GulfGuy

[doh]

GulfGuy from the porn lounge, please pm me. I have something private I would like to tell you about my personal experience with FW.

 

[Imissmypilot]

GulfGuy from the porn lounge, please pm me. I have something private I would like to tell you about my personal experience with FW.

Why? Do you think he cares? He chooses to insult, in an effort to sound 'reasonable' and 'intellectual', a significant portion of the pilot group (bigger than the porn lounge, vuh or even yammer) who choos to read this site to find out what's really going on. Whatever information you choose to give him probably won't pull his head out of his ass. Do you really think knowing FW knows his identity he will do anything about it?

Regarding flight info, even though comments are relatively few in comparison to the curiosity, views blow those other sites away.

That fact speaks to a pilot group that is still gunshy about showing their unmasked support to either side. A guy with a real finger on the pulse of the pilot group should realize this but instead he insults them.

While I personally do not condone the suggestion of a black ball list etc. It is significant that a portion of the group does and feels strongly enough they choose to post about it. Both FW and "gulfguy" ought to take off the pretentious hat and realize the fact these decert guys are that hated says something.

The union is like Trump. Very few people are willing to throw their public support to him, even in answering an anonymous poll, but the facts about how people feel about the work being done speaks for itself. More pilots support representation than don't. The porn lounge is nothing more than Fake News.

Remember: sending in a card for decert is essentially a vote to lose all representation. Gulf guy is just helping Frank fool people we will get an in-house union from it. We won't.

 

[airman2105]

The FW's of this world are not going to help you when KR says you are fired, they will tell you you were wrong. That is why we have the IBT1108 to bat for us. They have very experienced people who know how to deal with the Onesky management who going way back are skilled at misleading the pilot group with false promises and favouritism. As pilots I think we have enough to think about just doing the job of flying because that is what we do best and leave the complicated practices of the legal system to the IBT1108 because that is what they do best. Unless KR's foot is held in the fire he will not agree to anything.
Do you think the in-house pilot group will push the limits when KR is taking advantage once the Union protection is gone? I don't think so, they will agree with anything and everything so they don't lose they "position".

 

[doh]

Why? Do you think he cares? He chooses to insult, in an effort to sound 'reasonable' and 'intellectual', a significant portion of the pilot group (bigger than the porn lounge, vuh or even yammer) who choos to read this site to find out what's really going on. Whatever information you choose to give him probably won't pull his head out of his ass. Do you really think knowing FW knows his identity he will do anything about it?

Regarding flight info, even though comments are relatively few in comparison to the curiosity, views blow those other sites away.

That fact speaks to a pilot group that is still gunshy about showing their unmasked support to either side. A guy with a real finger on the pulse of the pilot group should realize this but instead he insults them.

While I personally do not condone the suggestion of a black ball list etc. It is significant that a portion of the group does and feels strongly enough they choose to post about it. Both FW and "gulfguy" ought to take off the pretentious hat and realize the fact these decert guys are that hated says something.

The union is like Trump. Very few people are willing to throw their public support to him, even in answering an anonymous poll, but the facts about how people feel about the work being done speaks for itself. More pilots support representation than don't. The porn lounge is nothing more than Fake News.

Remember: sending in a card for decert is essentially a vote to lose all representation. Gulf guy is just helping Frank fool people we will get an in-house union from it. We won't.

From what I'm reading, GGuy is in support of a union. You reading that differently?

- - - Updated - - -

The FW's of this world are not going to help you when KR says you are fired, they will tell you you were wrong. That is why we have the IBT1108 to bat for us. They have very experienced people who know how to deal with the Onesky management who going way back are skilled at misleading the pilot group with false promises and favouritism. As pilots I think we have enough to think about just doing the job of flying because that is what we do best and leave the complicated practices of the legal system to the IBT1108 because that is what they do best. Unless KR's foot is held in the fire he will not agree to anything.
Do you think the in-house pilot group will push the limits when KR is taking advantage once the Union protection is gone? I don't think so, they will agree with anything and everything so they don't lose they "position".

I totally agree with you, except I think everyone should volunteer to do something so that none of us have to do everything. Get involved!

 

[Club ORD FO]

GG sounds like a (reluctant) supporter, but he seems to be under the impression that FW (and others) are trying to form an in house union. Which is incorrect. If FW wins representation he will just step down and hand everything over to management. No contract, no union, no collective bargaining, no job protection, nothing... so While GG has been posting some food counter points, he’s wrong on one very major point. This is a drive to get rid of the 1108 and become completely non-union. Not for an in house. Many people are under the impression they are voting for FW’s union. And what upsets me is that FW and others do not correct that misconception. They seem to be ok getting cards from pilots who don’t truly understand what they are voting for.

This is something the 1108 needs to make clear to everyone since FW does not.

 

[airman2105]

From what I'm reading, GGuy is in support of a union. You reading that differently?

- - - Updated - - -



I totally agree with you, except I think everyone should volunteer to do something so that none of us have to do everything. Get involved!

Volunteer to do something....what does that mean? No direction...you need IBT1108 who can give you direction. You will get no takers as they all want to be under the radar...nameless. How can you have an un named team to back you up. The guys who were named and pushed for the union because they thought you were worth it. Don't let them down.
If this protection is lost it will be gone for good. Remember that every airline has a union because it works and is good for the protection of both sides.

 

[doh]

Volunteer to do something....what does that mean? No direction...you need IBT1108 who can give you direction. You will get no takers as they all want to be under the radar...nameless. How can you have an un named team to back you up. The guys who were named and pushed for the union because they thought you were worth it. Don't let them down.
If this protection is lost it will be gone for good. Remember that every airline has a union because it works and is good for the protection of both sides.

What I mean is everyone should volunteer to do something for the union. I thought that was clear.

 

[airman2105]

Okay, copy that.

 

[Imissmypilot]

From what I'm reading, GGuy is in support of a union. You reading that differently?

I think he sounds like he's in support but when you disenfranchise a significant portion of the audience by referring to them as keyboard warriors who should be ignored it's an indication you don't understand any of the real issues.

He is trying way too hard to blow sunshine up Frank's ass while he "learns" him some facts. Frank is a lying manipulator and simply because GulfGuy knows Frank knows his identity (when know one else does) he is in a position of weakness and won't call him on it. That does not one any good.

Flexjet Pilots have always been way too concerned about appearing reasonable, impartial, balanced, polite etc... In reality that's just a nice way of saying Flexjet pilots are a bunch of pussies with no passion or guts. I think one of the greater moments in the union history is when some of you decided to call people out by name on that bull****. But the pussies hated it. What does that tell you?

I don't know this Dubinsky guy Kenn and the other decert people hate so much but something tells me the entire reason they don't like him is because he calls Kenn out on his bull**** and that's effective. The reason they're now clamoring about him all over again at the porn lounge is they're trying to scare you away from the tactics that won leadership the vote. They used to tell it like it is. Then they got pussified and decided to stop the direct attack. Look at the results - we are now dealing with low morale and still silent support.

GulfGuy is controlled opposition intended to keep us guys worried about tone. **** tone. FW is trying to screw us and who cares if that pisses people off enough to lash out.

So no. I don't think he is doing the pro-union group any favors by thinking he is better than the rest of us.

 

[doh]

Fair enough. But I’m happy that at least he isn’t just walking in jackbooted lockstep with wookieboy.

 

[Imissmypilot]

Fair enough. But I’m happy that at least he isn’t just walking in jackbooted lockstep with wookieboy.

Yes but just he careful. Controlled opposition can be just as damaging as what Frank is doing.

Sometime controlled opposition is just a target being successfully manipulated and other times its much more lockstep if you catch my drift.

I do think GGuy is more of the former kind but I hear we've had our share of latter. All you have to do is look at who was rewarded with what. I heard PW was a POC mole who told management every union plan and step. He got a Gulfstream. Hey maybe it's him. Who knows. If so, I don't think he can be trusted.

Or maybe it's the jackass who abused his relationships and spilled secrets to RH to get his easier schoolhouse gig. Supposedly a big union supporter but wouldn't even be vocal before the vote despite his best friend getting fired and his other best friend getting serially harassed and almost fired. I wouldn't trust him either.

Or maybe it's FW himself just trying to tee up nice retorts and opportunities.

Who knows.

I hope I'm wrong. I kinda think I am. I know I'm being too hard on him and he's perfectly fine but that keyboard warrior comment pissed me off.

 

[TexasChallenger]

If you go back and read Gulfguys posts, he did at one point mention that he was suspicious of their intentions. Here’s part of what he posted. “The more I involve myself with this and the more I see people defend this monstrosity of a management team, the more I realize the need of a union here. Whether it’s Teamsters, ALPA, or that silly uniform union that Handschuch suggested as a joke one time, we’ve gotta have something. Here’s what I think you guys are up to. If you’re successful in the decertification and you get your in house, you’ll eventually dissolve it and poof! No union at all. Am I right?”.

FW never responded to his question.

 

[airman2105]

PW and RP were pushed out of the POC. Mole suspects.

 

[TexasChallenger]

Gulfguy is still at it. Now he’s putting PD on the spot. Someone find out who this guy is and buy him a beer!

 

[Imissmypilot]

Gulfguy is still at it. Now he’s putting PD on the spot. Someone find out who this guy is and buy him a beer!

I have to say... at first I was suspicious since he seemed to be a little too deferential to Ole Frank. But perhaps he was just gaining his bearings. He is teeing them up and hitting home runs lately. I

I hope the majority can see the responses by Frank and Phil lack total transparency and even sense. I am seriously worried about how stupid Phil is. That's not even an insult. I am worried about what happens if he gets handed keys to our future.

For instance in his latest post he regurgitates some of Judge Qwins ruling and tries to make it something it is not. What that little nugget he regards as "breaking news" is the Judge simply stating it is not the company's place or cause to sue over SLI. It is the pilots. If a pilot (or group of pilots) feels he was not fairly and equally represented he can sue the union but the company cannot pursue his cause.

Which begs the question. If Frank and Phil et al truly felt the IBT has done (or failed to do) everything they claim why not sue the union? Seems to me that's a lot more advantageous than their current route. After all, they said they're willing to pony up money for inhouse representation. Why don't these decert guys put their money where their mouths are and lead now? Newsflash: if they won't do it "now" (especially in light of them knowing they have the right) what makes you think they'll do it "then" when the company screws us.

There's no right answer for them. Either they'll have to admit the union actually did do its job (and our issues and problems are actually company rooted) or they have already proven they lack the ability and mindset to lead.

I refuse to join the site but if I were on there, that's what I'd be asking. It certainly brings cowardly back into the mix GulfGuy (you were wrong to rescind it).

Seems awfully, awfully suspicious to me that they are trying tactics right out of the union busting handbook (misconstrued statements and history presented as facts)... it's almost as if Phil is getting advice but is just a little too dumb to follow it correctly. And Frank allowing Phil to serve as a mouthpiece for their efforts proves his inability to lead. When you have someone who does more harm than good to your cause you shut them down. You don't instead offer them status and platform. Leadership 101. Is there really a pilot put there who thinks this band of henchmen straight from farquaads boardroom has the goods to lead this group?

 

[Imissmypilot]

So I've been contacted by 2 different people regarding their inability to post respectful yet tough questions for the decert crew on the porn lounge over the past month, some of which have come about as a result of my posts here.

Why is Frank so afraid of honest discussion? He only appears interested in allowing posts he thinks he can respond back to and win.

Talk about dishonesty.

 

[TexasChallenger]

I have gotten notifications to threads that I’m subscribed to only to go read them and there would be nothing there. I guess your post explains that.

 

[TexasChallenger]

So now FW and MR want to collect your employment info to be allowed to post on their porn site. At first i didn’t think much of it until Gulfguy pointed out their true intentions. Not only are some posts being censored but now they want to shut down debate all together because they know that if your identity is known to someone, you’ll be less likely to trash management. This reeks of how they shut down Yammer when KW and AF we’re taking it to Handschuch and Weiss and it was about to be open to the Flight Options pilots, too. Want an open honest debate? Don’t go to FW’s site much longer.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Sounds like they are making a "list", but they cry about being placed on a "scab list". What hippocracy. If the Union goes away, the company will RIF 50 guys. If you were one of those 50, what would you think about these misguided sheep? How quickly they forgot about the 70 pilots that got RIF'd under Sheringa( but 2N was still on the board so he is not completely innocent). If you give management the ability to target the pilots they label as a "cancer", what makes you think they won't get rid of the IGM's because he thinks they are overpaid, or just wants to save money?

 

[1folinepilot]

The o screwlounge site is useless as FW just eliminates most of the posts. I even took PD up on his offer to talk and again another waste of about 20 minutes of him dodging my questions and not directly answering anything.

 

[flexible]

I have gotten notifications to threads that I’m subscribed to only to go read them and there would be nothing there. I guess your post explains that.

Frank has refused to post several of my messages. He claims only 1 post has ever been denied but I can tell you for a fact that is untrue.

The interesting part is I am inclined toward an in house union. My intended posts reflects it. I was anti union until I caught Handshuch in a huge lie that effected me personally. He was spreading his usual gossip and attributed a false statement to me resulted in the loss of a long term friendship because the other person could not believe he would lie.

I was paired with someone who was pro union not too long ago. He brought up a great point I wanted to ask Frank about. It was how could I trust Frank to stand up for me when there is video evidence Frank cannot stand up for pilots. During the original video Frank sat there and did nothing when Mr. Ricci said some pretty crazy and disrespectful things about our pilots, our owners and others.

As distasteful as it might seem the reality is we do not want a union that has a friendly relationship with management. Respectful yes but never friendly.

I would like to know if Frank really has it in him to be willing to get on management's bad side. Because if he isn't a least willing to foresee the possibility then he would not be a good choice.

 

[dime line]

Frank has refused to post several of my messages. He claims only 1 post has ever been denied but I can tell you for a fact that is untrue.

The interesting part is I am inclined toward an in house union. My intended posts reflects it. I was anti union until I caught Handshuch in a huge lie that effected me personally. He was spreading his usual gossip and attributed a false statement to me resulted in the loss of a long term friendship because the other person could not believe he would lie.

I was paired with someone who was pro union not too long ago. He brought up a great point I wanted to ask Frank about. It was how could I trust Frank to stand up for me when there is video evidence Frank cannot stand up for pilots. During the original video Frank sat there and did nothing when Mr. Ricci said some pretty crazy and disrespectful things about our pilots, our owners and others.

As distasteful as it might seem the reality is we do not want a union that has a friendly relationship with management. Respectful yes but never friendly.

I would like to know if Frank really has it in him to be willing to get on management's bad side. Because if he isn't a least willing to foresee the possibility then he would not be a good choice.

Frank and Phil and that group dont want to run a union, a vote for them is a vote to cancel the union all together. As far as an in house union, just a little simple math will show we dont have the numbers

 

[flexible]

Frank and Phil and that group dont want to run a union, a vote for them is a vote to cancel the union all together. As far as an in house union, just a little simple math will show we dont have the numbers

I am inclined to do as little as possible is my point. I don't like the constant tension but I do realize it is managedment created tension. It's obvious Mr. Ricci will never deal fairly with the Teamsters so maybe a change is good if any other union would result in less tension.

Frank had made it obvious his idea is not possible for the simple fact we definitely need a union and it would appear he is not willing to do the uncomfortable things a union must do. No union is absolutely not a possibility.

I think it's a good question to ask. Has Frank or Phil shown they are willing to do the uncomfortable for us? Not at all. I think sometime the Teamsters have gone too far but at least they've gone somewhere. Too much fire is better than none at all in this case.

 

[Club ORD FO]

I am inclined to do as little as possible is my point. I don't like the constant tension but I do realize it is managedment created tension. It's obvious Mr. Ricci will never deal fairly with the Teamsters so maybe a change is good if any other union would result in less tension.

Frank had made it obvious his idea is not possible for the simple fact we definitely need a union and it would appear he is not willing to do the uncomfortable things a union must do. No union is absolutely not a possibility.

I think it's a good question to ask. Has Frank or Phil shown they are willing to do the uncomfortable for us? Not at all. I think sometime the Teamsters have gone too far but at least they've gone somewhere. Too much fire is better than none at all in this case.

From your above post, please elaborate on “his idea”.

 

[flexible]

From your above post, please elaborate on “his idea”.

"His idea" from what I gather from speaking with him and reading is to 1. Get rid of current union 2. Try life without a union or a contract by forming a pilots council or somesuch group to act as a liason between pilots and Mr. Ricci personally for matters that require attention. 3. If that does not work then forming a formal union will commenced including dues collection. Am I wrong? I thought his plan was pretty straightforward. I just don't agree with it. If future expectation is based on past performance then he rolled over like a trained bunny during the video and he is not the right guy. The same thing happened to out the door Rick. Mr. Ricci is a very slick hombray. Fortunately or unfortunately if pilots will ever have any say in the direction of this company then the relationship will always be a little tense. It's just who Mr. Ricci is. The political question is whether or not you think pilots should have a say in the direction of their careers. I know many who do not. Frank still has not posted my questions. One more proof he is not the right person.

 

[dime line]

1. Get rid of current union.......Been there, done that!
2. Try life without a union or a contract by forming a pilots council or somesuch group to act as a liason between pilots and Mr. Ricci. Wow....yup we had this too, the pilots on the "Council' had a 'Special" deal.....they worked a 6/5, while everybody else worked a 6/4 schedule
3. If that does not work then forming a formal union will commenced including dues collection. You me and most everybody will be long retired before we come full circle back to this, if the union were voted out tmro, it would take at least 5 years for everybody to feel the screwing, at least 2 years of card drive and get past the firings the company will do to the organizers and from FLOPS history about 4 years for a contract.

WHERE DO I SIGN UP FOR THIS FUN!! this guy sounds like a real genius

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Slick move by Tricci Ricci. Encourage the pilots that got a special deal to form an inhouse union. He has to sell that fantasy on the origional Flex pilots because the old Options pilots have seen his act before. The teamsters got voted down the first time and Tricci had a chance to prove himself. He showed us how he operates without a union, and that's why we have a Union now.