Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Hawaiian Finalizes Airbus Deal

  • Thread starter Thread starter Hansoma
  • Start date Start date
  • Watchers Watchers 9

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Galley Pay????

http://starbulletin.com/2008/02/05/business/story04.html

Hopefully we'll see some hiring soon...

PS: Do us all a favor and save your Airbus rants for somewhere else.

Article says the FA's made some good gains in their contract achieving among other things "galley pay" What in the hekk is galley pay?
Hope the Airbus will compete well with the 787's that AQ is thinking of buying......
 
This is so not a dis!

http://starbulletin.com/2008/02/05/business/story04.html

Hopefully we'll see some hiring soon...

PS: Do us all a favor and save your Airbus rants for somewhere else.

Hansoma -

There is a quote in the article that states, ""The bottom line is we decided we'd just be better off with the planes then without because of the potential of growth, profitability and security," Sampson said."

That just kills me....I've been watching you guys over there hit home run after home run after home run. Every day I pull into HNL and see between 11 and 18 767's WRAPPED around the terminal I just laugh. You guys are simply kicking ass.

The twist to the deal is the mentality.

We both know never to trust management. Every time they say they have to have something now means they can wait six months. Every time they say we are barely getting by they end up throwing bonuses around to everyone except the rank and file employee. And most of all, if they say that simply can't afford xyz right now...well, frankly, yeah they can or they wouldn't have 'preliminarily inked' a deal in the first place.

I wonder what really caused the deal to go through for you guys... Seriously though, congrats! It took me seven years to figure it out, but my survival is tied into yours. Never understood why, but man, it is so true.

Drop me a PM when you get a chance...haven't heard about your move back....

AQ
 
Sampson said the pilots initially were seeking more money to operate the A330s, but "it became apparent the company didn't have any money to fund a higher rate at this time."

1. If this is, in fact, true--which is hard to believe--shouldn't the increased labor cost of operating the 330s have been a part of the company's budget for this purchase?

2. Another "successful" negotiation by the union.
 
In the end, I think this is still good for the HA pilots, despite the lack of increased rates for flying the 330. As much as most pilot groups hate to admit it, growth is a good thing, and has actual, substantial value attached to it; quicker upgrades, better base assignments, etc.

The additional items we asked for, (pay, vacation, sickleave, etc) are still to be negotiated under regular contract talks, which will have to be mediated if there is no agreement by mid-September.

If we could just get everyone to realize that it isn't personal, that the company isn't 'out to get them', that it really is just a business decision, then we'd all be in a better position when it comes to negotiations. If we can go in with a calm steely-eyed determination, and not fall to the emotional aspect, (same as the management negotiators do), we'd be better off. For anyone who demands "I want XYZ, and won't take any less!", they don't understand that if mangement did the same, there would be no agreements and every airline would collapse in strikes. Face it; negotiations require give and take on both sides. Yes, management has given in too, otherwise we'd be flying for free, and last time I looked, there was a nice row of numbers on my W-2 this year.

And speaking of emotional distractions, dammit AQ Pilot, that avatar keeps making me lose my train of... um... where am I???

As for me and Hansoma, it'll be a tough job, but we just have to get used to being called bad names by our aircraft. Retard, Retard!

HAL
 
Last edited:
Hal, you're definitely right, this is a good thing for you guys. I really don't think anyone believed ALPA scuttled the deal no matter what we read in the morning fish wrapper. Contrary to what we all like to believe, management usually knows where it stands with its labor costs before they go out and make a large agreement such as they have here...

What exactly is the status over there for you guys anyhow? You have everyone back from furlough? How are upgrades looking? When was your junior captain hired?

And yeah, thanks, that avatar of mine can get a bit distracting from time to time.... fortunately for me she's young and likes shiny things so she's fairly easy to keep amused ;0) God if she ever read these boards.......
 
