Gulfstream Academy Webcam

[GogglesPisano]

Why do people pay for the 1900 seat? They P-F-T for many reasons, including but not limited to believing that flight instructing is beneath them, impatience, not wanting to and/or believing in earning experience, desire to end-run the traditional process, lack of respect for same, lack of willingness to put forth the effort to build time, lack of respect for professional aviation, its institutions and professional pilots. And, last but not least, lack of self-respect by paying the employer for a job. Bottom line: it is still only a job. You don't pay the grocery manager for a job sacking groceries at Safeway, do you? So, why should you pay some airline for an FO job?Finally, someone else who "gets it." Keep at it and you will get your chance - and be hired.

Why? 'Cause Daddy's got the money!

 

[Flying Illini]

Why don't people just flight instruct to build up enough time to go to a regional, and not just simply pay for a right seat position in a Beech 1900. I don't think anyone under at least 1,000 hours belongs on an aircraft carrying paxs., unless your Gods gift to aviation. I really enjoy flight instructing and get satisfaction from it when I put someone up for there chekride and they pass. Yeah its scary when a private student puts you in a cross controlled stall 300ft. above the deck, but it builds character(LOL). I would'nt trade for the world, I know my time will come when I get to sit in something that burns Jet A, but for now I'll wait my time out flight instructing.

I may be walking into the fire here but...
I don't agree with PFT. It ain't right! Now, I may be reading into your post too far. I have less than 1000 hrs. I fly passengers around. You have less than 1000 hrs, you have probably flown a non pilot, therefore a passenger, around. I had a friend that I went to school with that got hired at a regional with less than 500hrs (in 2003). He didn't PFT. I don't feel that I'm gods gift to aviation. I learn everyday. But I do feel, that total time is not the best stick to measure a pilot with. The guy that has 3000hrs of banner tow time is a better qualified pilot than some 400hr MEI? No, I don't think so. I know I may be arguing a losing battle, I know that pilots will never be judged by the quality and not the quantity of their time. It will never happen. I put in 1.5 yrs instructing, loved every minute of it, and I would have no problem doing it again. I had the opportunity to go fly banners and build total time, or go fly corporate (my career goal) and do what I want to do flying terrific equipment, I chose the latter. I am a low time pilot, yet my skills were still that to get a type rating and to not be fired (I wouldn't be where I am if I couldn't fly an airplane or if I couldn't make sound decisions). Obviously low time pilots can be just as competent as high time pilots. I do realize that at less than 1000 hrs, I'm not captain material...yet. I am still learning the hardest thing to learn. Decision making skills, and we're all learning those everyday. Then we get into the argument, is there an "hour threshold" through which you pass when you can be considered a "pilot" without people saying, "oh, you're low time."? I don't know. I've been flying at this corporate job for over a year now. I fly around 350hrs a year. At that rate it will take me nearly 2 more years before I get my ATP. I could have gone and flown banners for a year or two, come out with over 2000 hrs, but would I be a better pilot after two years of flying banners than I am right now after 1 year of flying jets and turbo-props and obtaining a type rating? I don't think so, but still, the 2000hr banner pilot looks at me as though I'm not worthy to fly the equipment I do. If I was at this job that I have now with 2000hrs, people wouldn't act surprised when they ask me what my TT is. But with my current situation, they look surprised. I hate trying to justify my right to be there because someone thinks that a 900hr pilot shouldn't be flying a jet. The people I am talking to are other pilots you run into at FBO's. The guys at our company are great. I went to school with a new Falcon 10 capt. He was just upgrading to capt in the 10. He has less than a quarter of the time I have in the airplane. He doesn't have an attitude about it, he knows I have more experience in the airplane and that I fly it better than he does (he told me this) and he has come to me on several occasions with operational questions. He doesn't see TT, he sees experience and he uses me as a resource. It's nice for a lowly FO to teach a captain something once in a while.

man, this turned into a rant, my apologies.

 

[350DRIVER]

It is not the "quantity" of the time that matters, it is the "quality" and "experience" behind that time that is the make or break factor.

