Hawaiian Jumpseat War

[Raoul Duke]

Heard from a buddy at Hawaiian that they have been refusing to let go! pilots on their JS. Too funny, couldn't happen to a better group.

 

[CRJFlyer]

go! is not well liked in Hawaii...

 

[GuppyWN]

Now? After 3 years? I happen to agree but I'd have done it from day 1.

Gup

 

[dooork]

Now? After 3 years? I happen to agree but I'd have done it from day 1.

Gup

Really, why.....did the pilot group do this....what the f are you talking about. use your brain dum azz.

 

[samballs]

Really, why.....did the pilot group do this....what the f are you talking about. use your brain dum azz.

Not all together, but they gave a helping hand by having the worst contract in the industry.

 

[Fltlvls]

Not all together, but they gave a helping hand by having the worst contract in the industry.

Just what FI needs, another thread about Mesa and their contract and about things the pilot group deserve and this and that and blah blah blah.... Geez children, grow up...BTW.. Their contract has nothing to do with getting a JS.

 

[Captain Morgan]

"Divide and Conquer" Some of you seem like you are very intelligent, but I don't know how people with smarts fall for this age old tactic.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Jumpseats and politics don't mix.....

Shame on Hawaiian Pilots.....

Mesa and Go Sucks BTW.....but never drag a jumpseat into it.

 

[Dan Roman]

OK Reality check here. I guess this rumor started because our recent MEC update came out with a response to an isolated incident. They made it very clear the last thing we want is a "jumpseat war". Go pilots have been riding on us with no problem.

Something to consider though, we have a lot of ex AQ pilots flying for us. So it is understandable that some would not be all that stoked about having a Go pilot on board, which is how the problem arose. Also, we do have to be vigilant if Mesa is trying to us the jumpseat for pilots traveling on company business to save money when relocating crews to Hawaii. This is a big no no.

But the bottom line is we are not instigating a jumpseat war, it was an isolated incident that the MEC wants to make sure that it doesn't happen again.

 

[say again]

OK Reality check here. I guess this rumor started because our recent MEC update came out with a response to an isolated incident. They made it very clear the last thing we want is a "jumpseat war". Go pilots have been riding on us with no problem.

Something to consider though, we have a lot of ex AQ pilots flying for us. So it is understandable that some would not be all that stoked about having a Go pilot on board, which is how the problem arose. Also, we do have to be vigilant if Mesa is trying to us the jumpseat for pilots traveling on company business to save money when relocating crews to Hawaii. This is a big no no.

But the bottom line is we are not instigating a jumpseat war, it was an isolated incident that the MEC wants to make sure that it doesn't happen again.

Thanks for clarifying Dan, as one who actually knows the situation. We all know this is how rumors start, and explode!!

 

[Jim]

^ What Dan said.

It's been 2 years since I flew interisland, but when I did I never had a Captain deny a Go/Mesa pilot a jumpseat. And this was in the time frame when they were under-cutting ticket prices, HA was in court with them over their business practices, and AQ was fighting for their survival.

On the 767, I see Go/Meas pilots all the time traveling to/from the mainland. Again, I've never once had a Caption deny one.

This was a couple of isolated incidents that our jumpseat coordinator and MEC moved quickly to crush. There is no jumpseat war and there never has been.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Jumpseats and politics don't mix.....

Shame on Hawaiian Pilots.....

Mesa and Go Sucks BTW.....but never drag a jumpseat into it.

Go pilots, via their management contributed to the demise of Aloha. Good on th HA guys!
PBR

 

[Cloudroller]

Go pilots, via their management contributed to the demise of Aloha. Good on th HA guys!
PBR

GO Pilots had nothing to do with the demise of Aloha. Why dont you point your finger at JO or some other management guys.

 

[ual321]

It's about time that somebody figured out that MESA is Deadheading crews on other airlines Jumpseats.

 

[say again]

Go pilots, via their management contributed to the demise of Aloha. Good on th HA guys!
PBR

via their management?? I seriously hope you are kidding, though I doubt you are. of course we all didn't want to see the demise of Aloha, but to blame the pilots for managements decision is pure ignorance.

 

[HAL]

I did have a talk with one Captain who was about to deny a Go! pilot the jumpseat on our flight. He was angry that they had forced so many of his Aloha friends out of work - and that they should have known that when they signed on at Mesa. But I pointed out that any pilot flying for Go! right now was hired well before the whole Go/Aloha/Mokulele debacle. I tried to convince him that it wasn't this pilot's fault about what happened to Aloha, but rather the management's fault at both Aloha and Mesa. He relented that time, but I know he'd denied JS'ers before, and probably did again. It's my guess that he was the reason the memo came out, as I haven't heard of any other Captains denying Mesa jumpseaters.

HAL

 

[dooork]

It's about time that somebody figured out that MESA is Deadheading crews on other airlines Jumpseats.

More BS. MESA has no way of deadheading a crew on a jumpseat.

 

[spitfire1500]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[HAL]

More BS. MESA has no way of deadheading a crew on a jumpseat.

No, unfortunately not BS. When Mesa was starting up their Go! operation, they simply told several of their crew members to 'get to Hawaii', on their own. I met two of these guys trying to get to HNL and they confirmed it. Word quickly spread to our jumpseat committee, then back to the MAG union, who put a stop to it right away.

HAL

 

[Dan Roman]

I recently heard of a Mainland based Go pilot using the jumpseat to go fly in Hawaii on temp duty, may or may not be the case, I wasn't there. We do need to be vigilante for Mesa sending pilots to Hawaii to work and not paying their way over here.

