Here we go LUV!!!

[waveflyer]

the contracts weren't the problem- they'll be back-- it's that pilot's got it in their head that it was more important to save management from themselves by voting in HUGE concessions to save the company than to keep the $$. That is was better to be paid less than to have to start over.

IT'S NOT.

B/c all of us are in the same situation we were-- management is richer, we are poorer w/ worse schedules- but the companies are now just as close to bk as before- still getting their butts kicked by wn- all you did was give yourself 7 more years, but at a reduced rate and QOL.

Can you say.... "DUPED" ?

There is something worse than a furlough and worse than starting over after a ch. 7--- we are living it right now.

 

[Cobra17]

More pay for being less productive? Sounds like a sustainable business model...especially in a softening economy with higher oil prices.

 

[Whataburger]

Just flew with a guy who was hired here in '99 and at UAL. When he finished IOE as an FO he got his classdate with UAL. He thought long and hard about what to do. He chose to stay here. So, this second tier airline has been very good to him vs. what he would have endured at UAL.
Chris Farley and me......DOWN BY THE RIVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Whataburger]

Just calling it like it was. Back in the 1995-2001 area, legacy carriers had the best pay, work rules, and QOL. SWA were used and abused, and required a type rating to get hired. I'm calling it like it was back then: most pilots considered SWA a 'second' tier carrier. No retirement plan was a biggie. And this was back when the legacy carriers had top notch retirement plans.

Now of course, the post 9/11 world is different. Legacies took paycuts. HUGE cuts. And, their average flying went up from 65-75 hrs of flying, to that on par with SWA or regionals: 80-90+ hrs. QOL dropped, pay dropped, retirements disappeared.

Babe Ruth made in a season what guys these days make in less than an inning. Is he a sell-out?

 

[waveflyer]

More pay for being less productive? Sounds like a sustainable business model...especially in a softening economy with higher oil prices.

Be careful.

I'm a fan of productivity and WN. But productivity is a relative thing. Compare your contract w/ many regionals and you might not be considered all that "productive" either.

 

[JohnQ]

the contracts weren't the problem- they'll be back-- it's that pilot's got it in their head that it was more important to save management from themselves by voting in HUGE concessions to save the company than to keep the $$. That is was better to be paid less than to have to start over.

IT'S NOT.

B/c all of us are in the same situation we were-- management is richer, we are poorer w/ worse schedules- but the companies are now just as close to bk as before- still getting their butts kicked by wn- all you did was give yourself 7 more years, but at a reduced rate and QOL.

Can you say.... "DUPED" ?

There is something worse than a furlough and worse than starting over after a ch. 7--- we are living it right now.

And naturally, you were the first to submit your letter of resignation, because you just couldn't abide the thought of being part of the process that led to any airline pilots anywhere agreeing to one cent worth of concessions.

Right....? If not, spare us your lecturing.

 

[waveflyer]

I wasn't at my airline when concessions were voted in.

You voted to give small jet flying to my previous airline though-- extending my "regional" career in the hopes of extending your major airline career. So i wouldn't lecture me if i were you.

Bottom line=-learn the lesson: you got your pensions raped and cut your pay in half and it's still not enough to avoid bad management bringing your company to bankruptcy. You bailed them out-- now you don't get paid enough collectively to bail them out again. How do you feel about that?

 

[Chest Rockwell]

Just calling it like it was. Back in the 1995-2001 area, legacy carriers had the best pay, work rules, and QOL. SWA were used and abused, and required a type rating to get hired. I'm calling it like it was back then: most pilots considered SWA a 'second' tier carrier. No retirement plan was a biggie. And this was back when the legacy carriers had top notch retirement plans.

Now of course, the post 9/11 world is different. Legacies took paycuts. HUGE cuts. And, their average flying went up from 65-75 hrs of flying, to that on par with SWA or regionals: 80-90+ hrs. QOL dropped, pay dropped, retirements disappeared.

I was here (SWA 95-01) and never considered giong elsewhere. Never felt abused and was happy with the pay. Averaged 75-80 hours a month.

 

[JohnQ]

I wasn't at my airline when concessions were voted in.

You voted to give small jet flying to my previous airline though-- extending my "regional" career in the hopes of extending your major airline career. So i wouldn't lecture me if i were you.

Bottom line=-learn the lesson: you got your pensions raped and cut your pay in half and it's still not enough to avoid bad management bringing your company to bankruptcy. You bailed them out-- now you don't get paid enough collectively to bail them out again. How do you feel about that?

No one likes concessions, but they are sometimes an unfortunate reality of the airline biz...just as sometimes management pays a 777 captain $319/hr, like they did a few years ago at DAL--and I can assure you that among the mgmt types, those pay rates were a "concession" on their part.

I actually know of two or three former DAL guys who DID resign to go onto other things. But they are very few.

I somehow suspect that if you were at DAL during our concessionary agreements that you would not have been one of those two or three.

 

[pipejockey]

No one likes concessions, but they are sometimes an unfortunate reality of the airline biz...

Fair enough. But when do you say ENOUGH is ENOUGH!! I mean it has been 7 years under concessions, and the leaches(mgmt) are coming for more. How can you justify that? Fool me once, shame on you!! Fool me twice, shame on me!! We helped the leaches(mgmt) 7 years ago, now they it's their turn to figure out how to earn a profit, with current oil prices. To me it's very simple, you charge a price for your product and services that allows for a fair profit.

It's really difficult for me to believe, with the massive loads we are having, in the midst of a very lackluster economy, that prices can't raised. As if they were to raise prices, all of a sudden our planes would be empty. The leaches are pi**ing on our legs and telling us it's only raining.