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High school kids
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bobbysamd
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Scumbag attorneys and school problems
That's easy for you to say if you are on the outside looking in. I work for a plaintiffs' PI and claimants' Workers Comp lawfirm. We've represented clients who have suffered because of others' negligence. One client, for example, was horribly disfigured in an industrial accident. The person can never be restored to her prior appearance. Someone must be held responsible.
People are injured in automobile accidents and other events which end up invoking insurance companies and their vast resources. While many people are intelligent and sophisticated, they personally lack the knowledge, skill, and authority and resources, to make insurance companies play fair. Attorneys have the ability, authority and resources that people lack to ensure a level playing field.
For that matter, there are plenty of scumbag attorneys who do not obtain full value for their clients' claims. They work-up their clients' files minimally, settle quickly, and force the settlements down their clients' throats. They call themselves litigators, but cannot even find the courthouse. You know who they are; they run ads during Ricki Lake, Jerry Springer, Oprah, perhaps, and on late-night TV. These attorneys merit criticism - but that doesn't mean that you are being forced to use them.
Having said all that, don't blame lawyers for turning school administration into a sham. Blame parents. Parents are to blame for caving in when Johnny whines that teacher sent him to the principal's office. Lawyers merely give parents a voice. Blame parents for undercutting teachers' authority in the classroom and the results thereof.
Those results, of course, include but are not limited to Johnny's inability to read, do simple arithmetic, or get a job. Teacher burnout, too, which is how this discussion started. When I was growing up, our neighbors included a math teacher in our public school system. He was a good teacher (though he couldn't help my math inabilities much). He retired because his authority in the classroom had been stripped over the years. It was a pity, because this man really was a good teacher.
Now, having said all of that, here's an incident from when I was in high school about thirty-five (!) years ago. Long sideburns came back into vogue, as they have again today. Long sideburns violated the school's dress code. There was a kid on the cross-country team who had grown long sideburns. He was told to shave them off. He refused, and was kicked off the team and/or suspended from school. He went to the ACLU. With the ACLU's help, he managed to be reinstated in school and on the cross-country team. This incident made the local news. I do not remember or recall if the kid's parents went to the ACLU or if he went himself.
I'm sure others know of similar incidents. I fix that incident as the beginning, as I know it, of teachers and school administrators being undercut by parents and kids.
I take exception in part to this comment.Badger said:
That's easy for you to say if you are on the outside looking in. I work for a plaintiffs' PI and claimants' Workers Comp lawfirm. We've represented clients who have suffered because of others' negligence. One client, for example, was horribly disfigured in an industrial accident. The person can never be restored to her prior appearance. Someone must be held responsible.
People are injured in automobile accidents and other events which end up invoking insurance companies and their vast resources. While many people are intelligent and sophisticated, they personally lack the knowledge, skill, and authority and resources, to make insurance companies play fair. Attorneys have the ability, authority and resources that people lack to ensure a level playing field.
For that matter, there are plenty of scumbag attorneys who do not obtain full value for their clients' claims. They work-up their clients' files minimally, settle quickly, and force the settlements down their clients' throats. They call themselves litigators, but cannot even find the courthouse. You know who they are; they run ads during Ricki Lake, Jerry Springer, Oprah, perhaps, and on late-night TV. These attorneys merit criticism - but that doesn't mean that you are being forced to use them.
Having said all that, don't blame lawyers for turning school administration into a sham. Blame parents. Parents are to blame for caving in when Johnny whines that teacher sent him to the principal's office. Lawyers merely give parents a voice. Blame parents for undercutting teachers' authority in the classroom and the results thereof.
Those results, of course, include but are not limited to Johnny's inability to read, do simple arithmetic, or get a job. Teacher burnout, too, which is how this discussion started. When I was growing up, our neighbors included a math teacher in our public school system. He was a good teacher (though he couldn't help my math inabilities much). He retired because his authority in the classroom had been stripped over the years. It was a pity, because this man really was a good teacher.