Status for us is about normal. We only have six left on furlough. I think they would have been brought back but they had to re-do the last vacancy bid when the age 65 rule came into effect. We did have nine people resign off the list, and another twelve or so take 2-year LOA's offered by the company. Upgrades are slow, but that is SOP for us. Junior 767 Captain was hired April '92, and junior 717 Captain was hired January '99. That sounds like a big difference, but there's only about 25 slots between the two people (no hiring from '92 to late '98). We originally had our last '92 hire on the 767 Captain list, but the age 65 thing bumped him back to 717. With the hiring boom we had in '99 through '01, my hire date was less than a year after the junior 717 Captain's, but unless there's signifigant growth (i.e. lots of A330's) I'm probably looking at six or more years to upgrade. That's just life in the seniority lane...

It's still good to be here.

HAL
 
Hansoma -

There is a quote in the article that states, ""The bottom line is we decided we'd just be better off with the planes then without because of the potential of growth, profitability and security," Sampson said."

That just kills me....I've been watching you guys over there hit home run after home run after home run. Every day I pull into HNL and see between 11 and 18 767's WRAPPED around the terminal I just laugh. You guys are simply kicking ass.

The twist to the deal is the mentality.

We both know never to trust management. Every time they say they have to have something now means they can wait six months. Every time they say we are barely getting by they end up throwing bonuses around to everyone except the rank and file employee. And most of all, if they say that simply can't afford xyz right now...well, frankly, yeah they can or they wouldn't have 'preliminarily inked' a deal in the first place.

I wonder what really caused the deal to go through for you guys... Seriously though, congrats! It took me seven years to figure it out, but my survival is tied into yours. Never understood why, but man, it is so true.

Drop me a PM when you get a chance...haven't heard about your move back....

AQ


AQ,
You made two points that are connected, in my mind.
Our "Home Runs" as you said are a result of our mentality. First off, you well know not do draw conclusions from the newspapers and equally erronous would be the rumor mill at our repective airlines. The only "truth" is the results. I think Hawaiian has done pretty well in the 21st century and the results prove me out. Of course we don't trust management, this is America pal, it's OK for a few people in power to screw thousands, but given our circumstances I think we have done a pretty good job of getting the most out of whatever situation we have found ourselves in.
In this case, we have new Airbuse's coming at very attractive rates, in addition at least 3 used ones will be coming on line starting in 2008 along with new destinations. Our MEC got some contract improvements along with assuring good crew rest facilities on all flights over 8 hours and good ammunition going into section 6 contract negotiations.
The individuals at Hawaiian who are attacking this deal have a record of attacking whatever comes up (ironiclly, if you look at their record they have a long history of being mostly wrong). Most of us are quite pleased with the MEC's handling of this deal.
You're spot on that both our airlines are better off because of the other, sounds like you guys did well in your recent negotiations, congrats and good luck except for one thing....THAT LOOKS LIKE MY WIFE YOU SOB WERE DO YOU LIVE???
 
Hal - I hear ya on the seniority sit... this age 65 thing kicked a lot of us in the nut$ ;0)

Dan - You and I've had many a discussions along these lines. I don't know how you relate 'your (the pilots)' mentality and home runs. I was more looking at management mentality being the difference between our two companies.

While you probably wouldn't go out of your way to swerve to avoid one of your upper management on a dark and stormy night, at least you wouldn't back up just to make a point. Some over here might back up, pull forward, and back up again to mark their disdain for certain members of our 'upper elite.'

Like I said before, I sit back and laugh as you guys are basically taking over the airport while we are over here renting an extra airplane for 6 months to get us through our maintenance cycles. But like Hal says, it's good to be where I is...

As for that avatar being your wife....hmmm....if it is, would you hurry up and finish paying for her law school? That $hits expensive! And at 23 she hasn't had a chance to divorce anyone, er, I mean save up any money!

AQ :0)
 
Kool deal for you guys! Right on! More planes and more bigger planes can't be a bad thing. Wish you guys all the best! :beer:
 
Hey Hal and Hansoma,
How about putting a good word from one of your buds from Useless Airways when the hiring gets going again? It seems that my career (if you could call it that) is being sidetracked/highjacked by the most self-serving pilot group in the industry.

Airbus experience and easily trained.

Hansoma,
Hows the commute over the pass going?
 

Latest resources

Back
Top Bottom