Great News!! Flight Options Has Been Bought!!!!!

[SilverSurfer]

Equal opportunity

NJW
Please let me know where I said they could not be profitable. I believe what I said was that when the increased costs were passed along as increased aircraft management costs, it might have a negative impact. Netjets relies on a number of areas to be profitable, not the least of which is aircraft sales. They are impacted not only be sales but by the residual value predictions, management fees, all of which translate to hourly costs. Netjets has been prospering and there are a number of things that contribute to that, reducing the drain of Netjets Europe as example.
My point is Flight Options is not in the same situation, however, in both of them one needs to have a business plan that works, operate in an economic environment that enables them to succeed, and execute the plan. Obviously employees come into that execution and all companies want happy employees.. What I repeatedly have said, if you do not get the first part, there will be no second part. One last point, we will not find out how these contracts really effect the companies unless there is a downturn in the business. Then we will see.

Good post, well thought out.

I hope that if and when the time for a down turn in the economy comes and the company comes to the union looking for concessions, that we will only come to an agreement when management agrees to give up the same percentages that is asked from the employees. Seeing management prosper while asking rank and file to endure huge pay cuts is criminal. I don't know who to place blame on when this has happened in the industry, management or the Union leadership that agreed to it.

 

[Whoosh!]

This Ed guy (self proclaimed Maytag-man) used to have so much time on his hands as a PM that he would send out daily trivia to all the mid-cabin pilots' blackberries. I think it was one of his last desperate attempts to make friends when he saw that he was in hot water. He finally stopped when he realized the responses he was getting were really guys making fun of him.

It's no doubt this guys name is showing up on these boards- was bound to happen. You reading this Ed? Maybe you should have thought twice before screwing all those pilots over, huh? What goes around comes around. Good luck at your next job (if that rumor is true). What a retard.

 

[netjetwife]

...I hope that if and when the time for a down turn in the economy comes ...management agrees to give up the same percentages... . Seeing management prosper while asking rank and file to endure huge pay cuts is criminal. ....

Silver, those are my thoughts, too. I believe that the NJ pilots would do their part willingly if a true need existed and management made the same concessions. That said, I'm pleased for all involved that the company is prospering and the labor-management relationship has greatly improved, as well. To those NJ pilots still skeptical I say look how far you've come in just two years. Efforts have been made by both sides and I wish to give credit where credit is due. I'm proud of the Union pilots my husband flies with, and of the company he works for.
Sincerely,
Netjetwife

 

[learflyer]

This Ed guy (self proclaimed Maytag-man) used to have so much time on his hands as a PM that he would send out daily trivia to all the mid-cabin pilots' blackberries. I think it was one of his last desperate attempts to make friends when he saw that he was in hot water. He finally stopped when he realized the responses he was getting were really guys making fun of him.

It's no doubt this guys name is showing up on these boards- was bound to happen. You reading this Ed? Maybe you should have thought twice before screwing all those pilots over, huh? What goes around comes around. Good luck at your next job (if that rumor is true). What a retard.

I left about a little over a year ago. Remember that daily wx report from that kid which was sent to all the BB's every morning? "There's an occluded front stretching from orf to ict."

 

[SilverSurfer]

Equal Pain

Silver, those are my thoughts, too. I believe that the NJ pilots would do their part willingly if a true need existed and management made the same concessions. That said, I'm pleased for all involved that the company is prospering and the labor-management relationship has greatly improved, as well. To those NJ pilots still skeptical I say look how far you've come in just two years. Efforts have been made by both sides and I wish to give credit where credit is due. I'm proud of the Union pilots my husband flies with, and of the company he works for.
Sincerely,
Netjetwife

We all know that the economy goes through some cyclical ups and downs and that the company will have to make adjustments to stay viable. Taking a obstanent inflexible position would be unreasonable and I think most of us would be willing to do what's necessary. That said, It is unreasonable for management to ask other employees to take the necessary cuts if they are not willing to take the same cuts. I for one would never support a concession that was not matched by management.

