Great Lakes Lost UA Codeshare

[skylane58]

A couple of clarifications:
1. Mesa used to fly 1900's and Dashes out of denver about six years ago. They got into a pissing contest with united then, and presto, we have Great Lakes. Mesa couldn't handle the pressure then, they can't do it now.

2. The new Rocky Mountain Airways isn't going to use Dash-8's, at least not at first. They are going to use Dash-7's, just like the old days. The first step isn't going to be an airline, persay. They are just going to do charters for a while to get things figured out while they work on the 121 Cert.

I hope GLA sticks around, I like them a heck of a lot more than Mesa. I have a some friend at GLA I don't want to see on the street. However, I do hope RMA gets going soon for I can have a job.

 

[skylane58]

One other thing that is in the works at Lakes is a Shuttle. I'm not talking air shuttle, I'm talking buses. They want to run busses like a plane, screen the PAX at the airport, load them on the ramp and ship them to the GLA gates at DEN. They want to do it out of the close markets and a few others. Laramie, CYS, FNL, Pueblo, etc. I know GLA dosn't fly into FNL or pueblo, but they want start driving from there.

 

[Skyward]

Why would an airline get in the Greyhound business? I’m sure the passengers would be really happy when the found out they paid all that money to fly and instead got a bus. If GLA does start this service it will be doomed to fail.

 

[FranktheTank]

Buses,

Hows that weed. No way on earth that Lakes in running buses. Why? Why pay to drive to Pueblo when you could do it your **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** self for way less. And, the pilots would never let it happen. Why? They're drenched in urin from continually getting pissed on from Cheyenne. Trust me when I say those pilots will take that company down and not think twice. Its just punishment after punishment around there. Great people to work with, but everyone is tired of taking it in the deucehole. The cntrtact has been in negotiaitons since the DC-3 came out. Its ridiculous. All airlines have thier problems, but you'll never really know until you've been a LAKER.

 

[Cardinal]

Skyward, did you forget that your company serves ABE from EWR with a bus, and other cities with "codeshared" rail service? It was a route served by a Beech once upon a time. Even British Airways throws it's flight numbers on the Chunnel trains and a few others. I still think it's an inane idea, but there is historical precedent.

If this is true, at least the company is leaving no stone unturned in its fight for survival. But I'm not sure that bus service can pull Lakes out of their $30 million hole, nor fix a -12% operating margin. Even Raytheon realizes the company is a dry hole. Their bailout is like United selling a transcon seat for $199 - you're losing money either way, but at least with this scenario, the longer the company survives, the more payments they will have made. Chances are those aircraft may never be placed with another lessor, or perhaps sold for pennies on the dollar to replace some DC-3 in Angola.

 

[Alaskaairlines]

I might add, or to replace some oldies in Alaska, actually the 1900 is quite popular up here.......
Alaska Central Express has at least one ex GLA 1900, the tail number is N***GL or N**GL, can't remember.

 

[stillaboo]

Just a glorified bus driver

If I have 25,000 TT in automobiles, but only 20 hours of big bus time, do I qualify for Great Lakes Buslines, or do I have to PFT on the short yellow bus so that I might one day get picked up by 'Lakes?

And what do I say when people tell me I'm just a 'glorified bus driver'?

-Boo!

 

[Skyward]

Cardinal, you are correct CAL does service ABE with a bus, but there is an important distinction to be made. Those CAL passengers are going to EWR to connect to somewhere in the CAL system not as a final destination, they are also getting 500 FF miles. That is the only bus route in the CAL system. With this purposed GLA service a much bigger % of their routes would be made up of bus routes, and without a code share partner are they really connecting to somewhere?

 

[canadflyau]

We are still code with Frontier, even if the supposed decision is made to lose the UAL code. It is amazing how pissed folks get when they won't work out a pmt plan, and it is UAL needing to work one with Lakes.

 

[skylane58]

I guess I should elaborate my statement. The busses will not replace the planes. All the flights will go that already go. GLA doen't serve Pueblo or Fort Collins. This is going to be a low cost thing, $38 buck one-way. Sure people may be able to drive them selfs, but they won't be checked in, screened, and they will have to pay for parking. This also isn't a for sure thing, they are just kicking around the idea right now. I know you think I smoke the real good stuff, but I was in the meeting when Voss threw out the idea.

