Gulfstream Academy Closed???

[bobbysamd]

Gulfstream

Bobby, over the past 2 years you have made it quite apparant that you hate PFT, dislike those who PFT, and those who offer PFT. And that you are in your current position because you were adimantley against PFT in the early-90's. That is all well and good, but I'm getting sick of the rhetoric . . . . You have done your part Bobby, hang up the hat and lay off PFT for awhile. We all know how you feel.

If you read the post third from the top you'll see that someone else and not me gave the Gulfstream FO program a dig. Then there was a comment or two following that one that gave the program further digs.

Just the same, I appreciate your response to my comments, as I would hope you would appreciate mine. To thine ownself be true.

Thanks, 350.

 

[Timebuilder]

Working toward a pilot job is like a competition.

Now, imagine you are watching a footrace at the olympics. Everyone starts the race at the sound of the gun. One runner cuts across the grass, hands a wad of money to an official, and rejoins the race on the other side of the track, finishing far in front of the pack.

Now, the runner might think this is ethical, after all, this is the way it goes, and we should just "live with it".

He might say, "hey, it's capitalism", or "I'm just as qualified a runner as the rest of these guys."

Would this runner be right? Or is this so obiviously and fundamentally wrong as to be ridiculous?

Friends, if this is really just every man for himself, and the end justifies any means, then we can dissolve the unions and accept the wages that we receive, according to what we have demonstrated that we deserve.

 

[bobbysamd]

Rosie Ruiz

Working toward a pilot job is like a competition.

Now, imagine you are watching a footrace at the olympics. Everyone starts the race at the sound of the gun. One runner cuts across the grass, hands a wad of money to an official, and rejoins the race on the other side of the track, finishing far in front of the pack.

Now, the runner might think this is ethical, after all, this is the way it goes, and we should just "live with it".

He might say, "hey, it's capitalism", or "I'm just as qualified a runner as the rest of these guys."

Would this runner be right? Or is this so obiviously and fundamentally wrong as to be ridiculous?

Friends, if this is really just every man for himself, and the end justifies any means, then we can dissolve the unions and accept the wages that we receive, according to what we have demonstrated that we deserve.

Good adaptation of the Rosie Ruiz Boston Marathon tale of years ago. You see what cutting in front of others did for her.

 

[350DRIVER]

Life is full of "shortcuts" and "easy way outs" however some do come with very harsh consequences and ramifications. There are plenty of anti-pft senior pilots that are on interview boards all across the line who had to get to where they are present day the hard way.. One day you and not I (fortunately) will have to answer for this "short cut" during some interview down the line and I am sure glad that it won't be me. Being a former Delta employee I was pretty fortunate enough to be able to network and meet quite a few of the "older salts" that had no choice but to come up the hard way and these pilots had (and still do) quite the influence on "who" got the interview and hired and I would rather buy ocean front property in Oklahoma before having to sit across the table in Atlanta and have to "explain" my past "choices" and how I got to where I am at right now... Good luck my friend is all I can say... I am sure you will counter the argument by saying that many of the Gulfstreamers who went through this program are now (present day) flying for UAL, DAL, SWA, Airways, etc, etc, I am sure "some" are ( I will not argue that with you) but look at the "hard" and fine numbers and you will see that they are very much in the minority.... Every time this topic comes up you cannot post the "numbers", instead you will counter the argument by just posting "opinions". There is also a reason why Pinnacle is the only regional to have the agreement with Gulfstream. (enough said)- Take a close look at this agreement... $20,000+ to make $8.00 per flight hour.... hmmmm..

I just happen to know one or two that took the "short cut" and wish they could step back in history and re-write it and change what they have done... I cannot see how or why you continue to argue in favor of this program since you are very nieve to look at the facts and realize just what is happening. 12,000 + furloughed guys on the streets and the practice of "renting" the right seat still goes on.... This picture is quite distorted and is a very ugly one whether you want to acknowledge it or not. Sometimes things are never forgotten and I hope for the day that I am on some interview board somewhere and I get an applicant that went through this program.. Please don't take this as a personal attack, I have nothing against you at all nor do I have a problem with "you",what I do have a problem with is "how" this program is set up and how it undercuts the industry as a whole. There is absolutely nothing "positive" that comes out of this at all other than someone with money can take a short cut and "rent" a seat out and take that opportunity away from some furloughed pilot who can't seem to find a job.

You can continue to distort the facts as much as you would like, it really does not bother me at all.... I am just extremely happy I did things the "right way" - You can personally attack me to he!! and back, which believe me it has no effect on me.

I am confident that most see the "big picture" and realize what these PFTers are doing to this industry. Even with blinders on it isn't overly hard to see.

3 5 0

 

[blade230]

You know 350, I can respect the way you climbed your way up, and I have many flight instructor friends from Riddle who went that route. But I also have NO shame in the way I made it to where I am, (PFT) You, or anybody else on this board will NOT make me think otherwise. The industry was sh#t, and there was no other way at the time I made the decision. I paid for the Stream with MY own money buddy, not my parents. So at least get that right.

