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Gulfstream Down in the South of France?

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May I suggest a few of you bitchy, whiny old ladies back your arses down before the facts of this tragedy are known.

We all chose this line of work and the risks involved even in this day and age. Before the remains of the crew probably reached room temperature, the mierda starts getting tossed.

Here's what I do know. There are a few posters that probably nailed the UJ description from first or second hand experience.

The slam on the Captain basically makes me puke. From what I understand, this guy was very successful. Why he was flying for these guys, I don't have a clue. I do know the claims that "he had training problems" should be taken with a grain of salt. I've been in the next sim and briefing room with guys having problems, and I don't have a clue to the real issue. I've also been in the same briefing room where a CA was described as having "an attitude problem"(he didn't) and it degenerated to two guys almost 'stepping outside'. put yourself in one possible situation. The B-Fund is at an all time high, your making 5 times your widebody CA pay with other businesses, and you run across a not uncommon AA knucklehead sim instructor or sim CKA and you decide, 'F-it, I've had enough' and retire. Of course you had a 'training problem'.

While I don't remember flying with him by his name in the past, I do remember flying with a very successful builder of very expensive FL homes (as he was)and would have remembered if he was a 'head case'. From looking at past bidding, we both ran in the same circles for years (me as FO) and I don't remember his name as being one of the few "problem children" that every FO knows about. As for 'it's a different world' in P135 or 91, yes I know, that's my pre-121 background and don't get me started.

Here's a 'training problem': For year i did recurrents and was told by the DFW training 'geniuses' that if we get an engine failure on TO, declare an emergency and ask for runway heading to 3000'. For over a decade, I was a 'problem child' because I flew Latin America and told these clowns they can't teach the muscle memory for guys flying 'down south' because many of these airports will get you killed wiith that technique. "Shut up and color" was the basic response to me as the FO. Guess what? Now they are teaching that it's not that smart to use a blanket straight ahead technique like that, and everybody should use their wisdom to keep the line swine alive. I sheet you not, they actually think they invented this crap. I remember another genius telling me how XYZ approach and technique into Quito was the "best way to run things down there". I asked the ace CKA when was the last time he was at UIO, becoming rather indignant at the uppity FO, he replies, " a couples of years ago.....and how many times for you?"


7 times that month at least, 30-50 times in the last year. He of course went on to something else to bamboozle me with.


Just perspective fellas. This guy may have screwed up to our worst expectations, a little respect and restraint will do us all good.

Stay safe.
 
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May I suggest a few of you bitchy, whiny old ladies back your arses down before the facts of this tragedy are known.


Stay safe.

Amen, lots of rock throwing for people living in glass houses!

Our thoughts should be with the families of the deceased and being able to learn something from this incident to make us all better as professionals.

Whether Ujets upper managenment wants to hire a retired airline captain with 30 years experience over a 1200 flight instructor because he let the CEO park his boat at his slip is irrelevant. Sometimes bad things happen and we should wait until we have all the facts before we pass judgment on anyone!!

Soap box departed....
 
Yeah, no need to drag the crews through the mud, but the company does seem to have an issue, not so? 3 fatal accidents in 12 years? (Learjets in 2000 and 2001.)

Also, someone made a comment about the airplane not supposed to be flying (mx?)...so if you know more about that then speak up. As professionals we all need to know about real causes of accidents so we can do our best to avoid them.

From the small video clip I saw attached to one of the online news articles, it LOOKED like the plane went off the side of the runway, not the end....can anyone comment that knows about that?
 
We had just driven down from Monaco to LFTH because we couldn't get parking in Nice either, and were just arriving at the Hyeres airport to check on our plane when the Gulfstream went in at LFMQ 12 miles to the East. The next morning we repositioned to Nice to pick up our pax, and the handler said he had spoken to the crew just prior to their departure. With the exception of ATC, he may have been the last person they spoke to. Maybe it was our similar situation or proximity, but this one hit our crew like a sledge hammer. The fact that so many people lose their humanity just because they sit behind a keyboard is deeply disturbing. Thanks to the last few posters for the correct perspective.

RIP
 
Yeah, we've been sitting in Monaco for the last week. First thing our pax wanted to know was our take on the accident. All we could really say was they were probably tired from the trip over. Maybe, it will give them pause.
 
C-150--Good post.

"If you haven't busted a recurrent checkride at AA, you're not a REAL AA pilot..."

TC
 
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Yeah, we've been sitting in Monaco for the last week. First thing our pax wanted to know was our take on the accident. All we could really say was they were probably tired from the trip over. Maybe, it will give them pause.

I'm sure we must have seen you at the Marriott? We were there for 15 days and checked out the day of the crash. I also thought the same thing about them possibly being tired and forced to repo. When is Nice airport going to realize airplanes aren't going to spontaneously combust if they're not parked on a white line? There's tons of room there if they would just buy a tug a stack airplanes like almost every other busy airport. The mandatory repo is a definitely safety concern.
 
I'm sure we must have seen you at the Marriott? We were there for 15 days and checked out the day of the crash. I also thought the same thing about them possibly being tired and forced to repo. When is Nice airport going to realize airplanes aren't going to spontaneously combust if they're not parked on a white line? There's tons of room there if they would just buy a tug a stack airplanes like almost every other busy airport. The mandatory repo is a definitely safety concern.

Who knew? We were there, just chillin. Glad to move on.
 
C-150--Good post.

"If you haven't busted a recurrent checkride at AA, you're not a REAL AA pilot..."

TC


Last whiz bang copped an attitude because I questioned WTF we were doing flying an approach, expecting to land after doing the BC at SNA, in a 767-300ER.