I have flown with 5,000 hour pilots that made me scratch my head, I have also flown with some low time guys that were as sharp as they come. Hours do not matter, it has everything to do with the experience factor.

Illini,

Consider yourself fortunate to be sitting right seat of a Falcon10, not many at your total time can pull that one off. Fast and fun bird to fly. I had a retired 10 captain that was in my upgrade class and **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** did he have some stories...

3 5 0

 

[jppt2000]

Why do people pay for the 1900 seat? They P-F-T for many reasons, including but not limited to believing that flight instructing is beneath them, impatience, not wanting to and/or believing in earning experience, desire to end-run the traditional process, lack of respect for same, lack of willingness to put forth the effort to build time, lack of respect for professional aviation, its institutions and professional pilots. And, last but not least, lack of self-respect by paying the employer for a job. Bottom line: it is still only a job. You don't pay the grocery manager for a job sacking groceries at Safeway, do you? So, why should you pay some airline for an FO job?Finally, someone else who "gets it." Keep at it and you will get your chance - and be hired.

Not to demean grocery managers, but my gut feeling tells me more people want to fly for an airline than bag groceries. Booby, another post from you slanted against PFT. You gave up on trying to get a job. I just hope people recognize you didn't reach your goals for a myriad of reasons. Funny, every reason you provide for yourpersonal failure is external, not your fault at all.
Who cares what someone who could never make it thinks about PFT, due to reasons of course, beyond your control.

 

[bobbysamd]

Not to demean grocery managers, but my gut feeling tells me more people want to fly for an airline than bag groceries. Booby, another post from you slanted against PFT. You gave up on trying to get a job. I just hope people recognize you didn't reach your goals for a myriad of reasons. Funny, every reason you provide for yourpersonal failure is external, not your fault at all.
Who cares what someone who could never make it thinks about PFT, due to reasons of course, beyond your control.

Three comments.

1. Someone else started this anti-Gulfstream thread. For a change, why don't you attack his/her comments? I see . . . .

2. Instead of debating my positions with something substantive, i.e., facts and information, you attack me personally while entirely ignoring relevancy. In other words, if you cannot attack the position, attack the person. You have launched into personal attacks of me three times now, the first in March, last week and this week. Last week, I asked you to back up your attacks. You countered with more personal attacks and then turned tail and ran. You are a coward.

3. I am not answering any more of your posts. You are not worth the time. But I will continue commenting on P-F-T.

 

[jppt2000]

Three comments.

1. Someone else started this anti-Gulfstream thread. For a change, why don't you attack his/her comments? I see . . . .

2. Instead of debating my positions with something substantive, i.e., facts and information, you attack me personally. In other words, if you cannot attack the position, attack the person. You have launched into personal attacks of me three times now, the first in March, last week and this week. Last week, I asked you to back up your attacks. You countered by more personal attacks and then turned tail and ran. You are a coward.

3. Attack away, because I am not answering any more of your posts. You are not worth the time. But I will continue commenting on P-F-T.

Booby and associates,
Inspired from your Beatles posting last week.

3. Inspiring envy. [Obs. or Poetic]

He to him leapt, and that same envious gage Of
victor's glory from him snatched away. --Spenser.

Booby and friends, your threads are heavily laced with envy,
misery loves company.

 

[User546]

Whoa... Whoa... Whoa...

OK guys look! I started this thread, and it was merely to showcase the Gulfstream webcam and I added a simple remark to it.

I did NOT want this thread to turn into a war of words over whats right or wrong or whos qualified or not. Theres been enough threads on Gulfstream Academy so far that has made those feelings more then well known.

Lets get away from the insults and battering, and back to a little fun allright!

 

[User546]

And for the record, I was flying a Citation at 500 hours. Sometimes it's all about who you know. Now I'll be the first to admit I was a bit green when I first started flying it, but how could you not be with so little hours? I had a great Captain that I flew with, and over the past 200+ hours he's taught me more that he's experienced in his 14,000+ hours then I ever could've learned in my short time in the aviation world.

With a lot of hard work and familiarization, flying a jet isn't much different then any multi-engine I've ever flown. If anything, it's a lot less workload (as long as everything is going well!) and you just have to be a little bit further ahead of the game.

