Help a furloughed pilot decide please

[BenderGonzales]

I don't know. I've never worked for a fractional. After 11 years at the airlines i'm at a corporation where, last year, I spent a grand total of 6 nights away from my own bed (not including recurrent).

Do I miss the big comfortable cockpit? You bet. But not much else.

 

[Swaayze]

Im going to be honest because it will not help me or you if you come here. It would slow down my upgrade and you would be stuck in a J4J hell for a year and a half min if not longer.

Good Luck,

Thanks for the insight. I'm fully aware of the withholding (by contract they can withhold for the first 12 mos or 9 mos after recall, whichever is later, but we'd be pay and benefit protected to LCC compensation) and I'd fully expect to be pretty much number last for the whole time on reserve and commuting from DFW. That's why it's such a tough call to make; is it really worth all the crap just for logging the PIC and banking an extra $700-800/mo?.

 

[Swaayze]

I don't know. I've never worked for a fractional. After 11 years at the airlines i'm at a corporation where, last year, I spent a grand total of 6 nights away from my own bed (not including recurrent).

Do I miss the big comfortable cockpit? You bet. But not much else.

And yet you had to think about bypassing. Ridiculous the scenarios we have to play through our head to try and get it right! I don't think anyone reading this thread can really understand without being in a similar situation. I always heard furloughs were tough and thought, yeah probably but big deal, move on. Then when it happens it hits you like a ton 'o bricks and you question everything you've ever done and second guess every choice you make. Waaaaaa. Crying over. Open that Fort Worth arm of your dept so I can escape this airline junk already!

 

[AA717driver]

Now, I see you're talking about eventually working for AA, SWA or CAL for their TX bases.

Unless things bust wide open at AA, you won't hold DFW for a long time (a year or more?). It's even worse at SWA and you are not exactly at the front end of the hiring boom at CAL.

Count on commuting to a base outside of TX at whatever major you get hired at (IF you get hired there...) for a year or more. Plus, if you get hired at the end of the boom, you won't see DFW for a LONG time.

Unless you live in the N.E. or Florida, you're gonna commute while you are junior. Then, you are gonna commute again when you upgrade. Good luck. TC

 

[BenderGonzales]

So here's a question. If we bypass this time (and recalls went down to around April 99) will they send US (those who bypassed) another letter each time a new bid comes out?

 

[Turtle21]

So here's a question. If we bypass this time (and recalls went down to around April 99) will they send US (those who bypassed) another letter each time a new bid comes out?

I think the company doesn't plan on another letter. (Big surprise at how they are not following the contract procedures for recall)

Call Charmane and tell her you want to pass right now but want to be notified of following recall opportunities as the come up...

 

[CaptainChris77]

Stay put, apply to NetJets. When you get the job, you won't have to commute and you'll be bringing home $100K within five years.

Best advice yet!

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

FlexJet has a DFW base, too. Basic math. 4/3 is 6 days off in 14. 7/7 is 7 days off in 14, which is MORE time with the FAMILY. AND, when u get 2 weeks of vacation, like NetJEts, it turns into 2 3 WEEK vacations/year. Awesome! Also, the 7/7 schedule goes on forever, so you can plan out all your stuff ahead of time. It won't take long for everyone to get used to being gone 7 days in a row, and the 7 at home is great. It will take quite a while to get 15/15.5 days off/month when u go to another airline.

With your family living in DAL, and it being so important. It seems like a no-brainer. Gemini/World are out, because even though u have home basing, you're gone up to 17 days in a row, or longer.

cliff
YIP
PS-I thought Chatauqua was BETTER than Eagle? Be glad you're not at TSA!

 

[Lear70]

I say again, avoid Flexjet like the plague until management changes (was such a GREAT place before the current management team came in and screwed it up for everyone).

Where can you get 15+ days off? AirTran. 15-16 days off with 95-100+ hours credit since my first month of reserve. 8 months of reserve including my first build-up month after IOE. Now holding 18-20 days off on about 75-80 hours of credit. Still in my first year.

LOTS of better places to work than Flexjet; Netjets included.

No offense to Flex guys, but my QOL is so much better now, I can't imagine going back to ANY fractional except maybe NJA and that only if something happened to AAI.

 

[whymeworry?]

1) Consider the NetJet or similar operation as an option. Some corporate gigs give you plenty of quality time with the family. I had a great time flying corporate charter.

