HA pilots reach TA with management

[HAL]

After nearly 3 years of negotiations, a TA is in hand. I'll be interested to see what it contains!

HAL

http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/a...s+reaches+tentative+contract+deal+with+pilots

 

[xanderman]

As will I. I hope it drives some additional hiring so I can get out of the pool and dry off!!!!!

 

[HAL]

Latest rumor is another bid for about 30 coming out early next year. Don't know any more details than that though.

HAL

 

[xanderman]

Read a rumor on another site that says pay was increased something on the order of 20%! I find this hard to believe in this economic environment. Any HA pilots care to put that one to rest? What other provisions are worthy of water cooler talk?

 

[FlickerFade]

Read a rumor on another site that says pay was increased something on the order of 20%! I find this hard to believe in this economic environment. Any HA pilots care to put that one to rest? What other provisions are worthy of water cooler talk?

Over the life of the 5 year contract, that's exactly what was expected.

It will be the first pay increases in 10 years at Hawaiian.

 

[Lear70]

That's not surprising:

If it IS correct at 20% (I don't have any insider info) and let's just say there's 6% raises on Date of Signing and 3.5% a year for 4 more years, total 5 year agreement, 20% total, I'd say that's not exactly stellar, not even COLA from when the CBA was amendable. I wouldn't vote for that at AAI.

You need 3% for every year you didn't get a contract raise while you were negotiating and 3% COLA on top of that every year after D.O.S. or you're losing money every year you stay at the same wage, especially the topped-out guys at year 10 or 12 or wherever your scale caps at.

Better be great work rule improvements and/or retirement to boost that number. 10 years without COLA adjustments to wages? That's 36% or thereabouts (when compounded yearly) just to account for inflation!

 

[scoreboardII]

Is the new standard for negotiations a minimum length of 3 plus years?

 

[PCL_128]

That's not surprising:

If it IS correct at 20% (I don't have any insider info) and let's just say there's 6% raises on Date of Signing and 3.5% a year for 4 more years, total 5 year agreement, 20% total, I'd say that's not exactly stellar, not even COLA from when the CBA was amendable. I wouldn't vote for that at AAI.

You need 3% for every year you didn't get a contract raise while you were negotiating and 3% COLA on top of that every year after D.O.S. or you're losing money every year you stay at the same wage, especially the topped-out guys at year 10 or 12 or wherever your scale caps at.

Better be great work rule improvements and/or retirement to boost that number. 10 years without COLA adjustments to wages? That's 36% or thereabouts (when compounded yearly) just to account for inflation!

Have you looked at their current pay rates lately? A 20% raise would put them right in line with the new pattern that has been established by Alaska and JetBlue. The new pattern is right around $180/hr for SNB rates, and WB rates in the $210/hr range by end of contract. You can reasonably demand an extra few percent in the name of pattern bargaining (jacking up the house one corner at a time), but you can't expect the NMB to allow a demand for 36% raises when 20% would put you in range of the established bargaining pattern.

 

[xanderman]

I am sorry. I was not thinking... I saw the new (rumored) rates and thought they were reflecting the new (immediate) rates. I forgot these things get spread out... My bad.

 

[Lear70]

Have you looked at their current pay rates lately? A 20% raise would put them right in line with the new pattern that has been established by Alaska and JetBlue. The new pattern is right around $180/hr for SNB rates, and WB rates in the $210/hr range by end of contract. You can reasonably demand an extra few percent in the name of pattern bargaining (jacking up the house one corner at a time), but you can't expect the NMB to allow a demand for 36% raises when 20% would put you in range of the established bargaining pattern.

Well, part of the problem is that I can't see their pay rates on APC to know where they were starting from or the new rates that are negotiated.

I agree, in general terms, that negotiating industry leading pay scales from a company that isn't making industry leading profits (HAL), would be difficult, but I have to say, in principle, with a profitable company, I would never agree to anything less than COLA rates unless the rate/work rule combination served to increase the wages in the same total amount equal to COLA or better.

I don't really give a rat's WHAT the rest of the industry is doing IF my company was profitable at the pay rates before they became amendable and is still profitable 3, 5, 7, 10 years later and COLA just happens to put those raises above the industry average because the company stalled for so many years. If my company is profitable, they can afford to pay COLA every year at the bare minimum.

The other thing I'm expecting to see from just about everyone bargaining these days with companies that drag things out for half a decade or longer is an AUTOMATIC COLA adjustment every year AFTER the contract becomes amendable. Remove the incentive for the company to stall and we'd start having some serious negotiating leverage.

I remember a time when you thought the same way, amigo...