Gulftstream Academy

[Anaconda]

atp is a not a part 141 school...

i don't think you need more dual or tng time. short of the ATP rating you already have all of the ratings you need. you wouldn't get that much time getting an atp anyway.

 

[DCitrus9]

"It's very frustrating to learn that the 20 years I spent flying all over the world, in a very demanding environment and in a very demanding aircraft, doesn't amount to "paying my dues". "

You have definitely paid your dues and gathered a great deal of experience. You seem to be in a position to be hired. Why then would you pay someone to allow you to fly? It seems kind of odd doesn't it? There are jobs flying airplanes and helos in which you will be paid. They are scarce right now, but I encourage you to find them and avoid pft programs. Best of luck.

 

[bobbysamd]

G.I. Bill

Aero99 is correct. When I was at MAPD in 1993, there were several students who were using G.I. Bill benefits to pay for their training. I recall of at least a couple who were Gulf War vets. I had one student who had been in the AF in Germany who did not serve in the Gulf War. I had another student at Mesa who was a rated Army helo pilot. He had a Commercial with rotorcraft-helicopter and instrument-helicopter. As far as I knew, all of these people were using the G.I. Bill to pay for their training.

By the way, MAPD is not P-F-T. The people who go through MAPD are ab initio students and are not hired by Mesa at enrollment. Compare it to Comair, except that MAPD grads do not have to instruct before getting their interviews.

Eagle Jet International has drawn plenty of reaction here. Try running a search on it.

 

[publisher]

Bobby, a tremendous amount has happened in twelve months let alone 10 years.

Anyone who thinks that helo/fixed wing conversion is not a problem is not talking to a bunch of coast guard, army, or marine helo pilots.

 

[bobbysamd]

Gotta try

Doesn't it depend in large measure to the amount of airplane time? I can understand it if the folks in question have less than 100 of multiengine airplane. Our poster, with 150, isn't that far away.

I think the answer is to send out resumes and await results. I know that it is hard for high helo time-low airplane time pilots to break in with the majors, especially now. But, if the regionals will hire with 200 hours of multi, I think it is worth a try. Nonetheless, it is my feeling that at least 300-500 multi will be more competitive.

I wanted to clarify two points in my post above. In 1993, MAPD was a 141 school. I doubt that has changed. My Army helo student was low-time, something like 300 hours in the Reserves or Guards, but all in rotorcraft before he came to Mesa.

Once again, the helo experience stands one in good stead. My first instrument student was an ex-Huey pilot who did just fine for me in the airplane. He was only my second student, so we flew extra just (for me) to be sure.

 

[skiddriver]

Soleary,

I have an admitted bias for attack guys (3000 hrs AH-1 time here) so I'll share my experience.

I have a marginally more total time than you. My FW time is 750, my ME Turbine is 600. Okay, that's more than you do. I lucked out on my last tour and got C-12's.

But my point is, that with a preponderance of helo time, in the last two post 9-11 months, I've gotten job offers from Comair and Piedmont, and an interview invite from EJA.

Your experience does count for something. You just need to get the numbers required to get an interview. How to do that?

First, find a 141 school that takes GI Bill and get all of your fixed wing ratings. I have a CFI SEL that I'm never going to use in anger. But Uncle Sammy paid for almost all of it, including 60% of the 40 hours of flight time it took. Max out those hours. You'll not only expand your logbook, you'll learn something.

Then... buy some time. I got lucky and got my last tour in C-12's. You didn't. Make up the difference. If you're retiring from the military, you're somewhere between 38 and 50 something. You don't have a bunch of time to Richard around. You should have some money stashed away however. Use it however you see fit. It's your money, it's your life, it's your career. You spent 20+ years busting your nut for your country; it's time to take care of yourself and your family.

Good luck and thanks for your honorable service. I wish you an enjoyable and rewarding second career.

Semper fi,

Travis

21 days...

 

[bobbysamd]

G.I. Bill and Flight Training

Very constructive post above, especially the suggestion about using G.I. Bill benies on the fixed-wing ratings.

In that regard, I'd look for a 141 school that provides the most multi hours possible. Then, you'll get some real bang for Uncle Sam's buck. For example, All ATPs, http://www.allatps.com . Run a search on the board for opinions. It's firehose training, but someone with your experience should be able to handle it. Plenty of people here have raved about the place. The program most discussed is the zero time to MEI in 90 days for $32K. You just want to be sure your school is a 14 CFR 141 for your G.I. benies.

Once again, there are dozens of companies who would love to have someone like you. Good luck with your decisions.

PS-I just read the thread on Comair and hiring at low times. There was a post that Commutair was interviewing at 100 multi. Of course, a lot of what you see is hearsay, but it seemed worthy of mention.

 

[starchkr]

I will have to agree with the reply above that asks why you don't just stay with helo's. With the kind of time and experience you have in them, i would think any of them would snatch you up in a minute. I am sure they get paid pretty well to do what they do.

There are two companies that i know of that fly helo's from HOU (there are more, i only know of these two though), one is TEX-AIR HELICOPTERS and the other i cannot recall off the top of my head, but it is the next hangar over from Tex-Air. Tex-Air (while i don't know exactly what they do) flys some really BEAUTIFUL Eurocopters. I watch them take in some old faded paint job bird and literally strip it down and replace everthing with new equipment, and then they paint them in some awesome colors and scheme's. I know they own most of them, because they put their logo on the sides, and i am sure if they were just refurb'ing them and selling them they wouldn't do that. Anyway, that is one place to try, and i still cannot recall the other one, but i know they fly long rangers and they have a really nice Bell 222.

