to shave them off. He refused, and was kicked off the team and/or suspended from school. He went to the ACLU. With the ACLU's help, he managed to be reinstated in school and on the cross-country team. This incident made the local news. I do not remember or recall if the kid's parents went to the ACLU or if he went himself.

I'm sure others know of similar incidents. I fix that incident as the beginning, as I know it, of teachers and school administrators being undercut by parents and kids.

 

[WrightAvia]

Lawsuits are the only way to get a government official or government entities attention.

Not all lawsuits are about money. Sometimes you have to sue, to get a public official do his job. There is a latin term for that, I'm sure someone can tell us what it is.

Up in Green Bay, I knew a guy that was part of a group of machinegun buyers that couldn't get the required BATF C.L.E.O. signoff from the Brown County Sherriff. The Certified Law Enforcement Official sign off, is nothing more than a statement from the CLEO to the BATF, that to the best of HIS/HER knowledge, the BATF form applicant is not considered a law enforcement threat. It's just the BATF's way of not leaving the local law enforcement chief out of the loop. A courtesy.

These guys could have gone over the sherriff's head and pursued the CLEO signoff from a supervisor of that State Patrol district, a district attorney, a judge, an local supervising FBI agent and even the BATF will sign off for you at the end, if you cant get the chief or sherriff to sign. But these guys took Leon Piescheck, the Brown County Sherriff, to court and MADE him sign. The term is "writ of mandemus". Serves the Fat Bastard right, he said there wasn't going to be any machineguns in his county. There is no Wisconsin law against it. There was no county ordinance against it. Federal law ALLOWS the possesion of BATF registered machineguns.

So Leon Piescheck was going to make it HIS LAW, that you could not possess an item that was lawfull to possess.

Police are part of the EXECUTIVE branch of government, when they over step their boundries and think they are the LEGISLATIVE branch of government...it's time to sue.

 

[CounterGirl]

Re: Scumbag attorneys and school problems

I take exception in part to this comment.

Having said all that, don't blame lawyers for turning school administration into a sham. Blame parents. Parents are to blame for caving in when Johnny whines that teacher sent him to the principal's office. Lawyers merely give parents a voice. Blame parents for undercutting teachers' authority in the classroom and the results thereof.

Being a brand new teacher, I have a few things to say about this subject. I've been teaching junior high for four weeks now, and let me tell you, there really is a serious problem with kids today. It's called lack of parenting. During a lesson yesterday, I learned that out of a group of 10 students, not ONE had a family that sat down together for dinner. Not ONE could name a hobby of theirs that did not include video games or the computer. When I asked them what they did/played outside, they looked at me like I was insane. Not to mention that I have one student I make sandwiches for every day because her mom doesn't even feed her. Most of them had nothing but nasty things to say about their parents and indicated they spent most of their time alone in their rooms.

This is a broad statement--I know--but it seems as if parents are perfectly content with standing in the background while our latest technology raises the kids. Now, tell me, does being computer saavy develop social skills? And how are parents showing encouragement, love, or acting as a disciplinarian when they don't even have much face to face contact? Are children learning what politeness, patience, and kindness looks like from technology? Absolutely not.

Before you jump to conclusions, no I do not teach at an inner city public school. I have a mix of children from various SES backgrounds. Yet I still witness what the original poster of this thread was talking about. Kids don't have any respect anymore. They talk back and disobey and don't think anything of it. They are LAZY. I've had kids not take notes on en entire lesson because I wouldn't get a pencil for him. I even heard the excuse, "my glasses were dirty so I couldn't see the board."

You guys, I was in junior high only 10 years ago, but even then I never witnessed such blatant disrespect from even the worst kid in my class back then. Nowadays, even getting students to call me Ms. --- is unheard of, they think they can call me by my first name. Oh yeah, they also are very vocal about assignments that are "too much work" (a one page essay: "I can't do it....you can't make me")....no wonder why the state of Arizona has such low performing students. AND THEN, the parents come in and actually back these kids' excuses up! It completely undermines the teacher's ability to get these students to think. As a result, we are no longer allowed to challenge the minds of our youth because the student will whine and then mom and dad complain to the school.

Thankfully, my school backs its teachers; but I know many do not for fear of physco parents. Prime example: this week, a principal in Pheonix was physically assaulted by an irate mom who thought her son wasn't being graded fairly. Yep. Unfortunately, I'm seeing more of these scary parents than "normal" parents. Scary parents=scary kids. I'm not saying all parents are bad--I know that's not true--but the kind of parenting I've been discussing seems to be the norm these days.