My luck of the draw getting one of the frustrated private pilot sim instructors thought he was a Check Airman.

The place really sucks at times. When we merged with TWA, my suggestion was to replace the entire DFW training complex with TWA training guys. They ran a truly wordwide airline under trying circumstances. We still have training clowns that act if AA was a domestic airline with one LGW route.
 
Last whiz bang copped an attitude because I questioned WTF we were doing flying an approach, expecting to land after doing the BC at SNA, in a 767-300ER.

My luck of the draw getting one of the frustrated private pilot sim instructors thought he was a Check Airman.

Laughing and crying at the same time.

I'm telling all the USAir people I see to bulldoze GSW and never let anyone who worked there into training at USAir. "Salt the earth."

They just go 'deer in the headlights'. We're doomed. ;)

Hang in there, C150.

TC
 
They don't need to call me.....WE will be calling them soon with information...........but I would welcome a call from the FAA and NTSB. I prefer it from the NTSB....FAA is a joke and already should have shut this shthole operation down.

Another piece of info a CURRENT employee told me yesterday. The OWNER of UJET was on the plane as part of the required 3 pilot crew. Got off in Nice so he could go home. Was supposed to stay on the plane for that last leg according to regs............so maybe a violation there.

Just what I heard yesterday from a CURRENT employee. Actually, employees are leaving fast.

Who in the hell wants the name Universal Jet on their resume.......
 
Another piece of info a CURRENT employee told me yesterday. The OWNER of UJET was on the plane as part of the required 3 pilot crew. Got off in Nice so he could go home. Was supposed to stay on the plane for that last leg according to regs............so maybe a violation there.

What reg are you talking about? It was undoubtedly flown part 91 which would be legal if there were no passengers or cargo on board.
 
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What reg are you talking about? It was undoubtedly flown part 91 which would be legal if there were no passengers or cargo on board.

No idea. I'm hearing something was not legal.....from current employees at UJET. We'll see soon enough.
 
From what I understand if the aircraft is on a 135 certificate, even though its flown empty, reposition, you still have to abide by the crew flight and duty limitations.
As far as the age rule, I believe you can be over 65 and be SIC as long as the PIC is under 60.
 
This is just gonna make SMS even more of an issue! Most of us have it but unless we follow it and practice it, accidents will continue to happen.
 
From what I understand if the aircraft is on a 135 certificate, even though its flown empty, reposition, you still have to abide by the crew flight and duty limitations.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Are you suggesting that an airplane on a pt 135 certificate cannot be flown under pt 91?

You're almost right. According to the pt 135, you must count all flight time from the start of your duty day (including pt 91 flights) until the end of the pt 135 flight. Once the pt 135 flight is concluded, there is nothing to prevent you from flying under pt 91 since there are no flight time restrictions under pt 91. If you were to then fly another pt 135 leg, every leg would have to be considered since you are now flying under pt 135 rules which require all flight time to be considered. It would be different if an operator stipulated in their flight operations manual that all legs are to be flown pt 135, but that would be more restrictive then the actual regs.

If you fly the aircraft under pt 135, you have to comply with pt 135 rules. If you fly the aircraft under pt 91, you have to comply with pt 91 rules which do not address maximum flight time. And, before someone says this inconsistency is not safe, consider this particular flight. How would a 3rd pilot have made this flight safer? It's a 15 min flight from Nice to LFMQ. Should they have rotated the resting pilot every 5 min?
 
I see what youre saying but there is a grey area there that I'm sure will be investigated. Did the company pay off its own dime the relocation cost of moving the aircraft or was that still charged to the customer? When you consider regulations you are prob right but I'm sure the lawyers and insurance company will look at this leg as a charter 135 flight.
 
A 3rd pilot always makes any flight that much safer. That's not to say they should have had 3 pilots, but we don't know where their flight originated from. We just know about nice to the french airport. If they had a third pilot that got off in niece, that tells me that he was onboard because of a long duty or flight day
 
Someone needs to make this ignorant b@stard famous. VIP Jet Captain Brent Coleman is an accident investigator now? He seems to know exactly what happened. You see, he knows the ujet ownership, so what he says must be the way it is. He also knows their insurers. Hmmm. So he knows each entity that the underwriter uses to spread the risk? Sure Brent. You letter impressed all of us!!!!

In a separate statement, Captain Brent Coleman, the chief pilot with an executive jet charter service, who has logged over 30,000 hours of flight time, offered his views on this accident in an email message sent on Tuesday, July 17, 2012. His remarks follow:

"Hello. I am an International VIP jet Captain/Chief Pilot. Le Castellet is one of our frequent stops. Very nice facility and long runway. Knowing the Ujet staff and ownership, even their insurer, I must say this has to be placed first at the hands of the Captain. High performance jet procedures will allow for a go around should the approach become unstable."

"As a rule, repositioning flights are not any different than revenue legs. In this case, maybe the copilot was getting some hands on experience. If the Captain did not react soon enough to add power and lift off again after landing long, the rest is history, unfortunately. Not the airplane's fault. This is the last thing that can happen with all the procedures followed. Kind, sad regards."
 
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giv

This VIP Jet Captain is a pathetic individual with a lesser moral compass than most South Florida charter operators.
 
Really...he retired from American after 30 years...must have been a real bad guy...do you feel better now after making your comment about a man that has passed away?
 
targeted post

Of course I was speaking of Coleman.

God Bless the crew and their families; trajedy can happen to any of us at any time.
 
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Pilot error, it's obvious. I have no problem saying that. That's what it smells like and looks like. People at the airport said they came in what looked normal except they were going to touch down beyond the halfway point. Many eye witnesses.

That's it. No go around = crash.
 

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