NJW you are right about a different attitude at NJ, on both sides of the table. Management finally broke the code and now understands that the company will not prosper without enthusiastic support from their largest employee group with the most impact on their final product. I think it fair to say that most of us have pride for our work already programed in. When you add to that appreciation of that work by the company and management it instills a roll your sleeves up get the job done environment. NJ management has truly gone the extra mile to show that appreciation and now has a enthusiastic partner group in making the company prosper.

Options management suffers form the same misguided arrogance that NJ management did for years. It took a directive from Buffet to NJ management to end that arrogance, to settle things with the pilots, and the get the company back on track. I hope that it doesn't take years for HIG to come to the realization that Buffet came to. If they do Options my not survive.

 

[SilverSurfer]

Equal Pain

Silver, those are my thoughts, too. I believe that the NJ pilots would do their part willingly if a true need existed and management made the same concessions. That said, I'm pleased for all involved that the company is prospering and the labor-management relationship has greatly improved, as well. To those NJ pilots still skeptical I say look how far you've come in just two years. Efforts have been made by both sides and I wish to give credit where credit is due. I'm proud of the Union pilots my husband flies with, and of the company he works for.
Sincerely,
Netjetwife

We all know that the economy goes through some cyclical ups and downs and that the company will have to make adjustments to stay viable. Taking a obstanent inflexible position would be unreasonable and I think most of us would be willing to do what's necessary. That said, It is unreasonable for management to ask other employees to take the necessary cuts if they are not willing to take the same cuts. I for one would never support a concession that was not matched by management.

NJW you are right about a different attitude at NJ, on both sides of the table. Management finally broke the code and now understands that the company will not prosper without enthusiastic support from their largest employee group with the most impact on their final product. I think it fair to say that most of us have pride for our work already programed in. When you add to that appreciation of that work by the company and management it instills a roll your sleeves up get the job done environment. NJ management has truly gone the extra mile to show that appreciation and now has a enthusiastic partner group in making the company prosper.

Options management suffers form the same misguided arrogance that NJ management did for years. It took a directive from Buffet to NJ management to end that arrogance, to settle things with the pilots, and the get the company back on track. I hope that it doesn't take years for HIG to come to the realization that Buffet came to. If they do Options may not survive.

 

[SilverSurfer]

Oops

OOPS!!!!!
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[B19 Flyer]

I'm proud of the Union pilots my husband flies with, and of the company he works for.
Sincerely,
Netjetwife

Did you have the same pride of the American Airlines union that helped to get him furloughed from there? And if the same thing was to happen at NJ (who thought it would ever happen at AA, right?) Would you hold the same opinion?

 

[netjetwife]

Silver, it's nice to read a post recognizing that the union-company relationship has, indeed, improved. I never doubted that the pilotgroup would take notice when the new spirit of cooperation was spreading and turning green.... It's been growing for two years and the fruits are ready for harvesting... I encourage the NJ pilots to grab their IBB baskets (ballots) and join in.

In all seriousness, I'm glad the NJ pilots have this well-deserved opportunity and I think the timing may help the Options pilots in their fight for industry standard wages. At the bargaining table they can point out that their peers are getting another raise while Options pilots are expected to perform the same duties for less money. The Ops pilots have a just cause and denying that will expose how arrogant management is there. Hopefully, HIG would rather start things off in a more positive light.

B19, my husband was laid off, as many other pilots were across the industry, after 9-11. The union wasn't to blame for that.... At the time he warned me that AA's management was taking advantage of the situation to move more flying to the regionals where the pilots were paid much less. Watching managers scramble to protect their own nest eggs while loudly calling for the Union to make big concessions convinced me that my husband was right. (I have personal experience with what Silver and I have been posting). I fully supported his decision to turn down the Eagle job with its pathetic wages, but I did welcome the AA stock options the Union got from management for the furloughed pilots. To answer your question: the Union acted honorably but management clearly did not. I'm proud to say that the Union fought for the pilots at the bottom of the seniority list while management exhibited arrogance and deceit.

