Hawker insurance hurdle for a new pilot

jstyle13

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Trying to make the jump from 121 to a Corporate gig flying a Hakwer or something similar. I've got approx 4500hrs total. 3000hrs jet, of which about 1000 is PIC in the CRJ200. I'm 29 years old. Is that enough to get insured in a corp jet flying as a PIC? Can you get typed/hired and fly as a PIC if you don't have any time in the airframe?

I've been out of corporate flying for a long time and don't know what it takes these days. Commuting and being stuck on reserve in the airlines is really starting to suck and I don't think I can take anymore.

Thanks!
 

TransMach

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QUOTE

Is that enough to get insured in a corp jet flying as a PIC? Can you get typed/hired and fly as a PIC if you don't have any time in the airframe?

ENDQUOTE

In a mid-size like a Hawker ... YES!, if you have significant other experience in corporate/charter aviation. Unfortunately, with only your CRJ experience and a look at an old Learjet it proves that (most guys) can only push buttons and pull levers, not make the important "real time" decisions necessary to pull the job off as a PIC.

The job is much different that airline flying ... in fact flying the airplane is the easy part. The rest of the job is much more difficult and more demanding of a broad base of knowledge and experience as well as the ability to apply it.

Also;

QUOTE

Commuting and being stuck on reserve in the airlines is really starting to suck and I don't think I can take anymore.

ENDQUOTE

This is about the worst reason you could give a prospective employer as to why you want to leave your current position. You need to think of something much more creative. You see, if that's your attitude (this job sucks) then that's what your prospective employer is going to believe you will think about the job he's offering and about 10 weeks after he's spent 35K on your training (you are to good for the job he offered anyway) and you will be out looking for something better. After all, you're a highly experience regional jet captain, capable of flying a corporate airplane to any destination on Earth (possibly including foreign destinations as exotic as Russia, China, the Middle Area and Africa) at a moment's notice ... safely ... competently ... confidently and in complete security and confidentiality. Cough, cough ... but that's how you come across in your initial post.

I'd suggest that you try to land a spot as a type rated first officer and prove to the industry, your employer and in the end your self, that you are ready to play the game.

And a grand, fun, rewarding game it is. Good luck, I mean it.

TransMach
 
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jstyle13

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I totally understand the differences in 121 vs 91/135 flying. As a airline pilot you have a lot of structure and backup when it comes to flying within the airline system. I know you kind of have to shoot from the hip sometimes and cater to the individual(s) when you fly corporate.

I did one year of 135 charter in a LR25 before I got hired on at my current airline. Not sure what that's worth though. I'm hoping to get a chance at a job flying a Hawker(or similarly sized jet) that might be poping up soon in my neck of the woods. It would be part 91 for a wealthy individual. That's about all I know. Wanted to get a feel for the insurance part of it all.

Thanks1
 

LJ45

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you can do anything with the right attitude and approach.:)

Get a plan, adapt and move forward.
 

BoilerUP

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You won't have any problems binding coverage with those flight times.

Insurance "requirements" are 100% about the art of "negotiation"...and competition for aviation insurance is pretty stiff these days so a lot of stuff is negotiable.
 

Gulfstream 200

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Trying to make the jump from 121 to a Corporate gig flying a Hakwer or something similar. I've got approx 4500hrs total. 3000hrs jet, of which about 1000 is PIC in the CRJ200. I'm 29 years old. Is that enough to get insured in a corp jet flying as a PIC? Can you get typed/hired and fly as a PIC if you don't have any time in the airframe?

I've been out of corporate flying for a long time and don't know what it takes these days. Commuting and being stuck on reserve in the airlines is really starting to suck and I don't think I can take anymore.

Thanks!

You can fly any corp jet as PIC around the world with those times. You can fly a hawker as PIC with half those times.

But....be a little tricky to get back into corporate right now. There is a bit of competition and hiring is slow to recover from what I have seen. Not impossible, just not as easy as it was a few years back.

Good Luck.
 

bravo

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Your flight experience will not be the issue if you try and make a move to the Part 91 world. Learning to fly a new airplane will be the easy part. Handling all the politics and issues outside of the airplane will be the challenge. Getting a part 91 corporate operator to give you a look see(unless you have an inside track to a job) will be the hard part. If in fact you have little or no corporate experience might be difficult. You mentioned a possible gig for a wealthy individual. That could be really good or really bad.

