Great News!! Flight Options Has Been Bought!!!!!

[Guitar Guy]

Wow, NJW, very nice post!

:beer:

 

[Bugsmasher Plus]

Speaking of second times and the future....if the IBB proposal is ratified (as most think it will be) my husband will be getting another raise. The NJA (unionized) pilots will be the best paid frac pilots in the industry, and in some Regionals, as well. The 2005 CBA got close but StrongUnion and the Company realized that they could do better by working together. In 1108 the pilotgroup (leaders, pilots, family members) decided that they can forge their own road. Trailblazers don't follow--they lead. So we'll push onward to a brighter future while you sit off to the side of the road alone. The Options pilots are following the NJ pilots. They're already part of the Union so you're too late with your FUD CAMPAIGN....hint, hint...

OMG, he throws the bait and all the rest of you jump on it! THAT's entertainment!

 

[netjetwife]

Thanks Guitar Guy! I admire your posting style, too.

Bug, I see it differently. Some of us have decided to use such posts as a vehicle to deliver our own messages to the newest Union members, especially those at the bargaining table. Hobbes used a good analogy to point that out, btw. So, while I'm not displeased that you enjoyed my post, please understand that your entertainment isn't the motivating factor here....

Note to NJ pilots on the road: I'm aware that some of you are also entertained by my posts, but I know that you do see the bigger picture so I'm happy to help you pass some time at the FBO, hotel, etc.. Thanks for the words of support expressed to my husband and/or sent to me in PMs.... NJW

 

[nomore]

definition I looked it up!

dingleberry

a small clot of dung, as clinging to the hindquarters of a management stooge.

Honest I didn't edit it too much.

 

[Publishers]

A couple of observations:
One thing that I always disagreed with is when unions call adjustments concessions. After 9/11 we were not talking concessions, we were talking about major adjustments to an industry trying to survive.
A second observation and I am not defending American but rather pointing out that management often does a better job of managing in crisis than when things are booming. Shareholders and boards (the guys that pay the executives) tend to pay more for managing those times than when things are great.
While Netjets wife has her viewpoint, the fact is that she has never started a company, never had to meet payroll from her own pocket, never had to tell an employee group that you were shuting down the company or operation and they were out of jobs, never had to make a profit, never had to answer to the board or shareholders, never deal with paying for health care packages, or deal with the hundreds of issues that some people do. Air Force, American, Netjets do not begin to reflect on the typical in this industry

 

[B19 Flyer]

Speaking of second times and the future....if the IBB proposal is ratified (as most think it will be) my husband will be getting another raise. The NJA (unionized) pilots will be the best paid frac pilots in the industry, and in some Regionals, as well. The 2005 CBA got close but StrongUnion and the Company realized that they could do better by working together. In 1108 the pilotgroup (leaders, pilots, family members) decided that they can forge their own road. Trailblazers don't follow--they lead. So we'll push onward to a brighter future while you sit off to the side of the road alone. The Options pilots are following the NJ pilots. They're already part of the Union so you're too late with your FUD CAMPAIGN....hint, hint...

Why did your husband choose American first over NetJets? I can't imagine he planned on flying for a Frac with the quality resume he has.

Like all professional pilots I'm pretty sure that he wanted the $$ that a legacy carrier will provide over the length of a career. If not, he would have gone straight to NJ instead. The interaction between management and a union redirected his career.

For those young pilots that have never experienced the union turmoil, just read the posts on this board. While many union members will make perfect sense, understand that you will live with this crap every day of your career if you join a carrier with a union. If you choose to go with a fractional, there are still quality carriers out there without unions that will provide a great quality of life without the needless distractions.

The point is, that flying for any carrier with a union will produce turmoil and rherotic throughout your career. Not all airlines/carriers are perfect, so do your research. You will find greater peace of mind flying for an air carrier without a union than one that has one. Note the silence of many of the fractionals on these boards. There are some pretty good ones out there without unions. When you see a carrier without a union, ask why it hasn't happened. It's probably going to be pretty well run, and that's the best spot to bet your career.

 

[Guitar Guy]

When you see a carrier without a union, ask why it hasn't happened. It's probably going to be pretty well run, and that's the best spot to bet your career.
[/FONT]

I guess that explains why FLOPS went from no union to voting in 1108.

 

[Freedom]

When you see a carrier without a union, ask why it hasn't happened. It's probably going to be pretty well run, and that's the best spot to bet your career.