2) Apply to CAL. For some reason PIC is no longer a priority there. Lots of growth over the next 4-5 years, plenty of retirements, and you could get based in IAH in a reasonable amount of time. Live in Montgomery County and its only 3 hrs to Dallas.

3) I would blow off the PIC opportunities if it means severely sacraficing the family. But if you can move the family to where you will be based, having PIC will probably pay off more in the long run of your career plus make you marketable overseas if you ever choose that option. Definately do not commute to reserve and definately do not give up your family time with your kids. If you move to Rep to fly the 170, you've got to bring your family with you.

4) Blow off LCC as long as you can but don't give up your number. $46/hr is abysmal. Hopefully you can stall a few more years and perhpas move into a better position (737 or 757 F/O etc) when they get to your name on the second round.

5) Leave the business. Hey, I know it sounds stupid but there is indeed life after the airlines. I have plenty of friends who have left the biz altogether after all the BS managements pulled over the last 5 yrs. They all love their new life and each one is making a lot more money than when they were flying.

6) DO NOT stay at Eagle forever. I'm sure, to you, they seem like a good airline but their mgmt sucks and the APA has screwed your ALPA pilot group too many times to have much hope for life improving. Plus flying a SLOB or an RJ for the rest of your life will get old and limit your career choices if AMR ever decides to spin off Eagle.


Sorry to hear about your misfortunate career thus far but remember, you have another 20 years and a lot can happen in that time. I wouldn't bet on the AGE-60 rule changing any time soon so don't base your decisions on that just yet. The pro-65 crowd finally got something they can sink their teeth into with Blakey's NPRM move but the overall fight is going to be long and hard for them.

 

[Big Slick]

I would personally stay at AE and upgrade in 2 years. It's a sure thing. You won't have to commute and you won't take a pay cut. Also, if you want to work for AA, you may be able to flow up to the mainline.

Philosophically, it seems like a dangerous thing in this business to keep switching jobs in order to chase the brass ring. Six years ago in my AA class, we had 2 guys from FedEx, 1 from Alaska, 1 from SWA and lots of people who had given up captains jobs at Continental Express, AE etc. Not to mention folks who had given up promising military careers. Also, we had folks who had given up great corporate jobs. We've all been furloughed over 5 years. Talk about lost income. If you get too greedy, you could end up with nothing.

If you stay at AE, the worst thing that could happen is that you start logging PIC a couple of years later. If you leave, all kinds of bad things could happen.

Also, in this industry, things could look TOTALLY different in two years. US Airways may be the awesome job that everyone wants. AE could be hiring like crazy. Won't the upgrades at AE speed up once the AA flowbacks are recalled? You never know.

I would spend as much time as possible with my kids and stay patient. Your children don't care how much money you make, they are just glad to spend time with you. Trying to predict the future is just too hard in the airlines.

Let's say you commute for the next two years and get 1500 jet PIC. There are 3 possible outcomes:
1. You don't get hired by SWA, AA or CAL and you go back to US Airways where you become a commuter.
2. You don't get hired by SWA, AA or CAL and you go back to AE at the bottom of the seniority list again.
3. You do get hired by SWA, AA or CAL and you become a commuter.

Or, you upgrade to captain at AE in 2 years. You make a decent income and you spend time with your family. You can still interview with SWA, AA or CAL, but you have not bet your entire life on a long shot. US Airways might look good in a couple of years too. In any case, you will have a solid fall-back position. Who knows, you may decide you want to stay at AE.

But then again....who knows?

 

[Swaayze]

Slick,

Thanks, pretty much my sentiments exactly (except for the flowing up to AA part, that ship has long sailed and ironically enough in my resignation letter to Eagle in '99 I mentioned that I'd love to stay at AMR but that the flowthrough agreement was "anything but certain"). I also appreciate the frax guys but right now I just can't wrap my head around being gone 7 full days at a stretch. Yes I'd get more days off there but at Eagle I'll soon hold 2-day trips likely with about 14 days off. That means home part of every day and hotels less than 10 days a month. I'm basically just in the wrong business at this point I guess, but I'm not in a hurry to get out of it either. I want to have my cake and eat it too.

I basically have decided not to decide. I did not put in for a Republic Captain slot and I'm sure I'll stress over it again the next (and probably last) time it comes available (fairly soon I'm guessing). I simply cannot muster the energy and drive to accept another interim job and all of its associated hassles right now.