You ask: if the same thing was to happen at NJ would I hold the same opinion? If both sides acted the same way as my previous experience, yes, my opinion would be the same again. That said, if the spirit of cooperation at NJA holds/continues to strengthen then I would fully expect to see the pilots and management work together for fair solutions, just as they have recently been doing. NJW

 

[B19 Flyer]

B19, my husband was laid off, as many other pilots were across the industry, after 9-11. The union wasn't to blame for that.... At the time he warned me that AA's management was taking advantage of the situation to move more flying to the regionals where the pilots were paid much less. Watching managers scramble to protect their own nest eggs while loudly calling for the Union to make big concessions convinced me that my husband was right. (I have personal experience with what Silver and I have been posting). I fully supported his decision to turn down the Eagle job with its pathetic wages, but I did welcome the AA stock options the Union got from management for the furloughed pilots. To answer your question: the Union acted honorably but management clearly did not. I'm proud to say that the Union fought for the pilots at the bottom of the seniority list while management exhibited arrogance and deceit.

You ask: if the same thing was to happen at NJ would I hold the same opinion? If both sides acted the same way as my previous experience, yes, my opinion would be the same again. That said, if the spirit of cooperation at NJA holds/continues to strengthen then I would fully expect to see the pilots and management work together for fair solutions, just as they have recently been doing. NJW

For one so knowledgable, you seem to forget that the downturn began long before 9/11. I guess the management arrogance and deciept must have been a wide-spread virus that spread itself throughout the entire industry. After all, who could ever believe a union contact would cripple an air carrier.

 

[netjetwife]

Unlike some posters, B19, I restricted my comments about a union to my own personal experience. My husband was with AA a short time so I posted the only factual information I had. Perhaps you could also try confining your remarks to your personal experiences with a union(s). Which one were you a member of previously? Currently you belong to?

I think that it's wrong to spread misinformation and I am against biased posting. Fairness mandates we judge each group by their own track record. Obviously, it is 1108 that I am knowledgeable about and those are the union issues that affect this industry. I have noticed that board members who stick to the issues are more credible and their posts are more relevant....hint, hint...

 

[Frac Cap]

I have to say, Silver had some good points. I hope and think H.I.G. realizes the "honeymoon" won't last long if they don't quickly correct the many years of our current managements neglect and habit of taking from the employee group.Time will tell.

I am still optimistic, but I won't be for long.

 

[skyismyoffice]

For one so knowledgable, you seem to forget that the downturn began long before 9/11. I guess the management arrogance and deciept must have been a wide-spread virus that spread itself throughout the entire industry. After all, who could ever believe a union contact would cripple an air carrier.

Actually, there is probably some truth to that statement...

 

[Hobbes]

For one so knowledgable, you seem to forget that the downturn began long before 9/11. I guess the management arrogance and deciept must have been a wide-spread virus that spread itself throughout the entire industry. After all, who could ever believe a union contact would cripple an air carrier.

Is this an "air carrier" section of the forum? Didn't think so. Go post there if you are who you say you are dingleberry. The issues of a fractional and an air carrier are very different and unique in every way. To use either to justify policy or viewpoint on the other is an error in judgment and logic, one that I would not expect someone with your close minded perspective to grasp.

Your very existence is saddening, and I feel sorry for you, and any family members you have. If you are NOT associated with FLOPs or Fud and Harrison, and you are spending this much time on the fractional board, you are just a very sad, bored, useless individual. If you are associated with FLOPs and FH, you are a deceitful, lying, SCHEMING, useless individual.

We all know that mgmt is afraid that their little dream house of personal cash flow may become much more accountable with established rules and a contract, and that is what you are fighting against.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Unlike some posters, B19, I restricted my comments about a union to my own personal experience. My husband was with AA a short time so I posted the only factual information I had. Perhaps you could also try confining your remarks to your personal experiences with a union(s). Which one were you a member of previously? Currently you belong to?