 

[Pee_nuss]

Cardinal, you are correct CAL does service ABE with a bus, but there is an important distinction to be made. Those CAL passengers are going to EWR to connect to somewhere in the CAL system not as a final destination, they are also getting 500 FF miles. That is the only bus route in the CAL system. With this purposed GLA service a much bigger % of their routes would be made up of bus routes, and without a code share partner are they really connecting to somewhere?

Skywest is going to start using a bus from fresno to visallia and LAX OXN and SNA. The problem is that ALPA says those are their busses, and any positions created by busses with more that 50 seats, a furloughed United bus driver from LAX must be hired. When the TA is up, we will try to get a separate payscale for the different busses:

0-50 seat diesel
50-70 turbo-diesel
and 70-90 seat turbo- diesel

The problem is that mesa has already bid the routes, and they are undercutting us, by paying their drivers in AM/PM bucks.

This industry is a mess

nuss

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

Condolences to Lakes, I hear they are a great company, but this Bus stuff is freakin' hilarious....

 

[Cardinal]

I was in the meeting when Voss threw out the idea.

Ok, now you've got my interest peaked. What was the general feeling on the future? Namely, if the United codeshare is lost will Lakes say "screw it" and shut down? Or keep flying until every last borrowed drop of jet fuel is burnt? Or scale back dramatically under Frontier's code, all the while carrying the high debt load and miserable credit created by a much bigger airline? Not to pry, but I'm a bit up in the air here. Furloughed is one thing, but the potential to never be recalled is quite another. I just got settled out here, starting a new job, starting a new business as well, a gaze into the haziest of crystal balls would be fantastic.

Incidentally, GLA does serve Pueblo, unless some thing changed in the last few months.

 

[FranktheTank]

Skylane58,

Just curious, if you're in with Voss why don't you tell us what the hell is really going on up there. And if you and Voss are so tight, when did you have a meeting with him. What, are you management? And like Voss runs the show anymore, he's on the backburner. Haven't you heard there is a new sherrif in town up there. And if you're in like you are, and Lakes doesn't fly to Pueblo anymore, how come I dropped off a whopping two people last thursday? Come on man, who are you, our new bus driver?

 

[canadflyau]

***MY OPINION***

There is a reason that as a condition of the deal with Raytheon Voss had to go. There are reasons why Lakes floundered around in the Red, and Voss went from house to house, car raced, and was not sweating Lakes for even one moment.

When he started this thing and it took off, he very quickly learned a lesson.. Where the money is in aviation, and it is not flying airplanes or selling seats. He became very good at getting awarded the EAS contracts to guarantee Lakes a revenue stream. Unfortunately the revenue stream runs dry as all the bills are paid. As a good businessman he saw a huge opportunity. He saw how he could use Lakes as a great way to make money.. lets follow the dollars. Very quickly, where he could, he got in the Aviation fuel business where we provided service awarded himself the fuel contract for Lakes, so for a hefty fee we buy our jet fuel. Then came Lakes Printing, the sole printing company used by Great Lakes Airlines, again for a hefty fee we get all our manuals and company materials printed for us. It doesn't end there, but you get the idea. His goal very quickly shifted from running a succesful airline, to running very succesful side shows that he can assure Lakes was purchasing own his services/products. So, now I hear mention of a bus transit and I wouldn't be surprised. Lakes would probably pay the Voss bus company more to drive the empty bus than to fly the 1900. Gotta give the guy credit! He wasn't crazy when he told UAL "thanks for the offer to finance jets that we operate, but NO." He already had things just right! Keep the company floundering in the red, but keep it alive (it all helps get $$ from big brother.) You have Raytheon (and other creditors) politicng on our behalf in Washington, so they can get paid. But Voss made sure we kept in check with our fuel bills, printing costs, and the other parts of the supporting ops he owned.

I would gather that any idea of a bus run has been parked as of late. Like another posted, there is a new sheriff in town, and he has Raytheon breathing down his neck.