Bob (B19) finally gets caught speaking the Truth!!!!!

I completely agree with you Bob. What Ford and Harrison attempts to do to undermine the Union's efforts towards securing a Fair Contract, is to make the Pilot Group long for the days of "Peace" prior to voting in the Union. The Union Busters hope the Pilots will not have long term memories.

Well, I'm also here to keep the memory fresh. Prior to Scheeringa stepping foot into the Flight Options CEO seat, our Company had among both the former RTA and former original Options Pilots, perhaps the most Pro Business Pilots in the Business.

But we also have some of the most intelligent Pilots in the business, with much more business savvy then just being able to fly airplanes. When Scheeringa and his hit squad, Sanjay and Bob, started attacking the Pilot group's Compensation and Quality of Life, our Pilots did the only thing they could to defend themselves from the attack for the long term, we voted in a Union, a quality one at that.

Unfortunately, until we have our First Contract, Management can pretty much still do whatever they want. It is up to us as a United Pilot Group, to show them we won't put up with it. That means, the harder they push, the harder we push back, and then some.

Don't do anything illegal for or against the Company.

Read into that as much or as little as you like. That is the Union's Official position. Go talk to the NetJets Pilots; ask them what it took from each of them individually to bring a Fair Contract to completion.

Thanks Bob. Your statement makes very clear a position I have always held to be true:

When you spend your life telling Lies, eventually, your Lies will catch up with you. Looks like they just did BOB!

Freedom is NOT Free!

 

[netjetwife]

Why did your husband choose American first over NetJets? I can't imagine he planned on flying for a Frac with the quality resume he has. We had many AF friends flying for various airlines. It seemed the logical choice at the time.

Like all professional pilots I'm pretty sure that he wanted the $$ that a legacy carrier will provide over the length of a career. If not, he would have gone straight to NJ instead. It wasn't just the money. We liked the idea of being able to fly for "free" as a family and had lots of travel ideas. If the latest pay raise is voted in his earnings will make the NJ job a very good decision: more stability, no commuting, and flying is more interesting/challenging. All the NJ pilots that are furloughed but choose to stay rather than go back when their number comes up will be choosing NJ over a legacy carrier. The fact that many are staying speaks for itself and is a tribute to 1108.

For those young pilots that have never experienced the union turmoil, just read the posts on this board. And realize that you will have the chance to help direct your own career destiny rather than leaving your fate to the whim of others. Those who, like my husband, enjoy working as a team on common goals would enjoy the camaraderie that comes with volunteering in the union. While many union members will make perfect sense, understand that you will live with this crap every day of your career if you join a carrier with a union. This is where my insider perspective makes me more qualified than you to discuss what it is like to belong to a union. "Crap" is more applicable to a FUD Campaign than the reality of being a Union member. If you choose to go with a fractional, there are still quality carriers out there without unions that Are hoping the IBB proposal will pass so that their companies will be compelled to also raise the pay. will provide a great quality of life without the needless distractions. Such as: Opportunity for self-direction in your career and peace of mind from greater job security, knowing there are rules that must be followed and Stewards that will be on your side in a dispute.

The point is, that flying for any carrier with a union will produce turmoil and rherotic throughout your career. That biased statement doesn't reflect the reality of 1108's latest round of cooperative bargaining; those who didn't follow closely will be surprised by a contract offer in the mailbox showing a nice pay raise and a signing bonus worth up to $25K. Not all airlines/ carriers are perfect, so do your research. You will find greater peace of mind flying for an air carrier without a union than one that has one. Not according to the many pilots that are actually union members. I note that you are not so you're opinion must be discounted for its lack of experience. The fact that far more aviation jobs come w/a union speaks to the NEED for one. Note the silence of many of the fractionals on these boards. Those without union protection have to fear for their jobs so they run a risk by posting here and commenting on management. There are some pretty good ones out there without unions. When you see a carrier without a union, ask why it hasn't happened. It's probably going to be pretty well run, and that's the best spot to bet your career.

