Hey all you PFTers!

[FR8mastr]

I already made my arguement......

You can't control it. It is not illegal or unethical. You may not like it.... we live in a competitive economy.

I guess you are serious, I just hope someone just like yourself doesnt put you on the street.

Why don't you focus your energy on something you can control and influence and make your immediate world a bit better.... but this is you pet issue. So is this it? Moniker message board mantra? That is your solution to PFT?
NO its not that simple, but if it makes you feel any better go with it

The problem is guys who think like you create a bias and conciet and you snub your fellow pilots who you think are not worthy...

It has nothing to do with who is worthy, it has everything to do with trying to bring back in some small way a once proud profession and union.

Your fellow pilot is your fellow pilot. Once we get hired we are all the same...

In the eyes of the company yes, and as long as the rest of us know what you are willing to do to further your career we can watch our backs, less our fellow pilot shove a knife in it.

as a side note I notice you have a strong union mantra on the bottom of your posts about sticking together for the greater good. What gives with that?

 

[PCL_128]

Easy its two fold. First by these individuals shelling out 10Gs or more to get a job, company "A" did not have to pay a pilot any money. this in turn caused company "B" to decrease their wages or start charging their own employees in order to compete. This over the course of the last 15 years has been the major reason our pay is so low, expecially at the regional level. But not to be forgotten the majors have felt the "our pilots will work for less" crap, and have had major outsourcing to the lowest bidder.

On this point, we agree...

2nd These same individuals will do it again, they will undercut you in a freakin heartbeat, because they are only 1/2 step from being a scab. IF this industry ever recovers enough to again have a picket line, Look for all these same pilots to be the first ones to cross, because hey "I am just trying to get a leg up" or " Hey I can make Captain faster this way, and besides I didnt start the strike its just a free market ."

But here is where we part ways. Your assumptions about PFTers are completely off base. You may be right about a small hand full of PFTers, but that's it. Most PFTers nowadays are just kids that don't know any better and buy into the marketing gimmicks that these places use. After a year or two in the industry, these guys realize how things really work and become functioning union members and volunteers just like everyone else. Attacking ignorant kids that simply didn't know any better when they threw down $25k accomplishes nothing.

 

[FR8mastr]

On this point, we agree...



But here is where we part ways. Your assumptions about PFTers are completely off base. You may be right about a small hand full of PFTers, but that's it. Most PFTers nowadays are just kids that don't know any better and buy into the marketing gimmicks that these places use. After a year or two in the industry, these guys realize how things really work and become functioning union members and volunteers just like everyone else. Attacking ignorant kids that simply didn't know any better when they threw down $25k accomplishes nothing.

I hope you are correct, I really do. However some seem very proud of that decision, and go to any length to justify it. I have only read one post that said, " I didnt know any better" I havent attacked anyone personally, all my ranting is in hopes that when PFT raises its ugly head in the future, somebody that might not have known better, will.

 

[PCL_128]

I hope you are correct, I really do. However some seem very proud of that decision, and go to any length to justify it. I have only read one post that said, " I didnt know any better"

This is simply human nature. When someone is criticized by others for something they did out of ignorance, their gut instinct reaction is to defend themselves even when they realize they were wrong. They don't want to admit they screwed up. That's why the PFT attacks on this board and others are merely counterproductive. The PFTers become entrenched in defending themselves because they don't like being attacked for something they didn't know was wrong, and the prospective PFTers view it as all a bunch of ridiculous noise and don't know which side to believe. If everybody would stop the pointless attacks then maybe some progress could be made on ending this practice. The way to fix the PFT problem is to educate, not to attack. We need ALPA reps in the colleges and flight schools talking to the FNGs about this stuff. What we don't need are a bunch of angry pilots yelling at each other on message boards.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

In the eyes of the company yes, and as long as the rest of us know what you are willing to do to further your career we can watch our backs, less our fellow pilot shove a knife in it.

Being competitive is stabing a fellow pilot in the back? Again... this is america.. I've taken it upon my self to take other training courses that will make my resume a bit more competititve. So yes.. when I do go to an interview and I get the job over you... That is stabbing a fellow pilot in the back? In school should I get 'C' grades so I don't stab another pilot in the back.

I don't necessarily care for PFT. I was willing to do it in the late 90's after flying Part 135 freight and pax. But I didn't have to...

How about ERAU and UND and other puppy pilot colleges. I didn't go there either... I went to the FBO and took on Part 91 jobs, then 135 then finally 121. I got a non aviation degree. But all these kids fork out 10s of thousands of dollars to be on the ERAU flight demo team so they can make gay Top Gun video's. A Pilot doesn't need a ERAU or UND degree or a degree at all. So if you are going to attack PFT then attack ERAU and UND guys too...becuase it is the same thing!!!

as a side note I notice you have a strong union mantra on the bottom of your posts about sticking together for the greater good. What gives with that?

Again.. I will explain it to you....

You are trying to control market forces. Unions do not control hiring, qualification standards, or interview criteria. Here is an old manta "Air Line Pilots Do Not Run Airlines!" They only have influence once pilots become hired. Thus the "issues we are having". PCL128 has an excellent perspective. He went to GIA and now wants ALPA to go to the univeristies and educate. (He'll actually do the work instead of whining that "ALPA" should do it...) Like a recovering crack whore....he wants to go to the schools and tell girls...oops..bad analogy....

He has the experience and view to change all that. Keep in mind though, if ALPA went to UND or Riddle and said ...'GIA is bad'... I'll bet GIA would have something to say.... One has to be careful and responsible...

See.. its not that easy to fix. Sure you think its easy to get on this board and spew hate thinking it solve problems..... all you do is create divisivness...all while we fly the line...

 

[spacecadet1]

Anyone who chooses this job now is doing it because they simply don't have the brains to do anything else.

 

[Whydoitry]

Anyone who chooses this job now is doing it because they simply don't have the brains to do anything else.

I sure hope that was not serious.

As Mr. ROL has stated PFT is/was driven by market forces. I know this first hand because I hired pilots and was there (meaning in the room with the people who actually made the decision) when we went from PFT to pay to train. There simply were not enough pilots applying to fill the classes we had. So PFT went away but there were no benefits or pay while in training. Then we offered hotels, shared rooms, then we offered single rooms and per diem while in training. Then 9/11. Hiring stopped, furloughes began. Growth came to the regionals as majors shifted flying to smaller aircraft due to a reduction in passenger demand from 9/11. Time passed and people began to fly, majors already cut their contracts and gave away scope. That also lead to growth at regionals. All airline load factors reached record highes (80%+) and retirements can't be stopped so now the majors are once again hiring resulting in a shortage at the regionals. Student pilot cert. apps are the lowest in history and now we are at the other extreme where airlines both regional and major will soon be paying people to become pilots.

Supply and demand.

The backbone of conservative(Republican) philosophy.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Supply and demand.

The backbone of conservative(Republican) philosophy.

Air Line Pilots love the GOP... the very political party that treats Air Line Pilots like disposable batteries....


Hey PFT Haters..... address this...

Regional to get an ATP
When you get hired as a FO with a regional at what point do you get to do an ATP checkride?

I was thinking (yes I know this is "wrong") of trying to get hired by a regional, going through training to get the type rating and an ATP and then quitting.

I've got over 1500 hours and a few hundred multi so I think I could get hired easily.

Suggestion on how to make this work. I'd have about 6 weeks I could devote full time to the new 'job'