It doesn't anger me, it saddens me.

 

[Paladin]

CounterGirl,
I think you hit the nail on the head in your post. A lot of parents nowadays are flat out lazy. Video games, computers and cable TV are the modern day substitute for spending quality time with children. I find it amusing (and very sad) that the percentage of overweight children (and adults) increases every year...Anyone who does not see the correlation between laziness, technology (ie. video games) and the $hit on TV, AND the fact that an alarming percentage of OUR country's children are fat, lazy, and disrespectful, is either wearing rose colored glasses, smoking some really good stuff, or just plain ignorant.

I am a manager at FedEx...today we received a shipment of Dell computers (about 300, due to a government grant) to be delivered to various schools in the county I live in. As a side note, I live in, historically, one of the worst ranked states in the Union for education. We ended up having to go into contingency, so I changed into a uniform and spent 10 hours delivering computers to various elementary and middle schools in Greenville county. I hadn't been in a middle school since I tutored 12-13 yr old kids while in college 8 years ago...I was stunned. It's like an entirely different world. In the time I spent at these schools I heard more disrespectful things come out of the students' mouths than I care to remember...I'm going to work my A$$ of to earn enough money to be able to send my future children to private schools...meanwhile I will do my best to contribute to the (hopefully not futile) cause of improving this nation's public school system...in hopes they might improve enough to reestablish my faith in 'the system'.

I admire the HE!! out of you teachers. Its a tough job...and it takes a special breed of person to be able to handle the things you do on a daily basis. Anyone who disputes this, or downplays the significance of a teacher's job either has no children or has never spent 'REAL' time with a public school educator...just my $.02, take it for what its worth.

Cheers

 

[bobbysamd]

Today's junior high punks are tomorrow's flight students

Kids don't have any respect anymore. They talk back and disobey and don't think anything of it. They are LAZY. I've had kids not take notes on en entire lesson because I wouldn't get a pencil for him. I even heard the excuse, "my glasses were dirty so I couldn't see the board" . . . . [T]hey also are very vocal about assignments that are "too much work" . . . . AND THEN, the parents come in and actually back these kids' excuses up! It completely undermines the teacher's ability to get these students to think. As a result, we are no longer allowed to challenge the minds of our youth because the student will whine and then mom and dad complain to the school . . . .

CFIs, beware! Flight instructors have even less administration backup than public school teachers. Take it from someone who knows.

Good luck with your teaching career, CounterGirl.

 

[CounterGirl]

Paladin and Bobbysamd,

Thanks for the replies. Teaching is tough and the children are definitely different these days, but I still love it and hope that the kids learn something in my classroom about hard work and respect!

About the caution to CFIs: I worked at a flight school after college where there was a program for high school students from a magnet school to learn to fly and get their pp license either their senior or junior year (on taxpayers' dimes). A few of the kids were great and very motivated. Most were among the worst prepared students the CFIs had. Flight plans for their cross country flights were never done, they forgot flight bags at home, didn't study for the oral, etc. Then when they busted their check rides, the parents would come in and scream at the CFIs and blame them for their kids not passing. The kids were never held accountable for their lack of preparedness.

Yes, CFIs, beware......!

 

[Timebuilder]

More people need to talk about what is happening in our schools, since we can clearly see the results of our so-called "progressive" society, and the fruits of the sixties' and seventies' "progressive" thinking.

By placing our faith in our selves, and taking on the responsibility of "making the world a better place", having government enforce "power to the people", starting our own holocaust within "Our Bodies, Ourselves" and arguing as if in "Kramer versus Kramer", we are getting the leadership and social stucture that we deserve.

We have brought this on ourselves. We will not be able to "fix it".

 

[Chas]

Am I missing something?

Don't teachers take the job because they wanna teach children Its like a pro pilot they fly out of enjoyment first benefits second . . Teachers where I live make 80 - 100k a year My school taxres are 4,200 a year! They get summers off weekends off holidays off. In my schiool district they go on field trips to California paid for by the school district and when it even hints at snowing they get a snow day .
One such day we were expecting 10 inches of snow I saw 5 of my local teachers sipping coffee at starbucks needless to say it did not even flurry out Sandra Feldman the leader of the NYC teachers Union makes 250 K ayear crying p[overty for her union I know teaching in NYC is tough but its supposed to be a labor of live right???

