Great Lakes Lost UA Codeshare

[wooferdog]

How in the heck can they continue?

 

[inthepool]

They haven't lost it yet, UAL has asked the court permission to dump Lakes. It's probably a foregone conclusion, but I guess we'll find out...

 

[Alaskaairlines]

My buddy, who flies for GLA tells me that there in such a state that he doesn't know what will happen tommorrow.

They may just go under, hopefully they are able to win the court case, otherwise that will put 280 or so pilots on the street.

 

[General Lee]

I believe the only BE1900 flights GL does for United are a couple from Chicago and a couple flights from MSP. I believe the DEN operation is stand alone. I would be nervous too in today's environment.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Cardinal]

Well fook. The last time I checked about 50% of Lakes' passenger revenue is tied to United. The other 50% is mixed between sales from F9 and the ZK code. Then EAS money throws in about a dollar for every three that the passenger paid.

ORD is no more, it's not a factor. MSP is very quiet, but exclusively UA codeshare. Every Denver city, like 33 of them, carries both the UA and F9 code. Without the UA code that portion of the traffic wouldn't vanish entirely, but would be severely impacted. It's just a matter of whether the passenger in Bumfuk, Nebraksa cares enough to buy an interline, check in twice, painfully priced, separate ticket. My wild ass guess is that 70% of the formerly United traffic would be frightened away. Our pax are always threatening to drive anyway. Telluride, Pierre, Casper, and Williston-Dickinson are great routes that could probably still be justified. But Scottsbluff and the several dozen other useless cities Lakes serves, I dunno. The annual report filed in March and the latest 10Q were full of sketchy phrases, "it is uncertain whether the company can meet obligations," and "without securing additional financing, the world will end," etc., etc.

Hey Lakers, I assume that the June 1st furloughs did take place. Any more scheduled that those of us on the street may not have heard about? This would be apart from any impending cotastrophe.

 

[Rottweiller]

From what I understand GLA lost the MSP stuff and will finish in the next month or so. MESA got the EAS out of MSP to the Dakotas.

 

[Cornelius]

Can somebody paste a link to where they got the UAL press release about dumping the Lakes codeshare.

Cardinal, I've been flying with some fos who were supposed to be furloughed last month and June 1st but they were recalled before they got the furlough letter. My guess is we have around 15 guys on the street.

PS, this industry sucks!

 

[tk855]

Hey Rottweiler,

I thought Mesaba got the EAS routes out of MSP to the Dakotas, or at least ND. Did I read it wrong??

tk

 

[Ben Dover]

I've heard it said that after the nuclear holocaust the two things that will remain are cock roaches and Great Lakes

 

[embdrvr]

I've heard it said that after the nuclear holocaust the two things that will remain are cock roaches and Great Lakes

Is there much difference between GLA management and cockroaches?

 

[Homer Jay]

To set the record straight...

DEN was all UA, F9, or it's own ticket stock (ZK)
MSP was on it's own (ZK)
ORD was all UA and has been closed as of earlier this year

I flew in MSP after ORD shut down and I know that MESA was bidding on the South Dakota stuff into Omaha and that Mesaba was bidding on the North Dakota stuff. It'll be too bad if Great Lakes loses the UA codeshare...A LOT of good people and great friends will be on the street...


ONCE A LAKER, ALWAYS A LAKER

 

[Andy Neill]

Cornelius said:

Can somebody paste a link to where they got the UAL press release about dumping the Lakes codeshare.

http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/030610/1045000862_1.html

 

[mesaba2425]

I think Mesaba got the JMS & DVL route out of MSP.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

You know, I was going to say something but I forgot what it was after I saw Rottweiller's post ;-)

 

[ndpilot701]

Yes it's true in JMS

Hi all,

Yes it's true about Lakes losing JMS and DVL out of MSP. Mesaba was the low bidder. The guy who owns the FBO I'm starving at is on the airport authority board. According to him Mesaba will take over the route starting Sept 1 or Oct 1, depending on how things work out.

Sure hope things in this industry straighten out soon. Getting too old (45, yikes!) to be spending most of my time sitting in the right seat of a Cherokee.

Regards,
Scott
KJMS

 

[flap operator]

Interesting how Mesaba was the low bidder in this. According to our management it is hard to compete with our cost structure. The big quesiton is that was this Mesaba AIRLINES or Mesaba HOLDINGS (Big Sky) that won this EAS contract. If it was AIRLINES I guess we can look for a NW press release soon regarding this new service... since AIRLINES can only grow within the NW system.


FO

 

[ndpilot701]

From what I was told, this is basically a NWA operation. The JMS/DVL airport managers/board members (including my employer), and ND Aeronautics Commission Reps went to MSP last week for a meeting with Mesaba/NWA regarding schedules, fuelings, overnights, etc...basically each airport representative was there to get the best for their airport.

As the events were related by boss to me, the NWA guy was running the show. He was the decision maker.