Aside from those two, i know there are many oil rig operators in the area, along with many more along the gulf coast. Plus you can try the medical operators... that's what i always wanted to do if i was going to fly helicopters.

I guess like it was said above, there are just so many operators out there with helo's that i would at least try them first, and then if that is just a deadend then think about other options.

Oh yeah, by the way, if you really HAVE to do the pft thing, look other places besides the two that continually come up on this board. I know of at least a couple that you can get twice as many multi turbine hours at for the same if not less than the price of the "infamous" two above. Do some deeper research and you too will find them. But just to save my own rear from the criticism of the others on the board i must now say that " I DO NOT AGREE WITH PFT." Whew, saved just in the nick of time.

Good luck with your future plans, and who knows in six months things could be completely different.

 

[soleary]

thanks again

Again, thanks to all who have participated in this discussion. Let me clarify a few concepts that many have been going with, but that don't apply to me.

I entered the service during that short time when there was NO G.I. Bill or anything else for that matter. So any training I take comes straight out of my pocket. I seriously need the best bang for my buck.

I looked into the helicopter route, but the hiring is as slow now as the airlines and the pay is worse. The best I could find around CAPPED OUT at $45,000 a year after 10 YEARS! Of course they aren't even accepting resumes.

As for helicopter time counting, it depends. Some places count it as total time only, the turbine time doesn't count at all. I look just like somebody with 3000 hours in a 152, except it's not even as good as a 152 because it's not in a fixed wing. Other places do count it, so there is no hard and fast answer, though the trend is towards the first. I had one guy tell me he would rather I had the 152 time.

BTW What is it about helicopter time that is so undervalued? Is it the two annual checkrides we must take? Is it the hours spent flying around at night less than 200 feet off the trees at over 100 knots? Is it the fact that I have to maintain instrument proficiency even though I'm not flying an instrument legal aircraft? Is it the fact that I've had to do all this in foriegn countries with no ATC and no other assistance all while people are shooting at me? Or is it the fact that in an attack aircraft like the AH-64 simply flying the aircraft in these types of environments is expected to be second nature so that I can focus my mind on the tactical situation and try not to get myself or my crew killed. Or even worse accidently killing another American on the ground with my weapons. Somebody please explain to me how this is such worthless training in aircraft handling, CRM, decision making and stress management as to be uncountable!

I'm sorry. Sour grapes. I just had to get it off my chest. Please forgive me.

Lastly, since I already have Commercial w/Instrument in MEL and Helicopter I don't really want to spend time and money at a school who's aim is to get you those ratings. I could probably knock out the remaining 70 hours of MEL time I need to take the ATP practical this summer if that's the best route for me. But is it? That will put me at the BARE MINIMUM of 200 hours MEL to get someone to even look at my resume. In today's climate I don't think that's enough. The AVERAGE times for new hires are much higher then that. I feel that the chances are that 200 hrs MEL and an ATP won't get me very far.

I know a lot of you have prejudices against PFTs like Gulfstream because you feel it lets somebody shortcut in front of you. My question to those people is this; In my specific circumstance do you see room for compromise and understanding? I have put 20 years in to this profession already, do I really have to avoid shortcuts at this time in my career because I will jump ahead of somebody who has been at it for 15? Since my helicopter time is not counted for the most part, at this point I am really 20 years BEHIND the pilot who has those ratings and is building time. What's wrong with trying to catch up some?

No, I haven't made up my mind yet what to do. I am still asking for as much input as I can get. Does anybody have specific alternatives they would like to suggest to me. I am open to any opinion or advice.

Thanks again.

 

[Ty Webb]

The problem with Gulfstream is this-

Gulfstream would have to hire, train and pay pilots to be F/O's, if it were not for people who are willing to "rent" the F/O seat for 250 hours. In other words, if you go along with this program, you will be helping them turn an entry-level position into just another aircraft rental.

While you may think that it is justified in your particular circumstance, rest assured that everyone else there thinks they are justified, too. And, for what it is worth, a scab uses the same argument to justify crossing the picket line. I'm not saying that renting an F/O seat at Gulfstream is scabbing, but it is definitely pursuing a selfish path to the detriment of the professional pilot community.

My advice to you is this- take $3500. and get yourself a cheap Citation type (with an ATP!) from that guy out in Carlsbad. FInd a Citation operator in your area, and get some SIC time. That time will be adequate for any regional, and, if the regionals are slow to call, you may end up in the left seat pretty soon, making more than you will at a regional, and getting jet time. Additionally, you will have saved yourself $15,000. and did not help contribute to what is, at best, a questionable practice.

By the way, have you talked, and I mean seriously talked, to anyone who is a recent F/O at the regionals? Because it is hard enough to be sititing reserve for the better part of a year, maintaining a crash pad, etc. on $21,000. per year, without having just spent $18,500. in a misguided attempt to get there sooner!??!

I have a number of friends at both ASA and Comair who were primarily helicopter pilots- (one post 9/11). It will happen for you if you have a little patience.