Now, having said all of that, here's an incident from when I was in high school about thirty-five (!) years ago. Long sideburns came back into vogue, as they have again today. Long sideburns violated the school's dress code. There was a kid on the cross-country team who had grown long sideburns. He was told to shave them off. He refused, and was kicked off the team and/or suspended from school. He went to the ACLU. With the ACLU's help, he managed to be reinstated in school and on the cross-country team. This incident made the local news. I do not remember or recall if the kid's parents went to the ACLU or if he went himself.
I'm sure others know of similar incidents. I fix that incident as the beginning, as I know it, of teachers and school administrators being undercut by parents and kids.
Last edited:
WrightAvia
Well-known member
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- 1,223
Lawsuits are the only way to get a government official or government entities attention.
Not all lawsuits are about money. Sometimes you have to sue, to get a public official do his job. There is a latin term for that, I'm sure someone can tell us what it is.
Up in Green Bay, I knew a guy that was part of a group of machinegun buyers that couldn't get the required BATF C.L.E.O. signoff from the Brown County Sherriff. The Certified Law Enforcement Official sign off, is nothing more than a statement from the CLEO to the BATF, that to the best of HIS/HER knowledge, the BATF form applicant is not considered a law enforcement threat. It's just the BATF's way of not leaving the local law enforcement chief out of the loop. A courtesy.
These guys could have gone over the sherriff's head and pursued the CLEO signoff from a supervisor of that State Patrol district, a district attorney, a judge, an local supervising FBI agent and even the BATF will sign off for you at the end, if you cant get the chief or sherriff to sign. But these guys took Leon Piescheck, the Brown County Sherriff, to court and MADE him sign. The term is "writ of mandemus". Serves the Fat Bastard right, he said there wasn't going to be any machineguns in his county. There is no Wisconsin law against it. There was no county ordinance against it. Federal law ALLOWS the possesion of BATF registered machineguns.
So Leon Piescheck was going to make it HIS LAW, that you could not possess an item that was lawfull to possess.
Police are part of the EXECUTIVE branch of government, when they over step their boundries and think they are the LEGISLATIVE branch of government...it's time to sue.
Not all lawsuits are about money. Sometimes you have to sue, to get a public official do his job. There is a latin term for that, I'm sure someone can tell us what it is.
Up in Green Bay, I knew a guy that was part of a group of machinegun buyers that couldn't get the required BATF C.L.E.O. signoff from the Brown County Sherriff. The Certified Law Enforcement Official sign off, is nothing more than a statement from the CLEO to the BATF, that to the best of HIS/HER knowledge, the BATF form applicant is not considered a law enforcement threat. It's just the BATF's way of not leaving the local law enforcement chief out of the loop. A courtesy.
These guys could have gone over the sherriff's head and pursued the CLEO signoff from a supervisor of that State Patrol district, a district attorney, a judge, an local supervising FBI agent and even the BATF will sign off for you at the end, if you cant get the chief or sherriff to sign. But these guys took Leon Piescheck, the Brown County Sherriff, to court and MADE him sign. The term is "writ of mandemus". Serves the Fat Bastard right, he said there wasn't going to be any machineguns in his county. There is no Wisconsin law against it. There was no county ordinance against it. Federal law ALLOWS the possesion of BATF registered machineguns.
So Leon Piescheck was going to make it HIS LAW, that you could not possess an item that was lawfull to possess.
Police are part of the EXECUTIVE branch of government, when they over step their boundries and think they are the LEGISLATIVE branch of government...it's time to sue.
Last edited:
CounterGirl
Go CATS!
- Joined
- May 8, 2003
- Posts
- 25
Re: Scumbag attorneys and school problems
Being a brand new teacher, I have a few things to say about this subject. I've been teaching junior high for four weeks now, and let me tell you, there really is a serious problem with kids today. It's called lack of parenting. During a lesson yesterday, I learned that out of a group of 10 students, not ONE had a family that sat down together for dinner. Not ONE could name a hobby of theirs that did not include video games or the computer. When I asked them what they did/played outside, they looked at me like I was insane. Not to mention that I have one student I make sandwiches for every day because her mom doesn't even feed her. Most of them had nothing but nasty things to say about their parents and indicated they spent most of their time alone in their rooms.