I think that it's wrong to spread misinformation and I am against biased posting. Fairness mandates we judge each group by their own track record. Obviously, it is 1108 that I am knowledgeable about and those are the union issues that affect this industry. I have noticed that board members who stick to the issues are more credible and their posts are more relevant....hint, hint...

First of all, it was your husband, not you. So, as I didn't belong to the union that forced my most recent layoff, I'm just as qualified as you to speak my piece.

I've been on the receiving end of what ALPA can do to a carrier and that also qualifies me to speak my mind. Furthermore, I spent just enough time at a fractional to clearly understand the challenges and financial stucture.

If it churned up a few bad memories, I'm not sorry. I also lost a job at a major carrier at the same time your husband lost his. They were both for the same exact reason. Unions that dragged their feet after they got their way by dumping the managers they perceived as problems.

The exact same management that gave record breaking profits 2 - 5 years earlier didn't all of a sudden become stupid. Management were heros to the union when the big contracts were signed. When the industry went sour airlines tried to react and the unions dragged their feet like they have throughout the entire history of the industry, hence your husband and I were both forced into career changes neither of us planned on.

You can say what you want about unions, but the fact is that if the union acted quicker your husband would be looking at a much larger payday ten years from now than he is now. All the CEOs that were previously heros bailed out quickly with union pressure and even then the unions still dragged their feet.

Your husband has chosen a fractional with a small airplane with a union, I chose the non union carrier that operates big airplanes.

I have secured my future by ensuring that no union will EVER screw me over again. My career is in my hands, and not in the hands of somebody that says they are out for my best interest, then drags their feet to the point of which layoffs begin to occur.

Your husband has chosen to repeat what you've done before. The future remains to be seen, but I chose NOT to go down the failed road a second time.(hint, hint)

 

[B19 Flyer]

Is this an "air carrier" section of the forum? Didn't think so. Go post there if you are who you say you are dingleberry. The issues of a fractional and an air carrier are very different and unique in every way. To use either to justify policy or viewpoint on the other is an error in judgment and logic, one that I would not expect someone with your close minded perspective to grasp.

Your very existence is saddening, and I feel sorry for you, and any family members you have. If you are NOT associated with FLOPs or Fud and Harrison, and you are spending this much time on the fractional board, you are just a very sad, bored, useless individual. If you are associated with FLOPs and FH, you are a deceitful, lying, SCHEMING, useless individual.

We all know that mgmt is afraid that their little dream house of personal cash flow may become much more accountable with established rules and a contract, and that is what you are fighting against.

Issues are no different and the torture of what the FLOPS guys are going through right now proves that. A union is a union.

 

[Hobbes]

Regardless B19, I still say:

Your very existence is saddening, and I feel sorry for you, and any family members you have. If you are NOT associated with FLOPs or Fud and Harrison, and you are spending this much time on the fractional board, you are just a very sad, bored, useless individual. If you are associated with FLOPs and FH, you are a deceitful, lying, SCHEMING, useless individual.

In many ways I want you to go away, but also in many ways you help the cause of the union at FLOPs. Just like we cannot appreciate Sunny Days without Rainy ones, most would not appreciate the value of common sense without you.

 

[netjetwife]

... If you are NOT associated with FLOPs or Fud and Harrison, ....
...funny!

We all know that mgmt is afraid that their little dream house of personal cash flow may become much more accountable with established rules and a contract, and that is what you are fighting against.

These days contracts are standard on big ticket items and important investments. My sister and her husband are having a house built. The builder gave them a contract which they took to their lawyer who made changes and then both sides sat down to negotiate the details. How can anyone suggest that a pilot's career is less of an investment?!

Today I was given a contract for special order garage doors. Every detail of my order was listed along with the payment schedule--half now and half upon completion. I was told that schedule is standard and I agreed it is. I added one more thing before signing the contract. I had learned that many companies haul away the old doors at no extra charge. I also expected to get the industry standard so I negotiated for it. Do you realize that, in essence, B19 is suggesting that professional pilots-- responsible for lives and airplanes-- are less in need of a contract than garage door installers?!