 

[dooork]

No, unfortunately not BS. When Mesa was starting up their Go! operation, they simply told several of their crew members to 'get to Hawaii', on their own. I met two of these guys trying to get to HNL and they confirmed it. Word quickly spread to our jumpseat committee, then back to the MAG union, who put a stop to it right away.

HAL

They chose to do that...fine....MESA did not make them.

 

[HAL]

They chose to do that...fine....MESA did not make them.

No, it was not a choice - it was their only means of getting to Hawaii since Mesa did not buy them a ticket to HNL! That is the point we're trying to make here. Mesa just assumed they could save money by not buying their pilots a ticket, but the jumpseat rules go against that. If you are transferred to a new base, the airline is supposed to get you there.

HAL

 

[dooork]

No, it was not a choice - it was their only means of getting to Hawaii since Mesa did not buy them a ticket to HNL! That is the point we're trying to make here. Mesa just assumed they could save money by not buying their pilots a ticket, but the jumpseat rules go against that. If you are transferred to a new base, the airline is supposed to get you there.

HAL

Really? Just what do you know about whats in OUR contract. Did they get TDY'ed? Involuntary displacement? Did they bid for it? It does not sound like you know the whole story. Thats the point I am trying to make! Not all situations require MESA to buy them a ticket. If it was a situation that required MESA to buy them a ticket and they did not...then you don't go, if they threaten you you call your ALPA rep....it will be taken care of....what would you do.....GET IT!

 

[dooork]

P.S. Do I put it past some people in certain dept. to try something against the contract? certainly not. Do I put it past pilots to not know their contract? certainly not.

 

[waveflyer]

living up to your name doork-

here's the scam my old regional used to do- dhd on my own company which lasted from 5am-midnight buzzing around-or get the cheapest possible nonrev ticket on completely full flights with no priority- knowing full well most pilots will just choose to jumpseat since they'd be wrecked if i did it their way. Or in your case- offering so many bad choices that you end up "choosing" - and then end up having to travel yourself...

They play the game to save money when every other company does it right. Denying this is dumb. Sticking up for it is a complete regional mentality. I'm from the regionals- i have a lot of pride coming up from the civilian world- but that mentality needs to die.

BtW- doesn't matter what loopholes Mesa is exploiting in a crappy regional contract- the jumpseat is not supposed to be used for company transportation and official business. You're trying to blur the line between a commute and the opening of a base- and the flow of new pilots being transferred into and out of a base.

 

[dooork]

living up to your name doork-

here's the scam my old regional used to do- dhd on my own company which lasted from 5am-midnight buzzing around-or get the cheapest possible nonrev ticket on completely full flights with no priority- knowing full well most pilots will just choose to jumpseat since they'd be wrecked if i did it their way. Or in your case- offering so many bad choices that you end up "choosing" - and then end up having to travel yourself...

They play the game to save money when every other company does it right. Denying this is dumb. Sticking up for it is a complete regional mentality. I'm from the regionals- i have a lot of pride coming up from the civilian world- but that mentality needs to die.

BtW- doesn't matter what loopholes Mesa is exploiting in a crappy regional contract- the jumpseat is not supposed to be used for company transportation and official business. You're trying to blur the line between a commute and the opening of a base- and the flow of new pilots being transferred into and out of a base.

I am not trying to blur anything. Know your contract and follow it.

 

[waveflyer]

Well I wouldn't blame HAL for wanting to verify that everything in the Mesa contract jives with their jumpseat agreement. Especially when dealing with regional pilots who feel more pressure not to stand up to their company when they ask them to bend the rules-

how many outstanding grievances does Mesa have right now? 4 years ago it was in the thousands... So "grieve it" may not be effective.

 

[HAL]

dooork, I understand you defending your colleagues, however this was a pretty cut & dried case, as the Go! operation was about to begin, meaning a new base was about to open up. These pilots were being transferred to the base, and the company wasn't giving them any means to get to Hawaii. Now of course Mesa doesn't have an official 'means of deadheading crews on the jumpseat', because it's illegal. They just didn't give these guys any other method of getting to Hawaii other than buying a ticket or jumpseating. Yes, it was the word of the two pilots, undefended by Mesa. But really, if Mesa had bought them a ticket to Hawaii, why would they have asked for jumpseats and said it was the only way?

HAL

 

[Hamburger]

GO Pilots had nothing to do with the demise of Aloha. Why dont you point your finger at JO or some other management guys.

I'm not 100% on the details of the situation.

Is GO! an alter ego situation a la Trans States/Gojets where pilots on an existing seniority list blatantly side-stepped seniority at their own company?

Did every single pilot at Go! get junior manned to Hawaii from PHX or did the bid for Hawaii with no other purpose than to undercut Aloha?

For what it's worth, I hear the Go! guys are getting exactly the screwing they deserve from Big Daddy O. Paying for their own lodging even though they are TDY, changing bases to a different island every few weeks to insure they can't afford to live out there, Haven't been home for months because their schedules aren't commutable..............

Hawaii is a Small place. When you go out there and put the locals out of work, you'd better expect that they're not going to be happy about it.

 

[wscrj]

Burger, mush of what you've heard is correct, however "GO" is not an alter-ego. Most of the guys out there have been displaced there due to furloughs.

Expecting a guy to jumpseat for company business was a regular tactic used by YV management. They were caught MANY times positive spacing crews on a US Air flight for an America West flight (pre-merger). Most guys would stop it cold before it happened, but a few were too junior or too clueless to notice it was wrong. Management counted on this...