Hawaiian

[Dan Roman]

Just to be clear, I'm not referring to politics on the upcoming HND award. I really don't have a clue what effects that. I'm simply pointing out the fact that there would be very stiff opposition to any airline trying to merge with Hawaiian. While it's true DAL very well could make an offer for HA, and HA's BOD could even accept it. But that doesn't mean it would happen. I think the combination of strong anti merger sentiment from the employees, general public and all state and federal politicians would be enough to stop it.

 

[General Lee]

Just to be clear, I'm not referring to politics on the upcoming HND award. I really don't have a clue what effects that. I'm simply pointing out the fact that there would be very stiff opposition to any airline trying to merge with Hawaiian. While it's true DAL very well could make an offer for HA, and HA's BOD could even accept it. But that doesn't mean it would happen. I think the combination of strong anti merger sentiment from the employees, general public and all state and federal politicians would be enough to stop it.

I agree Dan. Hawaiian has a very distinct brand, and it advertises for your State as well. That would be a tough buy or merge. But, if it continues to infringe in Legacy growth or legacy profits, it may be looked at, especially for the current market cap, which makes it a target. You just never know. Maybe NOT getting the HND slot which is in contention might be a "good" thing for you guys? Just a guess.

As far as the public goes, they didn't seem to have a problem with Go! Hawaii CRJs putting the other famous Hawaiian airline, Aloha, out of pax business. They were an iconic brand too, and now they fly late night intra island cargo on old 732s and Saabs. People usually vote with their pocket books first.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Dan Roman]

Actually Aloha put Aloha out of business. Go was just in an opportunistic position to capitalize on it and frankly they failed miserably. It used to be AQ and HA split the inter -island market mostly in half. At one time AQ somewhat dominated with around 60%. Go has only gotten less than 10%. They even bought the other inter island carrier that started after AQ folded (I forget their name)who also had about a 10% market share. After Go bought them they should have kept their 10% plus the other airlines 10% to at least have had 20%. However, after buying the other carrier they still ended with less than 10%. Go has been a major failure and almost a nonentity over here. There is always about 10% of the market that just goes on anyone or can't get a seat when they want to go on HA. That's the 10% Go carries.

 

[General Lee]

Actually Aloha put Aloha out of business. Go was just in an opportunistic position to capitalize on it and frankly they failed miserably. It used to be AQ and HA split the inter -island market mostly in half. At one time AQ somewhat dominated with around 60%. Go has only gotten less than 10%. They even bought the other inter island carrier that started after AQ folded (I forget their name)who also had about a 10% market share. After Go bought them they should have kept their 10% plus the other airlines 10% to at least have had 20%. However, after buying the other carrier they still ended with less than 10%. Go has been a major failure and almost a nonentity over here. There is always about 10% of the market that just goes on anyone or can't get a seat when they want to go on HA. That's the 10% Go carries.

Dan,

I agree, but what I was saying is that not many seem to miss Aloha for some reason. It had a great brand also.

So, have you done any of those JFK trips yet? What do you think? Nice layover? Do you prefer those or the Japan/Australia/Phillipines stuff? What do you think of the A330? Miss the 767? Have a good one.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Dan Roman]

JFK is an awesome trip. We leave HNL AT 3pm and get to JFK at around 7am EST which is only 1am HNL time. So it's not hard to stay up. We stay near Times Sq and departure is 10 am on day three, which means a 3 pm arrival back home. Never fail to find something to do there. Last time I was there I saw a favorite music group of mine (The Screaming Orphans, they play both rock and Trad Celtic) at a very cool intimate little club in Soho. The crew came with me an they were stoked.
4 of those a month means an 84 hour line 18 days off. SYD will replace those when the weather gets cold. That's the same deal except it means a surf at Manly and the red eye is on the way home. I really can't say which trip I like best, but I'm leaning towards JFK because there is so much to do there. Although ask me again in March, we start Auckland and it's a 2 or 3 day layover.

See why I don't want Hawaiian bought by anyone!

A330 is awesome. I spent 10 years in the 767 and loved it, but I am thoroughly enjoying the Airbus. Most who fly it seem to agree. If you hear someone bad mouth an Airbus, ask them if they ever flew one. More often than not, you can guess what the answer is.

BTW, I will give you this. If HA does get bought DAL is really the only airline that makes a good fit. It would make a very strong hub connecting Asia, the Pacific and the U.S. market. The only other realistic players could be UAL who I don't think would have any interest, and USAir, who might but would lose out to DAL if that bidding started. The BOD would take DAL over USAir do to USAirs ongoing labor issues I'm certain. All hypothetical of course, you know we're I stand on the subject!

