Great Lakes

[belliott]

No hate at all but this is exactly why you'll never make money.

How do you know how much I make? I have a side business/job that earns more than what I make flying.... and I am doing something to correct the low pay issue.... part of the ALPA movement here for a decent contract.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

How much should an airline that flies 4 people to Riverton, WY pay its labour? This is not continental express that flies a full rj to higher density American cities! It's GLA! Even if they paid double, it would still be less than we are worth.

Emb beat me to it, but as he pointed out this is the way our profession has been done for decades.

 

[Kalifornia]

How much should an airline that flies 4 people to Riverton, WY pay its labour? This is not continental express that flies a full rj to higher density American cities! It's GLA! Even if they paid double, it would still be less than we are worth.

Emb beat me to it, but as he pointed out this is the way our profession has been done for decades.

And for decades, you could actually count on moving up the ladder to make it a quality major carrier within say 10 years. Now you need to maneuver through years of substandard pay while keeping a clean record and then have luck to make it to a carrier that pays 100 grand a year or more with a decent schedule. And then hope you don't get furloughed during your first 10 years on the new glamor job. How much does a corporate pilot make flying 4 people to Riverton, WY?

 

[Salukipilot4590]

How do you know how much I make? I have a side business/job that earns more than what I make flying.... and I am doing something to correct the low pay issue.... part of the ALPA movement here for a decent contract.

You're doing it right then! I owe ya a beer!

Just think though...most people aren't doing what you're doing.

 

[wrxpilot]

Def a possibility so I ask you this... Would you rather work at a dead end computer job selling avionics day in day out in a somewhat hostile enviroment making between 17K and if your lucky and I mean real lucky 25-30K tops? Or make around the same flying at Lakes and possibly move on to bigger and better things? That's an honest question.

I'd do something else, somewhere else if necessary.

I grew up in Colorado, out in Evergreen and Golden. That's some of the most beautiful area in the country, and it was really hard to leave it. But I knew I if I didn't, I'd be facing decisions like "should I go to Great Lakes?". Leaving Colorado was the best thing possible for my aviation career. However... I know some people don't, under any circumstances, want to leave that area. That's understandable, but such inflexibility can come at a heavy price if your timing wasn't right with the aviation market.

If you were willing to move, there's no reason you couldn't do considerably better than topping out at $25-30k. But you're you, and I'm me. I respect your decision, even if I don't understand it.

 

[Lynxman]

If you were willing to move, there's no reason you couldn't do considerably better than topping out at $25-30k. But you're you, and I'm me. I respect your decision, even if I don't understand it.

I packed up and moved from IL to SW FL for what I thought was a good job (boy did that bite me in the a$$), so I would do it again no problem. My issues that face me I'm a low time guy trying to start out in this industry. Not too many options open to me at this point. Thanks for the help though I take it you drive a WRX nice choice.

 

[wrxpilot]

I packed up and moved from IL to SW FL for what I thought was a good job (boy did that bite me in the a$$), so I would do it again no problem. My issues that face me I'm a low time guy trying to start out in this industry. Not too many options open to me at this point. Thanks for the help though I take it you drive a WRX nice choice.

Yeah, I understand. It's pretty rough out there still, and I was very lucky I started out when I did.

I wish I had a WRX. I used to race one on track days with a friend, but those days are long past now. Someday I hope to have one though!

 

[gt1900]

My loan isn't 100K, rather 63K to be exact that's ratings plus degree. Nobody pays loans back in 10 years unless they can afford to. I'm looking at around $450-550 a month much more reasonable. Obviously as I make more money I'll pay more to get rid of it asap.

Just a quick lesson on economics for ya. The interest you pay on those student loans is a tax write-off. Your probably only paying 4 or maybe 5 percent on those loans, after taxes that gets dropped to 2-3%, or less in many cases. You can take the extra money you were going to pay down on those loans and invest in the market. You should have no problem making 5-10% interest in the market right now. In other words, by paying back those student loans early, rather than investing that money in the market, you are loosing money. Take the extra money and invest it, you will be better off in the long run! As you pay off your interest and you start to pay more towards the principle, then pay more money down towards the loans.

 

[Lynxman]

Unless I'm missing something there is no garuntee in the stock market. Are you referring to corporate bonds etc. etc.

 

[Trogdor]

Just an FYI, due to no upgrades for about 9 months, there is a huge back log of FOs waiting to upgrade at Lakes. New-hire pilots should expect to sit in the right seat for at least two years.

 

[embpic1]

Just an FYI, due to no upgrades for about 9 months, there is a huge back log of FOs waiting to upgrade at Lakes. New-hire pilots should expect to sit in the right seat for at least two years.