Funny story, my Mom is on a big spirtual positivity thing right now and has been praying for me, which is great. She called yesterday from the airport where she was going on vacation and had just talked to an AA Captain, telling him how I really would prefer AA and I'm stuck at Eagle, yada yada yada. He tells her I should get out of Eagle and forget about AA, just go to FedEx or UPS so I'll do well enough to retire early and because boxes don't bitch. She was so excited and I really felt kinda bad explaining to her that not only is it not that easy but that I don't even qualify to apply to either of them after 15 years in the industry!

Oh well, one way or another I'll end up where I'm supposed to be eventually. For now I'm an Eagle puke.

 

[Big Slick]

Maybe you can start a second job like teaching online or being a substitute teacher. I took a big pay cut this year and I'm planning on starting a second job soon.

I was a substitute after I graduated from college and I liked it. You make $50-$100 a day and you only work about 6 hours. (Teachers get lunch and one period off each day.) Plus, you work on the days you want.

I would also make sure I kept my options open at US Airways. Although that position doesn't seem as good as SWA, AA or CAL today, it might be awesome in a couple of years. They could merge with CAL, for example. They could purchase a bunch of 777s and start flying to China. Who knows?

If you choose not to decide, just make sure you keep your options open.

Bueno Suerte

 

[GuppyPuppy]

Slick-

Best post so far on this thread.

Swaayze-

Have you thought about becoming an x-ray technician? Seriously. If you ever decide to move, for whatever reason, you won't lose much as far as your salary.

Good luck with your final decision. It's not easy. I'm going through something similar right now, but I am building PIC at J_B. Commuting stinks, even a relatively "easy" commute. Consider today's weather in the NE with all the cancelled flights...some fathers will be missing their kid's birthday tonight or tomorrow because of it.

I think maybe you should:

A. Stay at Eagle and tough it out until you make captain.

or

B. Get out of the airline industry

Cheers!

GP

PS: I'd get out, but I'm too lazy and too stupid to do anything else.

 

[Swaayze]

Commuting stinks, even a relatively "easy" commute. Consider today's weather in the NE with all the cancelled flights...some fathers will be missing their kid's birthday tonight or tomorrow because of it.

PS: I'd get out, but I'm too lazy and too stupid to do anything else.

GP,

Thanks for the response, I do need constant reminders right now. Just this morning I was also reminded why it's good not to commute. BTW, I've done plenty of it, it's just been long enough that it's dulled in my memory now and I'm foolish enough to consider it again. Today is day 1 of a trip for me but I had a 1600 show, so I had to leave at 1500. My kids had Valentine's Day parties at school this morning so I made an appearance and was one of 2 dads total in my girls' classes who attended (they're in Kindergarten and still happy for me to show my mug around them in school). After that I had a quick lunch with the wife. Not quite the same as a day 1 for a commuter which would've probably begun at 1500 yesterday.

I too, am lazy and stupid so don't feel bad .

 

[PHXFLYR]

Swaayze:

With 3 type ratings and 10000hrs total time,how do you figure you don't qualify for a position at Fed Ex or UPS?? I say start the application process
and see where it leads. Can't hurt giving it a try...and I'll bet you'll be surprised. Whatchathink?

PHXFLYR

 

[Freight Dog]

Swaayze:

With 3 type ratings and 10000hrs total time,how do you figure you don't qualify for a position at Fed Ex or UPS?? I say start the application process
and see where it leads. Can't hurt giving it a try...and I'll bet you'll be surprised. Whatchathink?

PHXFLYR

It's called having thousands of hours in the right seat because of stagnation while FedEx and UPS both require turbine PIC.

Something that's unfortunately becoming more and more common these days... and will even be more common as a result of Age 65.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Substitute Teaching can be rewarding, if you're up for it.

In GRB there is a big shortage. They have steadily been reducing the minimum requirements, and they still can't get enough candidates. The going rate is about $120/day.

GRB is the 5th largest school district in WI, and in my kid's school they had to cancel some classes because they had used every single substitute they had-no one was left.

Hey, wait, that sounds like my airline-no crew left to fly the airplanes!

cliff
YIP

 

[Swaayze]

Yep, Freight Dog is right. FedEx and UPS both require more turbine PIC than I have logged, as does SWA, SkyBus, VirginAmerica, Lynx, and probably quite a few others. This is the whole reason for this thread, trying to decide at what price I go for the PIC at this stage in my life.

Thanks for the suggestion Cliff, but I'm not sure I'm teacher material and our district pays only $75/day so I can usually do better finding some OT to fly.