 

[General Lee]

JFK is an awesome trip. We leave HNL AT 3pm and get to JFK at around 7am EST which is only 1am HNL time. So it's not hard to stay up. We stay near Times Sq and departure is 10 am on day three, which means a 3 pm arrival back home. Never fail to find something to do there. Last time I was there I saw a favorite music group of mine (The Screaming Orphans, they play both rock and Trad Celtic) at a very cool intimate little club in Soho. The crew came with me an they were stoked.
4 of those a month means an 84 hour line 18 days off. SYD will replace those when the weather gets cold. That's the same deal except it means a surf at Manly and the red eye is on the way home. I really can't say which trip I like best, but I'm leaning towards JFK because there is so much to do there. Although ask me again in March, we start Auckland and it's a 2 or 3 day layover.

See why I don't want Hawaiian bought by anyone!

A330 is awesome. I spent 10 years in the 767 and loved it, but I am thoroughly enjoying the Airbus. Most who fly it seem to agree. If you hear someone bad mouth an Airbus, ask them if they ever flew one. More often than not, you can guess what the answer is.

BTW, I will give you this. If HA does get bought DAL is really the only airline that makes a good fit. It would make a very strong hub connecting Asia, the Pacific and the U.S. market. The only other realistic players could be UAL who I don't think would have any interest, and USAir, who might but would lose out to DAL if that bidding started. The BOD would take DAL over USAir do to USAirs ongoing labor issues I'm certain. All hypothetical of course, you know we're I stand on the subject!

Good to hear. Sounds like you have some good VARIETY. That's always nice. Thanks for the detailed response.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Freebs7]

Just to be clear, I'm not referring to politics on the upcoming HND award. I really don't have a clue what effects that. I'm simply pointing out the fact that there would be very stiff opposition to any airline trying to merge with Hawaiian. While it's true DAL very well could make an offer for HA, and HA's BOD could even accept it. But that doesn't mean it would happen. I think the combination of strong anti merger sentiment from the employees, general public and all state and federal politicians would be enough to stop it.

I really hope a buyout/merger never happens. But hypothetically if it were to happen―and for the scenario let's assume that it is with DAL―what would be the ramifications for HAL pilots?

 

[General Lee]

I really hope a buyout/merger never happens. But hypothetically if it were to happen―and for the scenario let's assume that it is with DAL―what would be the ramifications for HAL pilots?

I now don't think it will happen (70/30 it won't), but if it did, some junior Hawaiian pilots would end up in DTW, and some senior DL pilots would end up in HNL. I know NWA had a base there in the past, and many might want to finish their careers back there. Just a guess. There could be fences put up, but the DL/NWA merger only had fences on planes the other airline didn't have (777, 744, 787), not on the planes both had. By next year, DL will have all the same type of planes (including 717s) that Hawaiian has. If the A350s are there before then, then maybe they would be fenced. This is all just a guess, and it probably won't happen. Probably not.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Dan Roman]

I really hope a buyout/merger never happens. But hypothetically if it were to happen―and for the scenario let's assume that it is with DAL―what would be the ramifications for HAL pilots?

FWIW, and even the General is seeing the light! (70/30 is a good start General, I'll go one further and say about equal chance of HAL merging with anyone to HAL starting service to Lubbock) but...... Hnl domicles with legacy carriers (when they've had them in the past) tend to have about third of very senior people and around 2/3's pretty to very junior.
Mergers are always a crap shoot, so who knows. Obviously DAL wouldn't try and pull what SWA did. So I'm guessing it would be relatively smooth. I'm sure they would be aware that any negative treatment of any Hawaii based employees would turn Hawaii into a nightmare for the whole airline and would make the merger counter productive.

 

[HAL]

SYD will replace those when the weather gets cold.

Dan, please please please let some fall farther down the seniority list! JFK is the only destination I haven't flown to on the 330 yet.

HAL

 

[slatsnfive]

Actually Aloha put Aloha out of business. Go was just in an opportunistic position to capitalize on it and frankly they failed miserably. It used to be AQ and HA split the inter -island market mostly in half. At one time AQ somewhat dominated with around 60%. Go has only gotten less than 10%. They even bought the other inter island carrier that started after AQ folded (I forget their name)who also had about a 10% market share. After Go bought them they should have kept their 10% plus the other airlines 10% to at least have had 20%. However, after buying the other carrier they still ended with less than 10%. Go has been a major failure and almost a nonentity over here. There is always about 10% of the market that just goes on anyone or can't get a seat when they want to go on HA. That's the 10% Go carries.

To be clear on your statement, Island Air, a true Hawaiian local air carrier for well over 30 years carries zero percent?

I think you have forgotten the simple fact that many pilots at AQ and HA all had their start at Island Air, which was an excellent step to being hired by either AQ or HA, a dream job for many local kids aspiring to be airline pilots one day.


Respectfully,
slatsnfive

 

[Dan Roman]

To be clear on your statement, Island Air, a true Hawaiian local air carrier for well over 30 years carries zero percent?

