Have you checked performance #s?

[gulfstreameric]

Power to the people

We departed LFPB yesterday, and ATC asked us to keep the climb @ ta least 4k, so we gave them 5. After passing FL 150 about 3 min later we accelerated to 320 kts to make up for lost ground speed.
Like they say in the US of A, bigger is better.

Performance that is, and yes we do you use steroids, kerosene

 

[rice]

Nope.

1. They don't have my aircraft.

2. I'm not spending $1200 to get information that I can produce for free!

Putting it in perspective. That $1200 is roughly 200 gal of fuel. If you don't think Ultra-Nav or EFBPro can save you that and more each year, you're in the wrong business and not doing all you can to reduce costs for the boss.

 

[Lead Sled]

We departed LFPB yesterday, and ATC asked us to keep the climb @ ta least 4k, so we gave them 5. After passing FL 150 about 3 min later we accelerated to 320 kts to make up for lost ground speed.
Like they say in the US of A, bigger is better.

Performance that is, and yes we do you use steroids, kerosene

Huh???

 

[Lead Sled]

Putting it in perspective. That $1200 is roughly 200 gal of fuel. If you don't think Ultra-Nav or EFBPro can save you that and more each year, you're in the wrong business and not doing all you can to reduce costs for the boss.

Well said, howeever in his behalf, evidently Ultra-Nav doesn't have his airplane and you can't buy something from them that they don't have. However, there are other suppliers (EFBPro) that provide similar programs that would probably accomodate his airplane.

LJ was spot on, in the real world, no one pulls out the charts for day-to-day operations - at least as long as they have tab data that they can refer to and use. There's nothing wrong with that, but you need to understand the limitations of using tab data. For many of us this means that the only time they ever break out the charts is once or twice a year during the performance class during our recurrent training - hardly enough to stay proficient with the unwieldy and convoluted procedures involved.

That being said, you also need to understand the limitations of using programs live Ultra-Nav and EFBPro. Like I said in an earlier post on this thread, the real answer is airport analysis and a program like Ultra-Nav - APG will tell you what your weight limitations will be and provide you with alternate procedures if required. Ultra-Nav can then be used to quickly come up with the appropriate numbers.

LS

 

[THE Flying Ace]

We use both Ultra-Nav and airport analysis from APG. The $1200 spent on Ultra-Nav and the $600 for APG is in my opinion worth every penny. Quick numbers from Ultra-Nav and alternate departure info for airports which allows us to take the extra fuel if needed and make it non-stop home. Also APG along with Ultra-Nav allows me from home to easily make the decision on which airport I can buy the most fuel at the best price.

That gives me more time to play with my kids and less time going cross-eyed looking at manuals.

 

[ksu_aviator]

Putting it in perspective. That $1200 is roughly 200 gal of fuel. If you don't think Ultra-Nav or EFBPro can save you that and more each year, you're in the wrong business and not doing all you can to reduce costs for the boss.

Wow, you completely missed it. The point was that I could extrapolate all of the numbers on my own and not spend $1200 for something I could do for free. Nav or EFBPro only save me money if I'm spending money....I'M NOT SPENDING ANY MONEY!

I bet you bought a $30,000 Prius so that you could save $50 a month on gas.

 

[Gear Up!]

oh geez.....

 

[jet2work]

I'd like to point out that airport analyses are company specific. You have to pay a vendor to develop the analysis for the specific airport and your airplane. I agree they're great, but the cost is prohibitive.

Check out APG. They have most Corporate Aircraft and Roger Hemphill can give you a presentation that explains quite clearly what you can and cannot do. It also will enlighten you to close in obstacles and TORA, TODA, etc. By next year you will all be familiar with this as you will be required to have an LOA to close the loophole that has let us 91 guys launch without regard to obstacle clearance. Get APG even for airports that you wouldn't normally consider to be climb limited or hazardous (Like KAPF).

Ultra Nav is great. It's funny how much you can learn about your aircraft's performance from Ultra Nav. It's only about $1000 for unlimited licenses within your flight department. Again, if you are flying a jet and can't afford $1000 bucks for a safety tool like Ultra Nav, I just have to shake my head. Hell, get a bootleg copy and and see for yourself.

APG only costs $75.00 per AC per month. About the same cost as running your APU for 10 minutes.

Lead Sled has put forth some of the best information that I have seen on this board.

At the end of the day. A guy in a Caravan or Pilatus can take off out of Aspen with 1000 and 3 and a Guy in a Citation cannot. That is the FAA and Lawyers there to help you.