As was mentioned with the right attitude you could easily adapt to a new environment. You have to be willing to listen, observe, have an open mind, and be very flexible. Attitude will be your biggest asest. The pilot world can be pretty tough right now. Good luck and hopefully the right job will come your way.
 

400A

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Your biggest hurdle right now will be competing with someone who is already typed and current on the Hawker. Initial is now in the $40K range so cost wise for the owner you are at a serious disadvantage.

You will have no trouble with the Hawker itself, it is a piece of cake. If you get in a proline 21 model, the FMS will be very similar to the CRJ from what I understand.

Good luck!
 

TimsKeeper

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40k?

If you pay 40K for Hawker initial ya need to work on your negotiating skills.
 

jstyle13

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Thanks for all the input everyone. I know training is expensive these days and that RJ drivers llike me nothing special, are a dime a dozen and at a disadvantage against seasoned corporate pilots. This gig I'm hoping to land is still in the early phases and I only have a small shot because I know the guy who is putting it all together. I just gotta convince him to hire me if the potential owner ends up buying a jet. To not have to commute anymore and be based at home would be so great.

Thanks!
 

400A

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If you pay 40K for Hawker initial ya need to work on your negotiating skills.
Sorry man. Simcom does not have a proline 21 sim. While I do not have the invoice in front of me, recurrent at FSI ICT was in the mid 20's in may. If you were such a stout negotiator, you would also know that there are significant cost associated with initial that are not included in the price you pay the training facility. My negotiating skills are just fine.

Other than the personal shot at me, your comment was helpful how? It was a ball park figure including all cost associated with an initial. That is the only number that matters to the boss. I am very familiar with both Simuflite and Flight Safety's discount structures, and what it takes to qualify for them. Single plane operators do not qualify for the manufacturer / fractional discount level.
 

BoilerUP

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I'm pretty sure Simuflite has a PL21 Hawker sim in Morristown...
 

400A

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I'm pretty sure Simuflite has a PL21 Hawker sim in Morristown...
They do! Pricing was the same as FSI in the spring. I was also forced to do FSI in the spring because we had left over credits from the purchase of 2 new aircraft.

SIMCOM does not.
 

BoilerUP

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They do! Pricing was the same as FSI in the spring. I was also forced to do FSI in the spring because we had left over credits from the purchase of 2 new aircraft.

SIMCOM does not.
You might check back with Simuflite for your next training needs...their CJ3 sim in MMU is brand-spanking-new (like not even 100% certified yet) and they're trying to drum up business but their cost for CJ2+ training (Initial or Recurrent) after the first of the year is SUBSTANTIALLY less than FSI Wichita...like more than 1/3 less.
 

400A

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You might check back with Simuflite for your next training needs...their CJ3 sim in MMU is brand-spanking-new (like not even 100% certified yet) and they're trying to drum up business but their cost for CJ2+ training (Initial or Recurrent) after the first of the year is SUBSTANTIALLY less than FSI Wichita...like more than 1/3 less.
My FSI rep always matches anything Simuflite offers me. I have many friends in ICT from my Raytheon days so I enjoy going there. 750 sim is brand new in ICT as well.
 

BoilerUP

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My FSI rep always matches anything Simuflite offers me.
Well if that's the case, your negotiation skills are better than mine :laugh:

I was very disappointed in FSI's efforts to earn our business.
 

400A

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Well if that's the case, your negotiation skills are better than mine :laugh:

I was very disappointed in FSI's efforts to earn our business.
Been buying from the same rep for 18 years. Only trained other than them once. Taking him fishing does not hurt either....LOL

I was however, very upset about their pay upfront policy. I guess they got burned by some of the big departments shutting down. It was not that big a deal with the exception of the fact they told that 1 week prior to training.
 

400A

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Well if that's the case, your negotiation skills are better than mine :laugh:

I was very disappointed in FSI's efforts to earn our business.
Been buying from the same rep for 18 years. Only trained other than them once. Taking him fishing does not hurt either....LOL

I was however, very upset about their pay upfront policy. I guess they got burned by some of the big departments shutting down. It was not that big a deal with the exception of the fact they told that 1 week prior to training.
 

TimsKeeper

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40k? no

Again, if you pay 40k for a Hawker initial I still think your negotiating skills are poor.

First of all, he didn't mention Proline 21 so you are making assumptions based on your needs, not his.

Secondly he said Part 91, so even if he does have a Proline 21 airplane that does not mean he needs to take the type in a Proline 21 sim. If he didn't check around he might not know that taking a type in the 700 sim would be no different type than doing it in the brand-spankin new one at twice the cost.
 
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