Grinstein says Delta will be ok!

[General Lee]

WTF has ALPA done for any of you? ALPA is a business with one purpose, to make money, YOUR MONEY. You guys preaching about ALPA this and ALPO that, and your careers going down the toilet, just like mine did a few years ago, with my third ALPA carrier. I am amused at even recently the NWA guys that give me the icy look and when I jumpseat, asking me "when are you going to organize?" and "when is ALPA coming on the property?" Never. One of our guys was denied again last week. Why don't you all strike to keep your wages...simply walk off the job until the company agrees to keep you on board for what you are making now. Why not? Because you have no unity. The sooner you all realize that ALPA gives you zero protection...nadda...the better off you will all be. Take that % that you pay DW every month and put it in the bank, whatever. Wiping your ash with it every morning would put it to better use. ALPA was great when the airlines are printing money, they negotiated these huge contracts because the airline could affored to pay, but now that the shat has hit the fan, what now. What are you paying dues for? Baffles me. General, let's say Delta offered JB -$10, or lower, with a 50 hour guarantee...then what? What are you going to do? Strike? I think not. I think you will somehow defend your new pathetic wages with your latest spin on why. Two good things may come of that, (1) I can now childishly rip on you for not caring and (2) some of your profound Delta arrogance may be removed from this board (although I doubt it) We are employees in a countrywith bancruptcy laws that protect the company so well that the employees will have to settle for whatever they get, period. You thinking ALPA can save you, that's funny. You will make whatever your airline can afford to pay you. No more, no less. The airline could pay us in wooden nickles after filing Ch.11. General, I hope to hear you "raising the bar" again in 6 months after your wage has been cut by 60%. It's coming pal. At least you have someone to blame...those pesky JB pilots who didn't care! What a fukn joke.

You don't see us putting down Southwest's pay rates, probably because they are good for 737s. That company does well, and treats their employees well. Your company slapped you in the face with the very low E190 rates, and now everyone will copy. I would jump up and down happy if DL said, "We are going to pay our 737 pilots (or equivalent) Southwest 737 wages." They deserve the high rates over there. Now, instead, in bad times--we go for the lowest rates on a 100 seater---and your airline has them, even though you seem to turn a profit. I wonder what you would have negotiated if you could have done so? As far as our financial picture, there is not much I can do about that now. I will go along for the ride, and maybe end up flying a Delwest 747 someday. There may not be much money in it, but I will be rich on those Bangkok layovers!

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[bafanguy]

GL,

and I suggested to our MEC that we use something similar to SWA's lance capt. program...but that was shot down. "It will never work," was the response I got.

DL_Infidel,

Delta DID, in fact, have something akin to the "lance captain" thing you mentioned. It was called the "dual pool" and allowed a senior DC8 FO, for example, to hold a second position as a DC9 captain to be called when they ran out of enough people in the DC9 capt category. These type of shortages were dealt with in other ways in more recent contracts.

The program got negotiated away years ago, IIRC, because it slowed seat progression by allowing the company to get by without correctly staffing the DC9 capt category ( not to mention the issue of holding quals in two differents seats on two different airplanes). I can't attack or defend the issue but am merely providing perspective on what the MEC told you. I guess they're all too young to remember.

History lesson over...when the bell rings, go to arthmetic.

 

[Dizel8]

"You don't see us putting down Southwest's pay rates, probably because they are good for 737s. That company does well, and treats their employees well. Your company slapped you in the face with the very low E190 rates, and now everyone will copy."

For the longest period of time, the SWA pilots got grief because of their "low" pay, now that they are near the top, it has stopped.

As for the pay on the 190, jetblue did not copy the USAir MDA pay, so why should DAL copy jetblue?

 

[General Lee]

"You don't see us putting down Southwest's pay rates, probably because they are good for 737s. That company does well, and treats their employees well. Your company slapped you in the face with the very low E190 rates, and now everyone will copy."

For the longest period of time, the SWA pilots got grief because of their "low" pay, now that they are near the top, it has stopped.

As for the pay on the 190, jetblue did not copy the USAir MDA pay, so why should DAL copy jetblue?

Thanks to your management, it is the new benchmark for 100 seaters. It is. And, of course, there was really no vocal opposition from you guys---at least that we could hear, or Dave Bushey could hear.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[N2264J]

Re: Grinstien says Delta will be ok!