The vast majority of frac pilots are unionized--for good reason. Many pilots coming into the industry choose NJA because of 1108. Last year the pilots of Flt Ops voted in the union and other frac pilots are watching closely to see how their contract battle turns out. It must be noted that posters like you take a sudden interest during negotiations. The ebb and flow of anti-union rhetoric shows how threatened management is feeling. This tells me that the Options pilots are doing a great job! When the fighting gets intense you're making progress!
Hang in there!
Netjetwife

 

[WabiSabi]

Why did your husband choose American first over NetJets? I can't imagine he planned on flying for a Frac with the quality resume he has.

Why do the pilots that fly for majors with the quality of resumes they have? Your implication that NetJets is somehow a lesser aviation career path shows your lack of experience. To each their own. There are pros and cons to airlines and fracs. It depends on one's preference. To suggest otherwise it pretentious.

Like all professional pilots I'm pretty sure that he wanted the $$ that a legacy carrier will provide over the length of a career. If not, he would have gone straight to NJ instead. The interaction between management and a union redirected his career.

Frankly, this is a stupid nonsequitur. You're speaking from the peanut gallery.

Note the silence of many of the fractionals on these boards.

Are you friggin kidding???:laugh: This and other boards has a very strong presence of frac pilots. So, all of these pilots that have debunked one post of yours after another are RC pilots??? :smash: If you truly meant that, then you're a true idiot.

You should update your aircraft flown list as none of them show that you have flown for a major as you have implied. On the other hand, if you are a washed up mid level manager from a major, it all makes perfect sense.

Your "nothing is ever good about union representation for pilots" attitude is abject nonsense and shows your lack of reasoning. Even management folks can see pros and cons to union representation. You are a mere character on this board.

 

[B19 Flyer]

The vast majority of frac pilots are unionized--for good reason. Many pilots coming into the industry choose NJA because of 1108. Last year the pilots of Flt Ops voted in the union and other frac pilots are watching closely to see how their contract battle turns out. It must be noted that posters like you take a sudden interest during negotiations. The ebb and flow of anti-union rhetoric shows how threatened management is feeling. This tells me that the Options pilots are doing a great job! When the fighting gets intense you're making progress!
Hang in there!
Netjetwife

ROFL :laugh:

 

[netjetwife]

In a discussion of applying to a frac company, earlier today PilotPat posted on another thread -- "well, NJA is the only one I'd even consider going to." My posts are based on facts --not FUD.

I see by your articulate post... that you're again having a hard time arguing with reality, B19. The NJ board members can point to their recent history to back up every thing they say. Contract battles follow a predictable pattern, and many of us posting here remember this phase well. We've all heard that expression about laughing all the way to the bank. Well, we won't be doing it literally, but my husband and I just had a discussion about our family finances and there's lots to smile about. I should think that many other NJ couples are likewise pleased with the rate of return on their union dues.

Special request from my 11 yr old son: Please vote for the proposal because he is claiming that he and his sister deserve a new game system (current one is very outdated) as their bonus for the family time with their dad that was given up for IBB. Even kids recognize the value in being able to negotiate one's salary/allowance... I asked Morgan if he thinks the pilots should vote for the proposal and his answer was " Yes! It's a very good contract; they get a signing bonus, a whole bunch of money, and I get an X Box 360!" (I'm proud that my son has his priorities in order). The kids are also excited about the new vehicle they want us to get.

I am happy for all the NJ families that are also making plans to give themselves some well-earned rewards for working hard and supporting their Union.
Best Regards,
Netjetwife

 

[FRLWD]

BTW, when was the last time there was an opportunity to cross a picket line?

Probably the last time you did, scab.

 

[FRLWD]

Not all airlines/carriers are perfect, so do your research. There are some pretty good ones out there without unions.

Name them.

 

[netjetwife]

...You should update your aircraft flown list as none of them show that you have flown for a major as you have implied. On the other hand, if you are a washed up mid level manager from a major, it all makes perfect sense.....

I agree with your assessment, WS. I have also made an effort to understand where B19 is coming from. In exchanging information/opinions with him, I answered every question he asked me. Notice that he didn't reciprocate? (telling behavior) So, I'll make it easy for him to provide the background that will help explain the reasoning behind his posts. I am reposting the questions I previously asked. B19, you have the floor.

B19: Furthermore, I spent just enough time at a fractional to clearly understand the challenges and financial stucture. When was that? Are you suggesting the 3000 plus members of 1108 do not?

B19: I also lost a job at a major carrier at the same time your husband lost his. What was the job?

.. your husband and I were both forced into career changes neither of us planned on. True, but our story had a happy ending. Did yours?

