Hawaiian Jumpseat War

[HAL]

It amazes me that as pilots they allow the companies to treat them in this way.Luv

As much as I support my union and their efforts on my behalf to improve the quality of our jobs and lives, there is a practical limit on what we can do to influence what a company does to us. After all, we don't own the company; the shareholders or investors do. We have a strong voice in operations and safety, and can work on influencing how management deals with us by holding them and ourselves to the highest professional standards. But to say that we shouldn't 'allow' the companies to treat us badly doesn't match the reality of our situation. If some airline's management team decides that their style is to treat the pilots as a hostile and expensive 'cost', there's not a lot pilots can do to change that, short of being as professional as possible. Maybe that will show them what we really are - high level managers & professionals that deal with a unique level of responsibility on a daily basis. But if they are set on seeing us as a liability, there really isn't anything we can do. We may scream a lot on these message boards, but again, we don't own the company. Now if you can win one of those mega-millions lottery jackpots, feel free to go out and purchase you own airline. Then we'll know that we'll have a pleasant and respectful management team.

HAL

 

[Fltlvls]

Very well stated HAL. That is what a lot of pilot groups forget when they start trashing talking each and try to be the armchair QB on what they should or shouldn't do. Every airline management is basically the same, they all try the same tactics at some point to see how far they can go with it while others push it over the edge.

 

[Full of LUV]

As much as I support my union and their efforts on my behalf to improve the quality of our jobs and lives, there is a practical limit on what we can do to influence what a company does to us. After all, we don't own the company; the shareholders or investors do. We have a strong voice in operations and safety, and can work on influencing how management deals with us by holding them and ourselves to the highest professional standards. But to say that we shouldn't 'allow' the companies to treat us badly doesn't match the reality of our situation. If some airline's management team decides that their style is to treat the pilots as a hostile and expensive 'cost', there's not a lot pilots can do to change that, short of being as professional as possible. Maybe that will show them what we really are - high level managers & professionals that deal with a unique level of responsibility on a daily basis. But if they are set on seeing us as a liability, there really isn't anything we can do. We may scream a lot on these message boards, but again, we don't own the company. Now if you can win one of those mega-millions lottery jackpots, feel free to go out and purchase you own airline. Then we'll know that we'll have a pleasant and respectful management team.

HAL

Maybe so Hal, but why have collective bargaining, scope clauses, etc if your fine with managment just buying other airlines, "merging their operations", and not dealing with the ramifications.
Look at the new DAL regional selloffs, look at republic, there is no difference. At least at UAL/CAL they will get the company to come to the table with a new contract before they allow them to "merge their operations".
I'm just saying the regionals are what they are because people are willing to put on their uniform and come to work for what they offer. Well, if you don't stand up for yourself, don't expect anyone else to.
Used to be a race to the bottom between regional companies, now they don't even have to race eachother, because each regional company has multiple certificates to compete against eachother from within....

 

[Fltlvls]

Maybe so Hal, but why have collective bargaining, scope clauses, etc if your fine with managment just buying other airlines, "merging their operations", and not dealing with the ramifications.
Look at the new DAL regional selloffs, look at republic, there is no difference. At least at UAL/CAL they will get the company to come to the table with a new contract before they allow them to "merge their operations".
I'm just saying the regionals are what they are because people are willing to put on their uniform and come to work for what they offer. Well, if you don't stand up for yourself, don't expect anyone else to.
Used to be a race to the bottom between regional companies, now they don't even have to race eachother, because each regional company has multiple certificates to compete against eachother from within....

The regionals have always been considered a stepping stone to the majors and not a career,therefore there is a continual cycle of pilots coming and going and the pilots just want the quick upgrade to get the PIC time to move on, so they really don't care what the pay is or any other bennies that may exist.

The problem with CBA's is that they are governed by the Railway Labor Act that is mostly in favor of management, so the pilot group and union have little wiggle room to accomplish certain things.

Scope clauses are a big deal, Mesa for example took the same crappy contract in order to capture scope ( I know, I was there). Trans States did not capture scope, therefore GoJets still exist as a non-union carrier
flying the CRJ-700s.. What is Trans States side of the house flying?..Oh yeah 50 seaters.

As far as the company buying other airlines, once again the pilot group nor the union have any control or say so in what the company does with their money.As a contract regional, your company is at the mercy of the mainline partner, they dictate who gets what flying, but the regionals twist that into "your stealing our flying"..Total BS.

 

[waveflyer]

That USED to be what regionals were about= a "QUICK" upgrade and get out-

With all the outsourcing though- it's usually not quick and competitive Turbine PIC times are not close to the mythical "1000"- usually closer to 3000-5000--->

Dress it up all you want- there's nothing quick about a stepping stone that takes 7-13 YEARS to move on from

As far as being willing- we all have a lot invested in this career- I love the major airline pilots that sell out their jobs- and then bitch about a regional pilot that's not quite ready to give up on his or her career- so they endure. Looked down on for enduring- great. How about those with the power stop the outsourcing when they can and not choose to sell it out for a menial pay raise for the top guys? (AKA DELTA 2006)

 

[Scope out RJ's]

That USED to be what regionals were about= a "QUICK" upgrade and get out-

Most still are. There are airlines out there hiring, just not southwest.