Why do you want to stay at Delta anyway General? You will be working for a lot less with gutted work rules and benefits and no DB plan. Why do you want to fly big planes for so little and lower the bar? Wouldn't it be better to just follow the "natural progression" and try to work for a solvent airline like UPS or Fedex that pays fairly for big equipment? Are you just too lazy to give up your 9 years, vacation, nice schedules and domicile? You're going to undercut other carriers pay scales on big planes because you don't want to interview and start at the bottom somewhere else? Shame on you

General Lee must be a lifer.

 

[Dan Roman]

First of all and lastly, it's gonna be OK. Look at history. Look at UAL of late. DL and NWA unfortunately have to go through the same grieving process that everybody else in BK has gone through. How fast you go through all of the steps and accept BOHICA, the faster you guys can move on.

It's too bad that it has to happen to anybody, but it has. For those who have to live it, don't listen to all the self-styled "experts" here on this Board, it will only serve to depress and upset you. Most have nothing more to offer than an opinion, and we all know what those are like- and what they're worth, don't we.

Right now, do what you know how to do best, and don't let it consume you. Changes unfortunately are coming for you too and how you deal with change will seperate the victims from the survivors. Decide what you want to be.

Keep your eyes forward and your chins up. It will be OK.

Good luck to you all.

UAL78

This is some of the best advice here. Like UAL I went through BK with Hawaiian. The fact is, the world keeps turning, you still have plenty of oppurtunity to have a life. Their are things more important in life than your job or how much money you make. People in other lines of work deal with adversity all the time. Your average small business owner deals with more ups and downs than we could dream of, and works a LOT harder. Is it fair what is happening to our careers? NO, but dealing with it rationally is what counts.

 

[ThisistheDream]

I think the post should be called, Grinstien will be Okay, not Delta and the employees

 

[DL_Infidel]

DL_Infidel,

Delta DID, in fact, have something akin to the "lance captain" thing you mentioned. It was called the "dual pool" and allowed a senior DC8 FO, for example, to hold a second position as a DC9 captain to be called when they ran out of enough people in the DC9 capt category. These type of shortages were dealt with in other ways in more recent contracts.

The program got negotiated away years ago, IIRC, because it slowed seat progression by allowing the company to get by without correctly staffing the DC9 capt category ( not to mention the issue of holding quals in two differents seats on two different airplanes). I can't attack or defend the issue but am merely providing perspective on what the MEC told you. I guess they're all too young to remember.

History lesson over...when the bell rings, go to arthmetic.

bafanguy,

I appreciate the history lesson...I am too young to remember as well. Cheers.

 

[Dizel8]

Thanks to your management, it is the new benchmark for 100 seaters. It is. And, of course, there was really no vocal opposition from you guys---at least that we could hear, or Dave Bushey could hear.....

Ahhh, so I suppose our 320 rates are also the new benchmark, wonder why it has not been so at U and UAL? Very curious, is it not?

I am sure there will be much opposition at DALPA, further, I am sure that you will keep us updated on all the talk, all the time and that we shall hear every single little tidbit, is that not so?

You now have the opportunity to right such a wrong, a wrong that you have espoused upon ad naseum. Will you do the right thing, will you right this wrong, will you stand up and fight for the all the little people? Oh, the glorious opportunity you have been given, mon General, to go forth and slay the dragon. Stand up, be counted, you are a Delta Professional!

 

[B6Guy]

Hey General

Hey General, back when the A320 CA rate was $78/hr, were you concerned?? And what did you think when the company just a month or so after 9/11 gave us a raise to $110/hr. Why? Because the A320 was making a profit.

The E190 hasn't flown one single revenue seat-mile yet. Once it has established a strong profit history for JB, I and most of us here at JetBlue have faith that the pay rate will go up.

History shows it happened before, the same management team is here [with the addition of DBushy] so there is reason for us to believe that the rates will go up.

You have beat this subject to death, and have been told over and over again that the pilots did have extensive meetings over the low rates. Yet you continue to ignore this in your rant over the pay rates, Now listen-up: we complained!! If management doesn't raise the rates, we will have to rethink our options. But not now, not with profits so meager or non-exsistant.

We are a young company, and growing rapidly, we need to be lean. We need to help the company through these tough times

You defend the senior Delta captains coming back under contract to fly, to help the company, which slows the recall of furloughed pilots. Which keeps your furloughed pilots with NO PAY. Is this better than low pay for a year or so?? I don't believe we are wrong to defend and have faith in our management.

Come back to the E190 pay at JB in two years. There will be a track record to point at for facts.