I think you have forgotten the simple fact that many pilots at AQ and HA all had their start at Island Air, which was an excellent step to being hired by either AQ or HA, a dream job for many local kids aspiring to be airline pilots one day.


Respectfully,
slatsnfive

Point taken and I apologize! I was referring to the core inter-island flights like HNL to OGG LIH KOA etc. Island Air is certainly a significant inter-island carrier and very classy airline. They do get unsung relative to their long history. No offense meant.

 

[Dan Roman]

Dan, please please please let some fall farther down the seniority list! JFK is the only destination I haven't flown to on the 330 yet.

HAL

I'm guessing JFK's are going to go more junior starting in Dec but SYD's more senior..

 

[HA25]

The only thing I fear if we were to go with a DAL merge/sale is (As a junior guy) being stuck on Res in JFK.... As it is I have to work a commute from PDX and that's not so bad for West Bound to HNL, but I sat enough JFK reserve (5 Towns) for two prior jobs and don't want to do anymore of that crap...

SLC, MSP, or anything West Coast I can live with..

 

[Dan Roman]

The only thing I fear if we were to go with a DAL merge/sale is (As a junior guy) being stuck on Res in JFK.... As it is I have to work a commute from PDX and that's not so bad for West Bound to HNL, but I sat enough JFK reserve (5 Towns) for two prior jobs and don't want to do anymore of that crap...

SLC, MSP, or anything West Coast I can live with..

You won't be junior for long. We are going to hire probably another 80 next year and the same in 2014 from what I hear. We do have 10 more AirBuses coming in the next 2 years. If it were to happen I am sure it would be pretty far down the road. Hawaiian is making a lot of investments in the future that would indicate they plan on being a stand alone carrier for the time being.
The other thing you have going for you is "career expectations" are always used for meshing lists by any judge. The Hawaiian pilots all have either Inter-Island or Trans-Pac based in HNL (as well as a small SEA base that would be easily absorbed) as their career expectations as well as lot's of HNL expansion. DAL pilots are the ones with JFK as their "career expectations" and I am sure most of them would rather live on the East Coast and fly to Europe than uproot their families and move to Hawaii. I think you would be surprised how few DAL pilots actually would want a HNL domicile. Obviously there would be a few, but I think it is a safe bet the Hawaiian folks will keep plenty of Hawaii flying. Hell, I wouldn't mind commuting to fly out of JFK to Europe for a year or two and split my time between the East Coast and Hawaii. I'm guessing there would be enough Hawaiian pilots that would want to fly out of the mainland relative to the amount of DAL pilots that would want to go to Hawaii.
Bottom line is, there would be lot's of options and I don't think anyone would have to be forced into something they don't want, either DAL or HA if the two merged.

 

[slatsnfive]

Point taken and I apologize! I was referring to the core inter-island flights like HNL to OGG LIH KOA etc. Island Air is certainly a significant inter-island carrier and very classy airline. They do get unsung relative to their long history. No offense meant.

Captain,

No offense taken, and as what I figured you meant, just clarifying.

I've enjoyed reading all your posts throughout the years, always accurate and informative, thank you.

In short, GO needs to leave Hawaii already.

Respectfully,
slatsnfive

 

[Jim]

In short, GO needs to leave Hawaii already.

No, GO needs to stay. They don't harm Hawaiian but their operation discourages someone who could from thinking about entering the market.

 

[slatsnfive]

No, GO needs to stay. They don't harm Hawaiian but their operation discourages someone who could from thinking about entering the market.

Correct, they don't harm Hawaiian, Hawaiian is solid, but GO harms and also possibly prevents other local carriers from expanding, and establishing itself as another inter-island legacy route carrier.

To clarify, are you more for the sustainability of GO, than the expansion of local carriers, who will hire the local kids who have been patiently waiting for a local airline pilot position?

Respectfully,
slatsnfive

 

[Jim]

To clarify, are you more for the sustainability of GO, than the expansion of local carriers, who will hire the local kids who have been patiently waiting for a local airline pilot position?

Respectfully,
slatsnfive

No, I'm not against the expansion of local carriers. If GO went away, it would open the door to someone like AE, Horizon, Allegaint, SWA, etc who could do it right and hurt Hawaiian. Then where would your local jobs go?

 

[slatsnfive]

No, I'm not against the expansion of local carriers. If GO went away, it would open the door to someone like AE, Horizon, Allegaint, SWA, etc who could do it right and hurt Hawaiian. Then where would your local jobs go?

Is there not currently a local carrier in expansion mode, acquiring new additional aircraft, I believe first plane arrived last month?

Would be wise to support THAT local carrier, who immediately can fill the void if GO abruptly up and went. If there was no other airline expanding locally, then correct, Hawaiian would need GO in Hawaii to deter possible new entrants.

Read the article on the profitability of Hawaiian today, awesome, Hawaiian is untouchable, no other airline comes close to what they have to offer, none.

Respectfully,
slatsnfive