This is a broad statement--I know--but it seems as if parents are perfectly content with standing in the background while our latest technology raises the kids. Now, tell me, does being computer saavy develop social skills? And how are parents showing encouragement, love, or acting as a disciplinarian when they don't even have much face to face contact? Are children learning what politeness, patience, and kindness looks like from technology? Absolutely not.
Before you jump to conclusions, no I do not teach at an inner city public school. I have a mix of children from various SES backgrounds. Yet I still witness what the original poster of this thread was talking about. Kids don't have any respect anymore. They talk back and disobey and don't think anything of it. They are LAZY. I've had kids not take notes on en entire lesson because I wouldn't get a pencil for him. I even heard the excuse, "my glasses were dirty so I couldn't see the board."
You guys, I was in junior high only 10 years ago, but even then I never witnessed such blatant disrespect from even the worst kid in my class back then. Nowadays, even getting students to call me Ms. --- is unheard of, they think they can call me by my first name. Oh yeah, they also are very vocal about assignments that are "too much work" (a one page essay: "I can't do it....you can't make me")....no wonder why the state of Arizona has such low performing students. AND THEN, the parents come in and actually back these kids' excuses up! It completely undermines the teacher's ability to get these students to think. As a result, we are no longer allowed to challenge the minds of our youth because the student will whine and then mom and dad complain to the school.
Thankfully, my school backs its teachers; but I know many do not for fear of physco parents. Prime example: this week, a principal in Pheonix was physically assaulted by an irate mom who thought her son wasn't being graded fairly. Yep. Unfortunately, I'm seeing more of these scary parents than "normal" parents. Scary parents=scary kids. I'm not saying all parents are bad--I know that's not true--but the kind of parenting I've been discussing seems to be the norm these days.
It doesn't anger me, it saddens me.
bobbysamd said:
Being a brand new teacher, I have a few things to say about this subject. I've been teaching junior high for four weeks now, and let me tell you, there really is a serious problem with kids today. It's called lack of parenting. During a lesson yesterday, I learned that out of a group of 10 students, not ONE had a family that sat down together for dinner. Not ONE could name a hobby of theirs that did not include video games or the computer. When I asked them what they did/played outside, they looked at me like I was insane. Not to mention that I have one student I make sandwiches for every day because her mom doesn't even feed her. Most of them had nothing but nasty things to say about their parents and indicated they spent most of their time alone in their rooms.
This is a broad statement--I know--but it seems as if parents are perfectly content with standing in the background while our latest technology raises the kids. Now, tell me, does being computer saavy develop social skills? And how are parents showing encouragement, love, or acting as a disciplinarian when they don't even have much face to face contact? Are children learning what politeness, patience, and kindness looks like from technology? Absolutely not.
Before you jump to conclusions, no I do not teach at an inner city public school. I have a mix of children from various SES backgrounds. Yet I still witness what the original poster of this thread was talking about. Kids don't have any respect anymore. They talk back and disobey and don't think anything of it. They are LAZY. I've had kids not take notes on en entire lesson because I wouldn't get a pencil for him. I even heard the excuse, "my glasses were dirty so I couldn't see the board."
You guys, I was in junior high only 10 years ago, but even then I never witnessed such blatant disrespect from even the worst kid in my class back then. Nowadays, even getting students to call me Ms. --- is unheard of, they think they can call me by my first name. Oh yeah, they also are very vocal about assignments that are "too much work" (a one page essay: "I can't do it....you can't make me")....no wonder why the state of Arizona has such low performing students. AND THEN, the parents come in and actually back these kids' excuses up! It completely undermines the teacher's ability to get these students to think. As a result, we are no longer allowed to challenge the minds of our youth because the student will whine and then mom and dad complain to the school.