I chose the non union carrier that operates big airplanes. Who? What do you do there? What do they pay their pilots?

I have secured my future by ensuring that no union will EVER screw me over again. And will you also admit that you are making a prejudiced statement against 1108--the Union in this industry--who has a great record of standing up for its members AND working well with management?

WS, I'd like to add to your analysis, if I may? ...a (bitter) washed up mid level manager from a major, (who has a huge chip on his shoulder and irrationally blames unions for the disappointments in his career). Fischman gets credit for the "irrational" observation which, admittedly, may have been a bit exaggerated... I think our educated guesses match the tenor of B19's posts. Or we can go with Hobbes and his FUD and Harrison theory...

 

[fischman]

The vast majority of frac pilots are unionized--for good reason. Many pilots coming into the industry choose NJA because of 1108. Last year the pilots of Flt Ops voted in the union and other frac pilots are watching closely to see how their contract battle turns out. It must be noted that posters like you take a sudden interest during negotiations. The ebb and flow of anti-union rhetoric shows how threatened management is feeling. This tells me that the Options pilots are doing a great job! When the fighting gets intense you're making progress!
Hang in there!
Netjetwife

ROFL :laugh:

She's right.

If you had ANY grip on reality you would see that.

 

[skyismyoffice]

When you see a carrier without a union, ask why it hasn't happened. It's probably going to be pretty well run, and that's the best spot to bet your career.

Yup that was my theory when I came to FLOPs. But believe it or not, during one of the most prosperous times in GA history this 'well run' non-union company began slashing away everything good about the company. I soon came to see the light that without a contract management could (and would) keep taking away from my quality of life in the name of 'profitability'. This led to my conclusion that if I am going to work for a large air carrier, the pilot force MUST be organized to protect themselves.

Bob, I am afraid we will always disagree.

 

[chingaso]

I call

B19, its time to put up or shut up.

What "major" carrier were you furloughed from due to ALPA?

What airline do you work for now? How much do you make?

Why do you concern yourself so greatly with Flight Options/Net Jets?

ALPA screwed you over? Time to man-up and get over it...you say you have a better life now, and a more stable career, so move on for heaven sake. Stop looking over your shoulder, whats past is passe. You gonna warn us off blondes because your first girlfriend dumped you for a college guy? Get a grip over your past or get some help.

Its hard to believe that you have international experience in a Beech 1900. You've said a lot, and in order for your comments to be taken with the slightest bit of seriousness, you're going to have to prove your credibility (without compromising your privacy, naturally).

I think you're a CFI. Or someone that was passed over by Netjets with a bone to pick.

BTW, my best friend was furloughed from AA less than a month after 9/11. The union had nothing to do with it. You contradict yourself: You say that the management at AA were considered heros for increasing profits, yet in another post you state that the "downturn" came long before 9/11. Which is it? Downturn or profit? You can't pick and choose to re-create history just to augment your argument.

If a pilot group wants a union, let them have a union. Why should any of this matter to you? Go to the airline forums. We like flying our small jets. Keep on allegedly flying that big iron and live and let live.

(Dang, that other guy was right. I took the bait. If B19 can't answer these questions and all the ones posed by NJW, we should ignore him, since he's obviously a poser.)

 

[netjetwife]

Good post, Chingaso! You nailed it, and this line was classic.... You gonna warn us off blondes because your first girlfriend dumped you for a college guy? I burst out laughing...and I'm a blonde, no less... Please don't worry about "taking the bait". I'm glad you posted. NJW

 

[SilverSurfer]

Union Buster

"Bob"/B19 does not have the experience that he would like those of us that have opposed his dribble to think. He offers no substantiation of his industry experience, he says he worked at a fractional, which one would that have been?, he talks about all the international operations experience he's had, I don't see it, he whines about the wrong that has been done to him by Unions, where? what carrier? when? He brags about the non Union carrier he's at now but refuses to name what this great carrier is. What Carrier is that "Bob"? Belly up to the bar "Bob" and put some meat on those anti Union bones.

I think it much more probable that "Bob"/B19 is nothing but some Union busting hack maybe even in the employ of the ass wipes at Ford & Harrison with the mission to diminish and discredit the work our Union is doing. As Gerry G said in another thread, its very curious that "Bob"/B19 shows up on this board right after we have a successful vote for representation and his interest is focused on Flight Options. :erm: