Hawaiian Jumpseat War

[dooork]

No, unfortunately not BS. When Mesa was starting up their Go! operation, they simply told several of their crew members to 'get to Hawaii', on their own. I met two of these guys trying to get to HNL and they confirmed it. Word quickly spread to our jumpseat committee, then back to the MAG union, who put a stop to it right away.

HAL

They chose to do that...fine....MESA did not make them.

 

[HAL]

They chose to do that...fine....MESA did not make them.

No, it was not a choice - it was their only means of getting to Hawaii since Mesa did not buy them a ticket to HNL! That is the point we're trying to make here. Mesa just assumed they could save money by not buying their pilots a ticket, but the jumpseat rules go against that. If you are transferred to a new base, the airline is supposed to get you there.

HAL

 

[dooork]

No, it was not a choice - it was their only means of getting to Hawaii since Mesa did not buy them a ticket to HNL! That is the point we're trying to make here. Mesa just assumed they could save money by not buying their pilots a ticket, but the jumpseat rules go against that. If you are transferred to a new base, the airline is supposed to get you there.

HAL

Really? Just what do you know about whats in OUR contract. Did they get TDY'ed? Involuntary displacement? Did they bid for it? It does not sound like you know the whole story. Thats the point I am trying to make! Not all situations require MESA to buy them a ticket. If it was a situation that required MESA to buy them a ticket and they did not...then you don't go, if they threaten you you call your ALPA rep....it will be taken care of....what would you do.....GET IT!

 

[dooork]

P.S. Do I put it past some people in certain dept. to try something against the contract? certainly not. Do I put it past pilots to not know their contract? certainly not.

 

[waveflyer]

living up to your name doork-

here's the scam my old regional used to do- dhd on my own company which lasted from 5am-midnight buzzing around-or get the cheapest possible nonrev ticket on completely full flights with no priority- knowing full well most pilots will just choose to jumpseat since they'd be wrecked if i did it their way. Or in your case- offering so many bad choices that you end up "choosing" - and then end up having to travel yourself...

They play the game to save money when every other company does it right. Denying this is dumb. Sticking up for it is a complete regional mentality. I'm from the regionals- i have a lot of pride coming up from the civilian world- but that mentality needs to die.

BtW- doesn't matter what loopholes Mesa is exploiting in a crappy regional contract- the jumpseat is not supposed to be used for company transportation and official business. You're trying to blur the line between a commute and the opening of a base- and the flow of new pilots being transferred into and out of a base.

 

[dooork]

living up to your name doork-

here's the scam my old regional used to do- dhd on my own company which lasted from 5am-midnight buzzing around-or get the cheapest possible nonrev ticket on completely full flights with no priority- knowing full well most pilots will just choose to jumpseat since they'd be wrecked if i did it their way. Or in your case- offering so many bad choices that you end up "choosing" - and then end up having to travel yourself...

They play the game to save money when every other company does it right. Denying this is dumb. Sticking up for it is a complete regional mentality. I'm from the regionals- i have a lot of pride coming up from the civilian world- but that mentality needs to die.

BtW- doesn't matter what loopholes Mesa is exploiting in a crappy regional contract- the jumpseat is not supposed to be used for company transportation and official business. You're trying to blur the line between a commute and the opening of a base- and the flow of new pilots being transferred into and out of a base.

I am not trying to blur anything. Know your contract and follow it.

 

[waveflyer]

Well I wouldn't blame HAL for wanting to verify that everything in the Mesa contract jives with their jumpseat agreement. Especially when dealing with regional pilots who feel more pressure not to stand up to their company when they ask them to bend the rules-

how many outstanding grievances does Mesa have right now? 4 years ago it was in the thousands... So "grieve it" may not be effective.

 

[HAL]

dooork, I understand you defending your colleagues, however this was a pretty cut & dried case, as the Go! operation was about to begin, meaning a new base was about to open up. These pilots were being transferred to the base, and the company wasn't giving them any means to get to Hawaii. Now of course Mesa doesn't have an official 'means of deadheading crews on the jumpseat', because it's illegal. They just didn't give these guys any other method of getting to Hawaii other than buying a ticket or jumpseating. Yes, it was the word of the two pilots, undefended by Mesa. But really, if Mesa had bought them a ticket to Hawaii, why would they have asked for jumpseats and said it was the only way?

HAL

 

[Hamburger]

GO Pilots had nothing to do with the demise of Aloha. Why dont you point your finger at JO or some other management guys.

I'm not 100% on the details of the situation.

Is GO! an alter ego situation a la Trans States/Gojets where pilots on an existing seniority list blatantly side-stepped seniority at their own company?

Did every single pilot at Go! get junior manned to Hawaii from PHX or did the bid for Hawaii with no other purpose than to undercut Aloha?

For what it's worth, I hear the Go! guys are getting exactly the screwing they deserve from Big Daddy O. Paying for their own lodging even though they are TDY, changing bases to a different island every few weeks to insure they can't afford to live out there, Haven't been home for months because their schedules aren't commutable..............

Hawaii is a Small place. When you go out there and put the locals out of work, you'd better expect that they're not going to be happy about it.

 

[wscrj]

Burger, mush of what you've heard is correct, however "GO" is not an alter-ego. Most of the guys out there have been displaced there due to furloughs.

Expecting a guy to jumpseat for company business was a regular tactic used by YV management. They were caught MANY times positive spacing crews on a US Air flight for an America West flight (pre-merger). Most guys would stop it cold before it happened, but a few were too junior or too clueless to notice it was wrong. Management counted on this...

 

[Hamburger]

If they're not alter-ego, then I guess it is what it is.

I'm sure nobody is more aware of how hard Mesa sucks than the guys who work there. It is tragic that this nickel and dime, chump outfit was the nail in Aloha's coffin.....I find it hard to blame the pilots who are just going to work just like the rest of us. I'm not offering to pay their bills, so I've got nothing to say about the wages/work rules they are willing to accept.

 

[Fltlvls]

If they're not alter-ego, then I guess it is what it is.

I'm sure nobody is more aware of how hard Mesa sucks than the guys who work there. It is tragic that this nickel and dime, chump outfit was the nail in Aloha's coffin.....I find it hard to blame the pilots who are just going to work just like the rest of us. I'm not offering to pay their bills, so I've got nothing to say about the wages/work rules they are willing to accept.

Hard to believe that a new operater in Hawaii with 6 (50 seat) RJs could put a company like Aloha out of business...Not buying it.

 

[islandhopper]

It's about time that somebody figured out that MESA is Deadheading crews on other airlines Jumpseats.

At the beginning of go! airlines, an e-mail was sent out by Mesa management to the go! pilots requiring them to jumpseat out to Hawaii with some faulty line of reasoning given why they would not be bought tickets.

This e-mail was forwarded to the MEC's of several airlines, and was nipped in the bud way back then.

Of course J.O. would never let this happen again.

The worst part was, with the exception of the lone pilot who forwarded the e-mail, most, if not all the other go! pilots complied with the e-mail and did use the jumpseat.

 

[islandhopper]

No, unfortunately not BS. When Mesa was starting up their Go! operation, they simply told several of their crew members to 'get to Hawaii', on their own. I met two of these guys trying to get to HNL and they confirmed it. Word quickly spread to our jumpseat committee, then back to the MAG union, who put a stop to it right away.

HAL

^^^^ confirmed

 

[BoeingBaller]

You may as well deny every regional pilot the jump seat..

 

[RNP.15]

Well after Alaska buys Hawaiian and redeploys Horizon for inter Island service. There will be peace in the valley and everyone will be welcome on the JS to the Islands.

 

[fly4surf]

Ouch.

 

[dooork]

^^^^ confirmed

I don't know what to tell you to get it through your heads. But,here goes,
Do airlines have trackers or schedulers that will try to get you to do something against the contract or FARs....yep....do you do it....nope!
END OF STORY!

 

[islandhopper]

I am not trying to blur anything.

really? I read all of your replies in this thread and you are about as clear as mud.

 

[dooork]

really? I read all of your replies in this thread and you are about as clear as mud.

Follow the contract and FARs. Is that clear to you?
Whats your problem? I am saying that our pilots should never use the jump seat when the company is required to get you there.
GET IT.