Thankfully, my school backs its teachers; but I know many do not for fear of physco parents. Prime example: this week, a principal in Pheonix was physically assaulted by an irate mom who thought her son wasn't being graded fairly. Yep. Unfortunately, I'm seeing more of these scary parents than "normal" parents. Scary parents=scary kids. I'm not saying all parents are bad--I know that's not true--but the kind of parenting I've been discussing seems to be the norm these days.
It doesn't anger me, it saddens me.
Paladin
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CounterGirl,
I think you hit the nail on the head in your post. A lot of parents nowadays are flat out lazy. Video games, computers and cable TV are the modern day substitute for spending quality time with children. I find it amusing (and very sad) that the percentage of overweight children (and adults) increases every year...Anyone who does not see the correlation between laziness, technology (ie. video games) and the $hit on TV, AND the fact that an alarming percentage of OUR country's children are fat, lazy, and disrespectful, is either wearing rose colored glasses, smoking some really good stuff, or just plain ignorant.
I am a manager at FedEx...today we received a shipment of Dell computers (about 300, due to a government grant) to be delivered to various schools in the county I live in. As a side note, I live in, historically, one of the worst ranked states in the Union for education. We ended up having to go into contingency, so I changed into a uniform and spent 10 hours delivering computers to various elementary and middle schools in Greenville county. I hadn't been in a middle school since I tutored 12-13 yr old kids while in college 8 years ago...I was stunned. It's like an entirely different world. In the time I spent at these schools I heard more disrespectful things come out of the students' mouths than I care to remember...I'm going to work my A$$ of to earn enough money to be able to send my future children to private schools...meanwhile I will do my best to contribute to the (hopefully not futile) cause of improving this nation's public school system...in hopes they might improve enough to reestablish my faith in 'the system'.
I admire the HE!! out of you teachers. Its a tough job...and it takes a special breed of person to be able to handle the things you do on a daily basis. Anyone who disputes this, or downplays the significance of a teacher's job either has no children or has never spent 'REAL' time with a public school educator...just my $.02, take it for what its worth.
Cheers
I think you hit the nail on the head in your post. A lot of parents nowadays are flat out lazy. Video games, computers and cable TV are the modern day substitute for spending quality time with children. I find it amusing (and very sad) that the percentage of overweight children (and adults) increases every year...Anyone who does not see the correlation between laziness, technology (ie. video games) and the $hit on TV, AND the fact that an alarming percentage of OUR country's children are fat, lazy, and disrespectful, is either wearing rose colored glasses, smoking some really good stuff, or just plain ignorant.
I am a manager at FedEx...today we received a shipment of Dell computers (about 300, due to a government grant) to be delivered to various schools in the county I live in. As a side note, I live in, historically, one of the worst ranked states in the Union for education. We ended up having to go into contingency, so I changed into a uniform and spent 10 hours delivering computers to various elementary and middle schools in Greenville county. I hadn't been in a middle school since I tutored 12-13 yr old kids while in college 8 years ago...I was stunned. It's like an entirely different world. In the time I spent at these schools I heard more disrespectful things come out of the students' mouths than I care to remember...I'm going to work my A$$ of to earn enough money to be able to send my future children to private schools...meanwhile I will do my best to contribute to the (hopefully not futile) cause of improving this nation's public school system...in hopes they might improve enough to reestablish my faith in 'the system'.
I admire the HE!! out of you teachers. Its a tough job...and it takes a special breed of person to be able to handle the things you do on a daily basis. Anyone who disputes this, or downplays the significance of a teacher's job either has no children or has never spent 'REAL' time with a public school educator...just my $.02, take it for what its worth.
Cheers
Last edited:
bobbysamd
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CounterGirl
Go CATS!
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Paladin and Bobbysamd,
Thanks for the replies. Teaching is tough and the children are definitely different these days, but I still love it and hope that the kids learn something in my classroom about hard work and respect!