 

[Paladin]

Chas,
I hate to come off as an A$$...but, were you by chance educated by these same teachers that you were describing? If so, they definitely did not earn their money. Either that or you just can't spell (or type?) worth a crap. Sorry for the flame, but your lack of proofreading skills left yourself wide open.
Cheers

 

[Gulfstream 200]

UH OH

The spellin' cops back...

How does one spell AZHOLE???

 

[WrightAvia]

The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the Dictionary search box to the right.

Suggestions for azhole:
1. aecial
2. azole
3. ashore
4. eschewal
5. anilinctus
6. actual
7. -aceous
8. Ashur
9. -ation

 

[OtterFO]

This discussion about kids and parents brings up a major peeve of mine.

My current job is police/EMS dispatcher in rural Alaska. I realize that people who call the PD usually need assistance, and aren't at their best. But, at least in my little part of the world the biggest problem seems to be a rash of people not willing to be responsible for themselves or their kids.

A couple of examples:

About two weeks ago I was working a graveyard shift, and through the night I fielded 6 calls from the same person. She reported that her 15 year old daughter was out drinking. Each time she called she informed me of 3 or 4 places where her daughter might be. She also repeated several times that she was "really worried." Each time this lady called, I asked her if she had gone out looking for her daughter. Each time the answer was "No, I don't want to go out." She also sounded sober. This was a pretty busy night for our small department and the three officers I had on duty were on calls nonstop all night. My big problem with this whole thing, was that she felt that the PD should be responsible for taking care of her daughter. Also it was a nice night, warm (by our standards), no rain, no high winds.......

A couple of nights later I received several (I lost count) calls from a male in his early thirties who said that his live-in girl friend and their young daughter had not come home yet, he was afraid the girlfriend was drinking somewhere. He too had a list of a places where she might be, he too was unwilling to go out an look for them. This story has a pi$$ off factor ending. Before this guy even called I had been informed by the local crisis center that the woman and her daughter where hiding out there because the boyfriend had gotten drunk and violent. Later on in the day (after I was off duty) The girlfriend decided that she didn't want to stay at the crisis center and went home. The boyfriend was drunk again and beat the hell out of the daughter.


WHY CANT PEOPLE BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS?????

OK I've had my rant for the evening.

 

[Paladin]

WHY CANT PEOPLE BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS?????

Simple...because all of the 'Bleeding-hearts' have brainwashed the vast majority of this country into believing that everyones' a victim. Its really sad when someone commits a crime and / or is negligent and gets off because the accused was a 'victim' of something in his/her past and couldn't control their actions. The ULTRA-Liberals in this country have created a subculture of mediocrity and laziness within our school systems and removed the cornerstones of discipline and obedience that these children desperately need in elementary school, for example the pledge of allegiance...not to mention the nepotism toward minorities which creates even more laziness (affirmative action)...These ultra-liberals are just as dangerous to the country as the ultra-conservative wackos. The liberal media just chooses not to go there. I'm getting off my soapbox and going to church...
CHEERS

 

[Citationkid]

A teacher should not be discussing pay with his or her students... and school is not the place for that conversation

In that case a pilot shouldn't talk about his pay. He can talk about whatever the he1l he wants to. It was in civics and one of the topics was teacher pay. Can you honestly tell me that you don't know what a pilot gets paid and who told you what a pilot get's paid, another pilot. I don't see any differences b/t the pilot and teacher...........

 

[Citationkid]

tttracy60,

got news for you bro...New Mexico is a dump.
drunk Indians and rowdy Mexicans.

Quit all your complaining, hookup the trailer, and move if you cant beal with the problems.

99% of us dont live anywhere like you describe.

The world is NOT falling apart, kids are NOT all killing each other, beating up teachers, or selling drugs. I got news for you, kids today are WAY smarter than years ago. They are computer and tech savy. YES, they like things NOW (internet, overnight fedex) but whats so wrong about that??

Oh I know, 17 miles to school in a snowstorm uphill both ways.....yeah... yeah but a SMART kid would rather ride in a cozy Range Rover or just stay home and surf the web..

You sure about that. 3 out of 4 kids in my school smoke. Every one I know gets drunk every weekend and then brag about it. We had two riots in our first week, which was only 3 days long, and we have about an arrest daily. There was also a huge fight at the first football game b/t the cops and the miltown gang. So maybe in your area kids aren't falling apart, but down here in Delaware...................

 

[njcapt]

Simple...because all of the 'Bleeding-hearts' have brainwashed the vast majority of this country into believing that everyones' a victim. Its really sad when someone commits a crime and / or is negligent and gets off because the accused was a 'victim' of something in his/her past and couldn't control their actions. The ULTRA-Liberals in this country have created a subculture of mediocrity and laziness within our school systems and removed the cornerstones of discipline and obedience that these children desperately need in elementary school, for example the pledge of allegiance...not to mention the nepotism toward minorities which creates even more laziness (affirmative action)...These ultra-liberals are just as dangerous to the country as the ultra-conservative wackos. The liberal media just chooses not to go there. I'm getting off my soapbox and going to church...
CHEERS

Wow, you can make a direct connection between between pathetic parenting and liberal doctrine. I'm sorry, I see the same erosion of responsibility from fairly conservative parts of society, so I don't buy your assignment of blame. Here's a story that contradicts your political slant from one of the web's conservative e-rags:

townhall.com

What are little girls made of? Not sugar and spice, but fish guts and beer

Kathleen Parker

May 14, 2003

Girls will be girls. Give them a couple of kegs, some pig intestines and a bucket of human feces and, well, stuff happens.

So goes some of the attitude out there passing for commentary following the brutal "powder-puff" melee in which senior high-school girls attacked junior girls during a traditional hazing rite.

By now most have seen the video shot by a bystander to this strange incident. Girls were beaten with fists and buckets, smeared with feces and animal guts, forced to eat raw meat and mud. Five girls were hospitalized, including one with a broken ankle and another with a cut requiring 10 stitches.

Nice.

Apparently the hazing was an exaggerated version of an annual event among female football players at Glenbrook North High School in Northbrook, Ill., a suburb north of Chicago. The younger girls knowingly signed up to be abused, but not physically hurt. Those were the unwritten rules, such as they were.

But rules have a funny way of getting broken, especially when alcohol is present and parents are missing. The "powder-puff" ritual was held in a "secret" place and was lubricated with a couple of kegs of beer that police say may have been procured by parents. One parent also may have helped collect the feces, according to early reports.

It's hard to put a finger on exactly what makes this so disturbing. The fact that girls did this to other girls? That the degree of abuse was so severe? That we see so clearly the fragile barrier between "just folks" and just animals?

Maybe it's all of that, but also something more. The acts of violence are by definition despicable, but we've seen worse. Teen gang members kill each other. Boys with guns shoot their teachers and classmates. Increasing aggression among girls born to a grrrrrl nation has been noted, studied and documented.

No, what's disturbing and frankly creepy about the "powder-puff" implosion is the apparent lack of remorse, empathy or insight -or any of the responses we might expect from well-adjusted, sensitive human beings -either from participants or among observers.

There's something very wrong with this picture, and it may well be us. We see something horrible and don't even recognize it as such. Just another day of Reality TV. Or life imitating art. Or, whatever , as they say. We've become so desensitized by various media's near-constant barrage of coarse, aggressive behavior that we fail to note when something's gone terribly wrong.

Several of the students quoted in a recent Chicago Sun-Times story, for example, said the juniors got what they deserved. Others said girls beating up girls wasn't "news." One jarring quote from a girl involved in the beatings captures the lack of empathy. Noting that one girl needed several stitches in her head, she said something like: "It's not like she's dead."

The churlish feminist angle, best accompanied presumably by a chorus of grunts, snorts and Hooahs, was equally disturbing if somewhat predictable. Chicago Sun-Times columnist Debra Pickett wrote that the powder-puff episode merely demonstrates that girls have learned to play like boys and signals that it's time to stop our hand-wringing about little girls' self-esteem.

Pickett acknowledged that things got out of hand and that the perps deserve punishment, but "they don't deserve to be burned at the stake of tragically troubled girlhood." She dismissed adult concerns as obligatory and arbitrary.

"The girls -both the ones doing the pounding and the ones sitting there and taking it like Marines -looked just as strong, fierce and stupid as any guys ever have." And by this measure, we should be reassured? Will we break out the champagne when a girl totes an automatic weapon to school and levels a playground?

I have never doubted that girls are as capable as boys in most arenas not requiring physical strength, long ago rejected the girl-as-victim lament, and join Pickett in her contempt for hand-wringing. But we part company in rationalizing aggression in girls as somehow reflective of parity with boys.

It is indeed an obligation of adults to be concerned when things go bump in the culture, and grown-ups are clearly absent from the video and possibly some of these girls' lives. What I saw in the film wasn't tough girls taking it like Marines but a complete breakdown of inhibition and all the other painstakingly stitched manners that keep civilization from unraveling.

No one should look forward to the sequel.