With all the outsourcing though- it's usually not quick and competitive Turbine PIC times are not close to the mythical "1000"- usually closer to 3000-5000--->

That's what makes regionals so great for a stepping stone!

Dress it up all you want- there's nothing quick about a stepping stone that takes 7-13 YEARS to move on from

Kind of like southwest now......Oh, you aren't talking about upgrade times?:laugh:

As far as being willing- we all have a lot invested in this career-

the southwest pilots more than anyone since they had to buy their jobs!

I love the major airline pilots that sell out their jobs- and then bitch about a regional pilot that's not quite ready to give up on his or her career- so they endure. Looked down on for enduring- great. How about those with the power stop the outsourcing when they can and not choose to sell it out for a menial pay raise for the top guys? (AKA DELTA 2006)

I love the guys who are so cocky they think their airline is the only one on the planet and that their ******************** don't stink.
They paid for their job, and had their senior pilots sell them out for age 65, stagnating their careers. They brought down the industry with ********************ty pay and benefits, with even worse work rules.
Now, no more 5 year upgrades, looks more like 15-20. (aka southwest 2009)

 

[waveflyer]

Your schtik is tired. Ran out of steam a while ago. With your handle- you ought to support my views- but it seems more important to you to bash southwest. It's just wierd.

It's not southwest that makes me cocky. It's the six pack stomach - how hard i work - all my friends and how often i get laid that makes me cocky---

only haters get upset by it.

It's really not my fault you're more than a bit backed up- just got to work on your game...

 

[A-V-8]

Also, we do have to be vigilant if Mesa is trying to us the jumpseat for pilots traveling on company business to save money when relocating crews to Hawaii. This is a big no no.

Trust me no Mesa pilot would do that!

But the bottom line is we are not instigating a jumpseat war, it was an isolated incident that the MEC wants to make sure that it doesn't happen again.

I agree. I jumped on you guys while out there. Nothing but professionals up front and in the back. Just a few rogue pilots taking out their frustrations on Go pilots. Mesa guys retaliated and the jump seat chairmen diffused it. You know if you lash out this way at someone they are likely to lash out at one of your pilots in retaliation. Nothing good can come out of stonewalling a jump seater because you disagree with something that is completely unrelated to him/her getting to where you are going and asking for a seat that WONT COST YOU ANYTHING.

 

[BoeingBaller]

Your schtik is tired. Ran out of steam a while ago. With your handle- you ought to support my views- but it seems more important to you to bash southwest. It's just wierd.

It's not southwest that makes me cocky. It's the six pack stomach - how hard i work - all my friends and how often i get laid that makes me cocky---

only haters get upset by it.

It's really not my fault you're more than a bit backed up- just got to work on your game...

You couldn't get laid in a woman's prison..

 

[waveflyer]

You sure?
'cause I'm out the door right now and I'd like to tell Christi your thoughts on that...
You keep hating and I'll keep poking... It's a good set up for me, bc my give a sh/t meter is pretty well pegged at zero

 

[say again]

You couldn't get laid in a woman's prison..

That may be a good thing.

 

[B727FA]

It's about time that somebody figured out that MESA is Deadheading crews on other airlines Jumpseats.

It's the job of the pilot to refuse to be DH'd on a js. Simple as that.

If the pilot CHOOSES to give up their seat for another non-rev (which I've seen more often than not), then MGT can't compel anyone to DH, esp off line, in the JS.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Your schtik is tired. Ran out of steam a while ago. With your handle- you ought to support my views- but it seems more important to you to bash southwest. It's just wierd.

I'm just not a communist weed like you. I guess I just can't help it. You blame ALPA pilots for the industry, and I blame crappy carriers like southwest. It's that simple. As far as hating southwest. Naaah, just some of their ****************************** bag pilots like you. Especiallyl the junior ones who think they've re invented the wheel by working there.

It's not southwest that makes me cocky. It's the six pack stomach - how hard i work - all my friends and how often i get laid that makes me cocky---

:laugh::laugh::laugh:
I'll bet you're a real Richard Simmons.
All your friends and the guys at the gym must really comment on those rock hard abs! (not that there's anything wrong with that)

only haters get upset by it.

I know, a guy drops his keys in front of you, he better kick them all the way home!

It's really not my fault you're more than a bit backed up- just got to work on your game...

My game is to keep little pricks like you in check, junior. And as far as being backed up. If picking up men at your local gym is how you get your pleasure..........It kind of explains a lot about your posts!:blush: You go girl!