Lets not knock the "little" guys like myself that are carrying passengers with less then 1,000 hours.

 

[bobbysamd]

Of course not . . .

And for the record, I was flying a Citation at 500 hours. Sometimes it's all about who you know. Now I'll be the first to admit I was a bit green when I first started flying it, but how could you not be with so little hours . . . . With a lot of hard work and familiarization, flying a jet isn't much different then any multi-engine I've ever flown. If anything, it's a lot less workload (as long as everything is going well!) and you just have to be a little bit further ahead of the game.

Lets not knock the "little" guys like myself that are carrying passengers with less then 1,000 hours.

MAPDers do it. European airlines, e.g. Lufthansa, Alitalia, Air Inter, do it. Asian airlines, e.g., JAL, JAS, Asiana, do it. I don't think anyone is really saying Gulfstream is unsafe; I am not. The P-F-Ters still have to take a 121 checkride. The sole issue is how they got the "job," and I, for one, don't care for it. No job is worth buying.

 

[User546]

Ok... a little clarification. In NO WAY am I supporting Gulfstream and PFT!
PFT is WRONG... and I share the opinion with most everyone else that it demeans the profession, and all they're doing is wanting the easy way in to a job.

The remark I made about flying the Citation was in no way an endorsement of PFT. I did not BUY my job in the Citation. I went the route that everyone else went, and just got a lucky break earlier then most.

All I was referencing was about an earlier poster who said that its unsafe to fly passengers under a 1000 total hours.

 

[pilotmyf]

joeg252
"Why don't people just flight instruct to build up enough time to go to a regional, and not just simply pay for a right seat position in a Beech 1900. I don't think anyone under at least 1,000 hours belongs on an aircraft carrying paxs., unless your Gods gift to aviation. I really enjoy flight instructing and get satisfaction from it when I put someone up for there chekride and they pass. Yeah its scary when a private student puts you in a cross controlled stall 300ft. above the deck, but it builds character(LOL). I would'nt trade for the world, I know my time will come when I get to sit in something that burns Jet A, but for now I'll wait my time out flight instructing"






Haven't been instructing that long, EH?---Why shouldn't anyone under 1000 hours be in the right seat 0f a 1900?,and Why are you letting students get you into cross controlled stalls at 300 ft--keep it up and you won't be instructing too much longer.

 

[IP076]

I Love it.....1000 hours min to fly passengers....do you tell you students not to take their parents or friends flying?

As Bobby said it, many airlines are doing it, and doing it safely. Do I think 1000 hours of CFI time will make you a better pilot, yeah, I think it does, but that doesn't mean you can't be taught to safely operate a high performance jet aircraft at 200 hours.

Do you realize how often we rely on professional pilots with less than 1000 hours? How many hours does a F/A 18 driver have when they reach a squadron on a carrier? How many hours does that Herk Co-Pilot have when they're doing parachute drops over hostile territory?

 

[Cosmo1999]

why do they have tableclothes on the tables?

Also could be to prevent people from seeing the massive excitement going on in their pants that they probably get from putting on the uniform and hat from the leftover $5 from that big check they wrote

 

[rumpletumbler]

There is almost $300,000 on cam right now.

 

[de727ups]

"Do you realize how often we rely on professional pilots with less than 1000 hours? How many hours does a F/A 18 driver have when they reach a squadron on a carrier? How many hours does that Herk Co-Pilot have when they're doing parachute drops over hostile territory?"

So are you trying to compare military training to TAB express training?

Military takes the the best canidates and many wash out. TAB express takes anyone who can write the check.

I don't care if it's MAPD or TAB express. Getting a 300 hour pilot through airline training is one thing. Having that person be an equal asset to a new F/O that has more experience is another. It's easy to sit back and say..."they both passed a FAA checkride, they are legal, the are safe". Yeah...they are legal. But do they have the background to be in that seat? Not in my opinion...not at 300 hours. I've never gone through MAPD nor flown with anyone who has. My opinion is only based on having gone through 121 F/O training for two different jets....300 hour pilots shouldn't be there.