Northbrook is one of the most affluent, conservative suburbs of Chicago. Obviously, though, the residents aren't immune to the erosion of morals that I believe is responsible for this kind of activity. Many people rely on religion as a crutch for moral behavior, but I see church doctrine failing in circumstances such as these since the falsely penitent can simply go to church on Saturday or Sunday and consider themselves absolved of all sin. Personally, several of the most egregiously mean spirited acts every directed at me or my family were performed by people who considered themselves devoutly religious. Blaming the weak moral situation in this country on political beliefs is selfish masturbation.

This article was published immediately following the hazing incident. I could have dismissed it as a disturbing aberration, but the actions of the parents in the wake of this incident made me realize that the children were simply acting in the manner in which they were taught. Of the thirty students suspended of expelled because of this incident, at least four had their parents suing the school in state and Federal Court to relax the discipline so their kids could graduate with their class and go to the prom. WTFO? Don't believe me? Here's a link:

http://www.nbc5.com/news/2213682/detail.html

Obviously their sense of morality and ethics are completely f'd up. Trying to paint this as a political failing is not going to work.

 

[flywithastick]

In that case a pilot shouldn't talk about his pay. He can talk about whatever the he1l he wants to. It was in civics and one of the topics was teacher pay. Can you honestly tell me that you don't know what a pilot gets paid and who told you what a pilot get's paid, another pilot. I don't see any differences b/t the pilot and teacher...........

Couple of comments on the subject:

1. CitationKid, I suggest you quit swearing. It doesn't make you sound smarter or more cool. Like it or not, we all know you're 14 or 15 yrs old. Doesn't make a hill of beans diff on an Internet BB, but you'll end up doing it in "real life" one day, and that adult will think less of you.

2. Counter girl makes an excellent pt. Adults, parents both are excelling these days at pushing off their responsibilities. And the leftists/bureaucrats are all too happy to grab ahold of the responsibility and create some program to manage it for you.

3. lawyers are the epitome of a virus on society. They're a parasitic, destructive group that does not fit into free enterprise. If (plaintiffs) lawyers are so helpful, then why is it you almost cannot get solo student pilot insurance for a tailwheel plane that worked just fine for tens of thousands of pilot trainees over the last 60-70 yrs? why did the light GA market get "taxed"/sued into near oblivion in the 80's? Why do lawyers alwats win? What (free enterprise) business sector *always* wins.

4. Last, teachers need to preserve a professional relationship between themselves and their students. You do not ask you boss what he makes in the professional world. You, therefore, do not ask or allow teachers to tell students what they make in the teaching world. Like it or not, their not your buddy, their your boss/teacher.

 

[Paladin]

njcapt,
A very intelligent and well put together post...
I think I need to reemphasize something which I wrote though. I was in no way blaming the demise of the moral and ethical foundation this country was founded upon on liberal doctrine. He!!, I'm NOT a Republican (or a Democrat for that matter). I'm merely laying some blame on the Ultra-liberal, crazy-a$$, political correct police out there who have stripped many of the discipline based activities from our school systems. I agree with you completely as far as your argument is concerned...but I feel that we're compairing apples and oranges. Bad parenting knows no socio-economic boundries. But children spend more time in school than they do with their parents and this is, unfortunately, where many of the kids' values are established. The breakdown is a result of taking discipline out of schools...and this I blame the Ultra-liberal, political correct-nazis for...again, just my $.02.

Cheers

 

[UND84]

Hello
I have not had time to read everyone's posts here but I did read the original. Having just graduated from high school, I have a few comments to add. I am sure that I will be bashed but I have no problem with that. Most teachers in America are doing their jobs. My mom has been a teacher and I know how hard it really is for them to do a job well done. So many people in politics say today that the schools are failing and such due to teachers. That to me is complete garbage. Why are kids screwing up? It starts at the home. The home is everything. Mommy and Daddy is why kids misbehave and swear at their teachers all day with absolutely no respect. And look at society. Parents work more and more to support their families while their kids sit at home on the x box. I am not trying to say the x box is bad or anything. I am just trying to show that society is changing and such. My mom quit teaching because she did not want to put up with the you know what from all the little you know whats. The homelife is the most important part of an education and that is where it starts. Teachers are doing their jobs to the best of their ability most of the time. If kids do not want to be in school, we should not make them. It just makes a distraction for all the kids who want to be there and want to learn on a daily basis. Think of how much money could be spent on other things if less was spent on kids who waste their teachers time. I know I babbled a little too long but I just felt like sharing my opinion.