History repeating itself. I was hired at GLA back in 95. I sat for two years as an FO. That was pretty normal back then. Hell, even after I upgraded I had to go back to FO for 2 months. We were really fat on captains in 97. As time went on things changed. I remember being so short captains that they were hiring street captains. Upgrade came fast as furious. Things have slowed down again with the economy and such. This is a fluid industry. Things are always changing.

 

[Lynxman]

The window appears that its closed to apply. Any word on this? I have a friend who works for the company that offered to walk my resume in hopefully that will suffice.

 

[gt1900]

Unless I'm missing something there is no garuntee in the stock market. Are you referring to corporate bonds etc. etc.

Nevermind. You woulnd't get it if I wrote it down. Take a finance class.

 

[Lynxman]

Back on topic here anyone know about the app window being closed now?

 

[CA1900]

How much should an airline that flies 4 people to Riverton, WY pay its labour? This is not continental express that flies a full rj to higher density American cities! It's GLA!

Great Lakes gets a government subsidy to the tune of $60 Million per year to serve many of the small communities where it flies. That's on top of the ticket revenue. So no, I'm sorry, only having a few passengers on board does not justify the low pay scale.

 

[belliott]

You're doing it right then! I owe ya a beer!

Just think though...most people aren't doing what you're doing.

You don't owe me a beer.... I just want the story to be accurate.... there are a lot of different reasons why people choose to go to their respective regionals.... I just hope that people getting in now don't think that recovery is just around the corner because frankly I doubt it is... there is a multitude of ways to supplement a persons income but the real key in my opinion is to get involved with your respective unions... even in a very low stress manner...

My belief is this- If you aren't doing anything to correct the problem you better have a damn good reason for bitching. I hate having people tell me that this LEC or that Committee Rep is doing an awful job/ not doing what they think should happen and then they sit back on their haunches and moan and groan some more.... just because you help pay for the materials to build a house doesn't mean its going to build itself.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

How much does a corporate pilot make flying 4 people to Riverton, WY?

An airline flies passengers to generate revenue; whereas, a corporate flight department flies passengers as an expense to an existing corporation. One generates revenue (or tries to) and the other generates an expense. Your comparison is not apples to apples.

 

[Kalifornia]

An airline flies passengers to generate revenue; whereas, a corporate flight department flies passengers as an expense to an existing corporation. One generates revenue (or tries to) and the other generates an expense. Your comparison is not apples to apples.

Do you really think there is a huge pay disparity between a corporate owned limo driver and a limo driver who drives for weddings? Or for that matter a greyhound bus driver compared to the guy shuttling execs around a massive corporate warehouse:

http://www.glassdoor.com/Hourly-Pay/Greyhound-Bus-Driver-Hourly-Pay-E93_D_KO10,20.htm

Keep drinking before reality sets in, this airline career is pathetically payed compared to what it should

 

[DrunkIrishman]

Kalifornia-

You seem to be missing my point. I think pilots are worth more than they are paid whether it be airline or coporate. I also don't think all businesses have the same ability to pay their pilots. GLA doesn't make Goldman Sachs money so it certainly won't pay its employees as such. Make sense? Or am I still drinking?

 

[Kalifornia]

Kalifornia-

You seem to be missing my point. I think pilots are worth more than they are paid whether it be airline or coporate. I also don't think all businesses have the same ability to pay their pilots. GLA doesn't make Goldman Sachs money so it certainly won't pay its employees as such. Make sense? Or am I still drinking?

Nope, you're still drinking. It's only through bottom barrel negotiations between a major and a contract carrier like GLA that ensures those low margins and poorly justified pay your dues pay rates to unprofessionally treated pilots. They are still counting on enough suckers to to take the bait and believe it will be a guaranteed payoff down the line despite the decrease in those solid legacy jobs.

 

[Lynxman]

Thanks for turning the thread into pissing match about why it's a hell hole. Really really appreciate that.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

Thanks for turning the thread into pissing match about why it's a hell hole. Really really appreciate that.

Glad to help!

 

[DrunkIrishman]

Kalifornia-

We both seem to agree that GLA pilots are underpaid. We just seem to disagree on why. I never said I agree that our profession should be one that you have to make welfare wages to gain experience and move on; I merely pointed out that it has been done that way for a long time.

 

[samballs]

You're talking about first year, everyone knows it's almost equal to flying for minimum wage, probably below.... The problem is that by second year you should be upgrading and making more than some regional places and by third of fourth year you should be gone. So in the long run, you end up making more money going to GL.

No great lakes 1900 capt makes as much as most REG fo's, and until year 8 the 120 capts don't make as much as a OH FO. even Mesa fo's make as much as GL 1900 capts