I am sick and tired of people saying the majority of pilots hate PFTers. Do you know the majority of pilots in the world? I don't think so, and neither do I. But I am related to 4 current airline pilot who ARE on the interview boards of their respective airlines. Last I checked, they were all MAJOR Airlines. All of them, and THEIR/MY friends are aware of the route I chose, and have nothing negative to say. In many cases, advised me of the Gulfstream/Eagle Jet route considering the circumstances. I will admit there are SOME that look down on the PFT route. It IS possible that one day, I may not get a job because of it. But judging by your attitude, if you come before any interview pilots at MAJORS I know, which in honesty is over 11 pilots at 4 different majors (even though many of them Flight Instructed), you my friend will NOT get the job either.

One last thing, this is a common misconception about the "Stream". FO's fly the plane, not just pull the gear and talk on the radio. I personally "hand flew" alot more than 50% of the legs of my time at GStream. Maybe I was lucky, but that is how it was.

Fly Safe everyone,

Even Mr.350

Cheers

 

[Timebuilder]

But I also have NO shame in the way I made it to where I am, (PFT)

A lack of shame while doing things that normally would cause shame is a symptom of our declining culture. Shame is one of the hardwired emotions that helps us to keep our behavior in check. As we convince people that things like shame and stigma are harsh and judgmental, we lose the foundation of a cohesive, orderly society.

You, or anybody else on this board will NOT make me think otherwise.

My aim isn't so much to make you feel otherwise, but to guide others away from PFT.

Do you know the majority of pilots in the world? I don't think so, and neither do I.

Here's a clue: when I first thought of being a pilot, the most common commercial aircraft was the DC3. Would you say that I have a large enough base from which to form my opinon? I sure do.

But I am related to 4 current airline pilot who ARE on the interview boards of their respective airlines. Last I checked, they were all MAJOR Airlines. All of them, and THEIR/MY friends are aware of the route I chose, and have nothing negative to say. In many cases, advised me of the Gulfstream/Eagle Jet route considering the circumstances.

For every airline guy that I have met that thinks PFT is okay, I have met three others who think it should be avoided like the plague. Now, consider this: if they are your relatives, and found out you went the PFT route, what are the likely to say? IF they are your friends, they might be impressed that you were flying a turboprop for an air carrier. No critical oberservations there, either. Better ask some people you don't know, someone like me. My opinion? Like an affirmative action hire, you will never know if you would be were you are, were it not for the manner in which you bypassed the more accepted route to your position. Would you have been able to stick it out, been good enough, and won the race on your own merits? You'll never know. That feeling would eat at a person of conscience, gnawing the gut from the inside out. A person with no shame will perhaps be able to live with it, and rationalize the behavior.

One last thing, this is a common misconception about the "Stream". FO's fly the plane,...

Did you know that you can drive an Indy car, fly a vintage warbird, and even be an astronaut on a rocket to the international space station?

All it takes is a check. Just like a job at a PFT airline!

 

[Dean]

I just happen to know one or two that took the "short cut" and wish they could step back in history and re-write it and change what they have done...

350....would you care to reveal some of your sources in order to prove this quote is not falacious. I am one that does believe in data. Show me the data and show me the way. If you cant backup what you say, then consider your post Irrelevant. If your so passionate about this, then it should not be a problem. I will be glad to give you an email address to respond to as well.

And also, your assuming the experience of one to be the same as the whole. Any person who believes this is truly a dumb ???.

If had to guess, this is mostly your oppinion and nothing else.

As of now, I dont look at PFT as cutting in line. I look at it as investment in myself. I look at a flying carreer as a business. This is just a step you take to invest in yourself to help your business out. What improves your market value makes you better off. I dont look at this as cutting in line. In a free trade society, there is no cutting in line. It is every man for himself. If you have the means to invest in your business, then go ahead. I for one will not be back here trying to stab you in the back and crying like an 8th grader.

 

[wil]

Get it straight- Gulfstream and others that sell the right seat are not PFT!! They are buy a job!! The pilots that PFT'd in the past normally went through a program like Flight Safety which did not have a direct connection to the airline. It was a way for the Regionals to defray training costs.
blade230- you should be ashamed of your path- I for one would not hire you based on your Gulfstream past- I don't care if you fly like Gordon Cooper!
350DRIVER- glad to see we agree on something!!

 

[Timebuilder]

It is every man for himself.

If this is your actual belief, and not adolescent posturing, then you sir can never join a union. Your position, if a factual representation of your core values, will make it impossible for you to join in collective bargaining in good faith.


Opinions, as you charge they are, have value. They are formed by experienced people over time. They are the substance and foundation of our society. If you just go by the numbers on paper, and see no value in people other than yourself, then you have started down the road to a very bad place, a place where evil fourishes. It is the beginning of anarchy.

 

[T-Gates]

You can continue to distort the facts as much as you would like, it really does not bother me at all.... I am just extremely happy I did things the "right way" - You can personally attack me to he!! and back, which believe me it has no effect on me.

I am confident that most see the "big picture" and realize what these PFTers are doing to this industry. Even with blinders on it isn't overly hard to see.

State one example where I "distorted the facts".

I am glad that you are happy with yourself. I'm happy with myself too. I sleep well at night. I don't sit here living in fear that someone might spite me down the road because I PFT'ed at one point in my career. If someone feels the need to exercise thier opinions on a hiring board the so-be-it. I don't really care.

The only thing that steams me about theese discussions is when people attack the flying skills of those who PFT'ed, just because they PFT'ed.

Go ahead, and continue your "we hate PFT" back patting session.

I'm out.

--03M