 

[fischman]

Your husband has chosen a fractional with a small airplane with a union, I chose the non union carrier that operates big airplanes.

What does the size of the airplane have to do with anything?

 

[netjetwife]

First of all, it was your husband, not you. Here we go again.... When a pilot has a spouse and/or children, the whole family is affected by the contract/Union. Spouses can belong to the message board and learn how the Union works--from the inside, especially when married to a union leader. So, as I didn't belong to the union that forced my most recent layoff, I'm just as qualified as you to speak my piece. I beg to differ. I have the inside perspective while you are complaining from the outside. Furthermore, we're discussing 1108. The Local that the Options pilotgroup happens to belong to. All unions are not alike-- just as people are different, the members make the union what it is. One union can even be different over time depending on the leadership. 1108 is nothing like its predecessor, 284.

I've been on the receiving end of what ALPA can do to a carrier and that also qualifies me to speak my mind. I agree w/Hobbes. You seem to be in the wrong forum. 1108 is not ALPA. Furthermore, I spent just enough time at a fractional to clearly understand the challenges and financial stucture. When was that? Are you suggesting the 3000 plus members of 1108 do not?

If it churned up a few bad memories, I'm not sorry. I wasn't looking for it, but most would express sympathy. I also lost a job at a major carrier at the same time your husband lost his. That's too bad. What was the job? They were both for the same exact reason. Unions... It is human reaction to look for a scape goat. .....hence your husband and I were both forced into career changes neither of us planned on. True, but he likes frac flying better; our story had a happy ending. Did yours?

You can say what you want about unions, but the fact is that if the union acted quicker Hardly... My husband was furloughed by the end of Sept; the decision was made by management right away. I was angry at their knee-jerk reaction. They didn't know for sure how the country would react. They just wanted to reorganize and pay pilots chump change wages at the Regionals. your husband would be looking at a much larger payday ten years from now than he is now. Bogus! AA offered to let him keep flying--at Eagle. Lots of RJ pilots have come to NJA, and more are currently applying. All the CEOs that were previously heros... I'm not agreeing that they were. IMO they were unethical. My husband and other pilots tell me the airlines were mismanaged long before 9-11. And we all know that corporate greed has been a problem in our country, especially among CEOs...

Your husband has chosen a fractional with a small airplane with a union, Exactly. His career is our family's greatest investment and must be protected with a contract. We chose rules over whims. I chose the non union carrier that operates big airplanes. Who? What do you do there? What do they pay their pilots? BTW, posters routinely compare pay and info here; it isn't considered rude to ask such questions.

I have secured my future by ensuring that no union will EVER screw me over again. And will you also admit that you are making a prejudiced statement against 1108--the Union in this industry--who has a great record of standing up for its members AND working well with management? My career is in my hands, and not in the hands of somebody that says they are out for my best interest, then drags their feet to the point of which layoffs begin to occur. If you truly understood the history of the frac industry you would know that in this case it is managers who have drug their feet and held wages down at levels that qualify for govt assistance.

Your husband has chosen to repeat what you've done before. The future remains to be seen, but I chose NOT to go down the failed road a second time.(hint, hint)

Speaking of second times and the future....if the IBB proposal is ratified (as most think it will be) my husband will be getting another raise. The NJA (unionized) pilots will be the best paid frac pilots in the industry, and in some Regionals, as well. The 2005 CBA got close but StrongUnion and the Company realized that they could do better by working together. In 1108 the pilotgroup (leaders, pilots, family members) decided that they can forge their own road. Trailblazers don't follow--they lead. So we'll push onward to a brighter future while you sit off to the side of the road alone. The Options pilots are following the NJ pilots. They're already part of the Union so you're too late with your FUD CAMPAIGN....hint, hint...