• NC Software is having a Black Friday Sale Event thru December 4th on Logbook Pro, APDL - Airline Pilot Logbook, Cirrus Elite Binders, and more. Use coupon code BF2020 at checkout to redeem 15% off your purchase. Click here to shop now.
  • NC Software is proud to announce the release of APDL - Airline Pilot Logbook version 10.0. Click here to view APDL on the Apple App store and install now.

Had enough yet?

Imissmypilot

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Posts
536
Total Time
7500
Another sign of desperation! The card drive is turning out to be another failure. FW claims the response has been good, but if that were true, they would have had an announcement by now. Now assume we loose Union representation, what do you think would happen? Not get another raise for 10 years? Just ask the people in the office.

Not so sure about that. My understanding is the Teamster drive stayed just a hair under the threshold for months. Do not underestimate these guys. If it's true some of the rumoured tactics are a reality then I certainly wouldn't.

However, the length of time it's taking does not look good for their actual chances of winning a vote. I know for a fact a good percentage of cards were sent in under false pretenses and misunderstanding. They were conned into believing this was a simple representation vote. Choice A or Choice B. They had no idea we could actually lose all representation. You point that out to these guys and they start asking how to get their card back. I've had that conversation at least a dozen times.

Phil better be careful about all the "laws" he's so happy to point out. Because I'll tell you what: I'm willing to personally sue them into bankruptcy if their ruse ****s up my career. There's a difference between unfortunate and unavoidable fairness that causes a pilot to "lose" (like arbritrated contract issues) and culpable fraud.
 

GlorifiedCabbie

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 20, 2013
Posts
1,220
Total Time
15+
Yes, you are not the only one waiting to sue. Their plan includes suing the successor union and all of the participants individually. I will bet it will cost them more than 1.56%.
 

GlorifiedCabbie

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 20, 2013
Posts
1,220
Total Time
15+
So, If these bigshots are making 200,000 (just to make the numbers easy) times 2% (not 1.56% to make the numbers easy) that equals 4,000. So, take the top 20 anti-union guys and sue them individually. That gives them $80,000. The company has taught the Union council how to delay and drive up the litigation costs. I am not privy to the litigation expenses, but I would guess $ 80.000 would not last more than 8 sessions. Just like the company tried to bankrupt the local, without help loyal support from national. Individuals that have been wronged by the company and don't get proper representation, have a cause for action and opens them to litigation. Do these individuals participating in the decert vote really thing the company has their back?
 
Last edited:

Imissmypilot

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Posts
536
Total Time
7500
Frank'n'Beans owe the pilots several things if they are to be considered seriously:

1.) A list of the name and numbers of the pilot organizing committee. They required it from the IBT so why not the same transparency?

2.) A written and signed guarantee they intend to form a union and represent by these POC members. If it's less than say 10, then an explanation of how that's going to work with just a handful of people and no oversight entity assisting them... I also believe the union released their interim negotiating committee names this early on to so I want to know who's going to negotiate on my behalf.

3.) A timeline regarding their priorities - is it ISL, CBA negotiations (remember its way more than section 6 type talks if we start over) Weingarten rights security. Do pilots really want to risk starting from complete scratch regarding even simple but abused issues such as fatigue call process without an idea of the plan to get these things back and an associated timeline?

4.) The name of the legal firm we will retain for purposes of this new representation and a schedule of their fees, especially in regard to travel neccessary for representation at negotiations. They should know this by now or else they are not serious regarding representing us.

5.) The positions they intend to fill (and how) for administration as well as the proposed location of administrative offices. Will it be Cleveland (makes more sense) or Dallas?

6.) A financial plan. How will dues he collected? When will dues start? What percentage? How will expenses be paid for things like negotiations, grievance hearings, travel etc...

There's more but I have a feeling since they will not be able to answer those effectively I do not need to waste my time with more...

Maybe it's time Frank'n'Beans realize these things have to be a lot more concretely thought out than one thinks or Ricci will eat us for lunch. Maybe as regular pilots ponder these things they will see the Frank'n'Beans critical, obstructionist and vitriolic attitude toward the IBT is nothing more than self serving IGMs banter for an audience of one.
 

Imissmypilot

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Posts
536
Total Time
7500
Maybe as regular pilots ponder these things they will see the Frank'n'Beans critical, obstructionist and vitriolic attitude toward the IBT is nothing more than self serving IGMs banter for an audience of one.

