Gulfstream Academy Closed???

[climbhappy]

the PFT question

all good opinions but here's where i think this PFT thing is gonna bite hard.

when these guys start upgrading, never having flown freight ,corporat as captains or ran errands for their flight school cross country, I'll think you'll see incidents on the rise...

a chatau check airman told me where it not for 9/11, and the influx of quality guys, he was afraid of an accident happening/


I've heard the same thing from guys at comair.ASA.

You can't fool mother nature!


i'd like to see a study put forward gleened from the trainng records of all these folks.

 

[C601]

climbhappy,

WTF you talking about, the ONLY difference is between a PFT'er and yourself, if they where flying a B1900 is that they would be paying fly as an co-pilot, Vs you going the normal route.

They still have to pass the same exams, same check rides the same as yourself to be able to sit in the left or right seat. What you think just because the paid there way through there unsafer pilots. Thats the most stupid thing I have ever heard anyone say on here.

And not that i'm pro-pft, but have you heard of any accident from GA or Comair, involving a PFT'er at the controls where ppl where killed. No.

incidents on the rise ??? Last I heard air incidents where falling, and that was last week.

And like I said i'm not pro-pft, but dont assume something, when you have no facts to back it up that pft'er are unsafer pilots.

 

[T-Gates]

C601-

You hit the nail on the head. Some people can't find any other way to slam PFT except by saying that those who PFT are unsafe pilots.

There is NO evidence to support this fact. It is just an easy slam for people to make.

It is everyone's right to hate PFT, but do it for real reasons. Not just reasons that sound good.

--03M

 

[bobbysamd]

P-F-T safety

C601 makes a fair point. P-F-T is not necessarily a safety issue - unless crew scheduling pairs a green captain with a low-time P-F-T'er.

No matter where you train or how you train, a 300 hour pilot is a 300-hour pilot. That's more than being green, but experience is a great teacher and it comes quickly after one gets the chance. Take Mesa. Those folks are 300-hour pilots, well-indoctrinated into Mesa line procedures, but are still 300-hour pilots. But after the first year, assuming they fly out their annual 1000 hours, they are now 1300-hour pilots, with most of that being 121 time.

For purposes of this discussion, I assume that Mesa FOs spilt the flying with their Captains, no matter whether the FO is a street hire or an MAPD grad. I make this assumption with confidence because I knew an MAPD grad who got hired and told us how on the very first trip he flew he split the flying and even got to make the first takeoff on his very first leg!

The gripe that I, for one, have with P-F-T programs boils down to fair treatment for all. Everyone should be considered fairly and equally. Ability to pay should not be the deciding factor, but, face it, folks, that's the bottom line, and what makes P-F-T so noxious. I reiterate my point above about P-F-T in the early nineties. Pilots who had earned their stripes could not be hired unless they paid for their training.

 

[Ace757]

Ok....i may be butting in where i don't belong. Im still relatvely new to this board, and I dont know how everyone feels, but I went to FSI, and dropped about 60k in ratings. Im not ritch by any means....I had school loans out the A$$ to be there. But i did it to get the best training possible, because I wanted to be the best pilot possible. Infact we have all paid for training. We all paid for our ratings weather it be at an academy or an FBO. It really comes down to how far in debt you want to be. If I wanted to get my CFI ratings here I would have to drop an additioal 15K...gratned if i get hired here I get paid back for the II and MEI. But if this is about money we are all guilty of PFT.

 

[KingAirer]

Thanks so much for your 2Cents.

But i did it to get the best training possible, because I wanted to be the best pilot possible.

Wow, those ads showing the father and sons really do work!

editors note: Post coated with extra sarcasm.

 

[T-Gates]

But i did it to get the best training possible, because I wanted to be the best pilot possible.

Sounds like someone had too much marketing "kool-aid"....


--03M

 

[Timebuilder]

Infact we have all paid for training. We all paid for our ratings weather it be at an academy or an FBO.

Since you are new, I have a recommendation and a comment.

1) Search the site under PFT. There are many threads where all of the aspects are explained.

2) Comment: yes, we have all "paid for (our) training", but this is not PFT. PFT is when you are paying someone to give you something besides the training necessary to be a pilot, and that "something" being a job. It's when you are paying money to a specific employer for the specific purpose of being permitted to fly for his company. In so doing, you displace an otherwise qualified pilot from the position which you are paying to occupy, and reducing the number of paid positions available by being willing to participate in this plan. At the very least, it is a form of bribery.

Maybe PFT is a little misleading as a term. Maybe it should be PFW, or Paid For Working.

 

[bobbysamd]

Pay for training v. pay for training

Infact we have all paid for training. We all paid for our ratings weather it be at an academy or an FBO.

Let's differentiate between earning your ratings and paying for training. It might sound the same, but it is not.

First off, absent someone who is willing to let you use his/her airplane and provide instruction gratis, in order to acquire their basic credentials, i.e. Commercial-Instrument, CFI, etc., everyone must rent an airplane in some form or another and pay an instructor to teach him/her. I'm not counting military in this equation because that is a different situation. The same is true if you become a doctor, lawyer, engineer, municipal planner, or whatever. You attend some sort of school or training program, for which you pay tuition, purchase books and materials, pay lab fees, etc., and you earn credentials, e.g. college degrees, that are accepted universally. That is earning your ratings, or degree, as the case may be.

With pay-for-training, you must remit money to the company for the training that it will provide to you as a condition of employment. This training is specific to the company and does not result in a universally-accepted credential. If you choose not to pay the company for your training, you will not be given employment. Hence, the difference between paying to earn your ratings and paying a company to train you as a condition of employment.

I agree with Timebuilder's comment about bribery. That's what it really boils down to.

Hope that helps with your understanding of P-F-T.

 

[1.3XVso]

Blah Blah Blah same c*** over and over. Give it up dude. Since you guys complain soo much about gulfstream its not like you'll want to work for them so whats the point.