About the caution to CFIs: I worked at a flight school after college where there was a program for high school students from a magnet school to learn to fly and get their pp license either their senior or junior year (on taxpayers' dimes). A few of the kids were great and very motivated. Most were among the worst prepared students the CFIs had. Flight plans for their cross country flights were never done, they forgot flight bags at home, didn't study for the oral, etc. Then when they busted their check rides, the parents would come in and scream at the CFIs and blame them for their kids not passing. The kids were never held accountable for their lack of preparedness.
Yes, CFIs, beware......!
Thanks for the replies. Teaching is tough and the children are definitely different these days, but I still love it and hope that the kids learn something in my classroom about hard work and respect!
About the caution to CFIs: I worked at a flight school after college where there was a program for high school students from a magnet school to learn to fly and get their pp license either their senior or junior year (on taxpayers' dimes). A few of the kids were great and very motivated. Most were among the worst prepared students the CFIs had. Flight plans for their cross country flights were never done, they forgot flight bags at home, didn't study for the oral, etc. Then when they busted their check rides, the parents would come in and scream at the CFIs and blame them for their kids not passing. The kids were never held accountable for their lack of preparedness.
Yes, CFIs, beware......!
Timebuilder
Entrepreneur
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- 4,625
More people need to talk about what is happening in our schools, since we can clearly see the results of our so-called "progressive" society, and the fruits of the sixties' and seventies' "progressive" thinking.
By placing our faith in our selves, and taking on the responsibility of "making the world a better place", having government enforce "power to the people", starting our own holocaust within "Our Bodies, Ourselves" and arguing as if in "Kramer versus Kramer", we are getting the leadership and social stucture that we deserve.
We have brought this on ourselves. We will not be able to "fix it".
By placing our faith in our selves, and taking on the responsibility of "making the world a better place", having government enforce "power to the people", starting our own holocaust within "Our Bodies, Ourselves" and arguing as if in "Kramer versus Kramer", we are getting the leadership and social stucture that we deserve.
We have brought this on ourselves. We will not be able to "fix it".
C
Chas
Am I missing something?
Don't teachers take the job because they wanna teach children Its like a pro pilot they fly out of enjoyment first benefits second . . Teachers where I live make 80 - 100k a year My school taxres are 4,200 a year! They get summers off weekends off holidays off. In my schiool district they go on field trips to California paid for by the school district and when it even hints at snowing they get a snow day .
One such day we were expecting 10 inches of snow I saw 5 of my local teachers sipping coffee at starbucks needless to say it did not even flurry out Sandra Feldman the leader of the NYC teachers Union makes 250 K ayear crying p[overty for her union I know teaching in NYC is tough but its supposed to be a labor of live right???
Don't teachers take the job because they wanna teach children Its like a pro pilot they fly out of enjoyment first benefits second . . Teachers where I live make 80 - 100k a year My school taxres are 4,200 a year! They get summers off weekends off holidays off. In my schiool district they go on field trips to California paid for by the school district and when it even hints at snowing they get a snow day .
One such day we were expecting 10 inches of snow I saw 5 of my local teachers sipping coffee at starbucks needless to say it did not even flurry out Sandra Feldman the leader of the NYC teachers Union makes 250 K ayear crying p[overty for her union I know teaching in NYC is tough but its supposed to be a labor of live right???
Paladin
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Chas,
I hate to come off as an A$$...but, were you by chance educated by these same teachers that you were describing? If so, they definitely did not earn their money. Either that or you just can't spell (or type?) worth a crap. Sorry for the flame, but your lack of proofreading skills left yourself wide open.
Cheers
I hate to come off as an A$$...but, were you by chance educated by these same teachers that you were describing? If so, they definitely did not earn their money. Either that or you just can't spell (or type?) worth a crap. Sorry for the flame, but your lack of proofreading skills left yourself wide open.
Cheers
Last edited:
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