Which reminds me I wanted to say if I hear one more IGM claim all of the abuse they've suffered for standing up against the IBT I think I'll vomit. You can't claim abuse when the entire premise of your protest is to "get you some" from the FoK trough. You are cowards and you don't get to me lecture me against using that word, regardless of how quickly "GulfGuy" caved to your silly indignation. The definition of a coward is inherently akin to only being worried about yourself. You do not care about your fellow pilot. You never have and you never will. Some of you sit well below me on the ISL yet you make 100k more because you will willing to screw me. Go cry to your mama. You get no sympathy from me.

For years some of you walked around this company not even knowing our payscale or vacation policy. You would openly brag about not worrying about details. You were that out of touch. Some of you STILL brag you've never read a single union communication, so you don't even know what you are fighting against.

But then when you learned being anti-union could get you some Ricci love you became the resident experts of the NLRB, the NMB, McCaskillBond, the SCOTUS etc... You are jokes. And a cowards. And nothing more than "useful idiots". Ricci loves him a,good obedient useful idiot. A day your IGM status is proof.

A little reality based attack to shed light on your Quid Pro Quo arrangement with Ricci (whether or not you recognize it) is not something you get to whine about you out of touch cowards.
 

el raton

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 15, 2005
Posts
425
Total Time
8000+
Which reminds me I wanted to say if I hear one more IGM claim all of the abuse they've suffered for standing up against the IBT I think I'll vomit. You can't claim abuse when the entire premise of your protest is to "get you some" from the FoK trough. You are cowards and you don't get to me lecture me against using that word, regardless of how quickly "GulfGuy" caved to your silly indignation. The definition of a coward is inherently akin to only being worried about yourself. You do not care about your fellow pilot. You never have and you never will. Some of you sit well below me on the ISL yet you make 100k more because you will willing to screw me. Go cry to your mama. You get no sympathy from me.

For years some of you walked around this company not even knowing our payscale or vacation policy. You would openly brag about not worrying about details. You were that out of touch. Some of you STILL brag you've never read a single union communication, so you don't even know what you are fighting against.

But then when you learned being anti-union could get you some Ricci love you became the resident experts of the NLRB, the NMB, McCaskillBond, the SCOTUS etc... You are jokes. And a cowards. And nothing more than "useful idiots". Ricci loves him a,good obedient useful idiot. A day your IGM status is proof.

A little reality based attack to shed light on your Quid Pro Quo arrangement with Ricci (whether or not you recognize it) is not something you get to whine about you out of touch cowards.

Agree with him or not, I think it’s fair to say that GulfGuy has held his own. And he’s doing it by himself.
 

TexasChallenger

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2015
Posts
78
Total Time
13,000
Agree with him or not, I think it’s fair to say that GulfGuy has held his own. And he’s doing it by himself.

No truer words have ever been said. I feel like I’ll get in the way if I start chiming in! But it would be great for someone like IMMP, who obviously puts a lot of thought into this stuff, to provide some back up fire power.
 

Imissmypilot

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Posts
536
Total Time
7500
No don't get me wrong - I'm extremely appreciative of all GulfGuy does on that board. And after a few initial concerns he was simply teeing up home runs for the opposition I have come to appreciate his work. But in my opinion it is too polite and far from the reality of how angry most of us are about how all of this has all turned out. Additionally, I am still a little off put but his implication that discussions on flightinfo or the vuh are unproductive but it's a personal issue and I'm getting over it.

What I hate for him is his hands are somewhat tied entirely because of the nature of the board: Frank Woelke knows his identity. As a result he has to be very diplomatic. I wonder if he really feels that diplomatic deep down or if he is as pissed as we all ought to be.

In my personal opinion, anonymity is the only way within this pilot group to have honest and meaningful discussion. I am not registered on the porn board because I fear I would not be able to keep from posting. Since I do not trust Frank (for very good fact based reasons) I am not putting my career in jeopardy. So kudos to Gulfguy for being less of a ***** than me.

I posted a list of questions that I'd truly like answered but there's a secondary motive. My hope is as pilots go through the list of questions and consider honest answers some lights might go off in their head. They might realize 1.) We have to have an established union if we have any shot 2.) Perhaps the 1108 has been on the receiving end of some unfair criticism and 3.) We have no one to blame for our current place in the process but ourselves. We keep shooting ourselves in the foot and helping Ricci run his clock.

The fact is the decert drive is a distraction we can't afford. Whether you love the IBT or hate the IBT no longer matters. Our backs are up against a wall and we can't afford to remain splintered, childish or apathetic. Ricci continuing this silly arbitration in light of what is essentially Supreme Court saying he has no case should be a signal to us our lack of solidarity has handed him a deck of cards we must get back. The time to be anything other than 100% unified has passed. The debate has been fun but it's time to tell Frank'n'Beans to take a hike.
 
Top