The upshot is that NWA is going to do what is best for NWA. JMS will be down to 2 flights per day (from 6 with GLA). A Saab 340 will be coming in at 1200 and 1700. That will make it tough for the business traveler. However, I'm hoping that our charter will pick up due to that very fact.

Also hoping the owner will go multi-pilot and put me on the certificate...but not holding my breath.

Regards,
Scott
KJMS

 

[Alaskaairlines]

Yeah, a buddy of mine over at Lakes was suppossed to be furloughed a month ago, then it got postponed, and now he's still on the line. Hopefully the rest of you guys can get back on-line soon!

 

[flyhard]

Have to agree with Ben Dover on this one. Yes the UA codeshare would be a blow to GL, but they would just reduce and keep on trucking. I hope the best for all the GL people. I enjoyed my time there. As far as shutting down, I think I heard that about 1095 times in my three years there, you get used to it.


ONCE A LAKER ALWAYS A LAKER

 

[hawkowl88]

I heard a rumor that UAL was planning to replace the GLA codeshare with UEX flying with either Air Whiskey, or SKYW. Anybody else hear anything similar?

 

[wooferdog]

All I really know is that Mesa will be flying 10 Dash 8's out of DEN soon. Air Whiskey is returning their 328s.

I heard somewhere that Mesa is going to operate 1900s out of DEN under a UA codeshare.

If Lakes can't make the 1900 work, what makes Mesa think they can. Heck, Lakes even has Raytheon behind them, don't they?

 

[skywestdrvr]

SkyWest is doing Casper overnights in July. I just showed up in the bid packages today. That is the first I've heard.

 

[canadflyau]

We have known we were losing Casper and 3 other cities at least a month ago.. For example, Lakes ran a mix of 1900's and Emb120's on the route, I think 5 flights a day. The avg load was about 19 people (on the Emb), and approx 50% of those folks were UAL code share.. I am not sure how many Embs SkyWest is going to run, but it is going to cost United more to run two cost plus flights a day, than to pay for their individual pax.

Our code with Frontier is up 700% from 1 month ago. Quite frankly our loads have been really good here lately, I haven't seen the terminal area packed like this in ages. We have really turned around: 98-99% complete, and 90% on-time. We have been bringing back furloughs... So it makes it difficult to comprehend Lakes demise.

Also it is interesting to note that GLA is still a creditor of United... They still owe GLA $$

 

[skywestdrvr]

What were the 3 other cities?

 

[stillaboo]

If Lakes can't make the 1900 work, what makes Mesa think they can. Heck, Lakes even has Raytheon behind them, don't they?

Mesa is quite interested in the DEN 1900 routes of 'Lakes. JO has indicated before that Mesa can break even on the 1900 with EAS, but not w/o it.

Regarding 'Lakes possibly losing the UA codeshare and YV in DEN, here's the latest from Orenstein himself: "The GLUX implications could be significant for us - particularly on the EAS markets in DEN. "

-Boo!

 

[wooferdog]

. . . And it gets even more interesting.

I just found out that Dick Fontaine wants to start an operation. Look like mainly cities (towns?) in Wyoming to Denver with...get this...Dash 8s!!!

http://www.trib.com/AP/wire_detail.php?wire_num=203409

Dash 8's from podunk Wyoming to DEN? UNREAL! Is he THAT mad at Voss?

Remember, Dick Fontaine before he dicks you!!

 

[FranktheTank]

Seriously, I can't believe they want to run the Dash in WY. Rock Springs, Cody, maybe in the summer, Laramie, Riverton, hey why not Worland too. No way. Too expensice and not enough peeps up in those parts to make $ on a 37 seater, unless of course they hire Freedom pilots. Anyway, its too bad about Lakes. No matter what anyone says, what a kick a$$ place to work. Great pilots, and nothing beats flying into TEX. You can't put anything but a 1900 on most of those markets, and it would be sad to see someone else doin it.

 

[canadflyau]

"The GLUX implications could be significant for us - particularly on the EAS markets in DEN. "

Does JO think that UAL controls who gets the EAS cities? Even if UAL drops Lakes, Lakes still has the EAS contracts..

I would say that if JO's business plan is based on the failure of any other airlines, that is a terrible plan. He should stick to the things he can control. Being poised to pick up the pieces is one thing, but banking on a failure is another.. Maybe he has a crystal ball

 

[stillaboo]

Does JO think that UAL controls who gets the EAS cities?

No, but, w/o a codeshare, many EAS markets would be interested in an EAS operator who had the codeshare that their EAS used to have, and JO knows that fo' sure!

I think Lakes is going to get a quick lesson is how persuasive JO can be. I 'pity the fool' who underestimates JO.

-Boo!

 

[canadflyau]

many EAS markets would be interested in an EAS operator who had the codeshare that their EAS used to have

Maybe true, but unfortunately that is not a condition for who gets awarded the EAS contracts by the Fed gov... but one thing that is, Completion. Lakes new CEO knows that, and MESA's completeion performance has been sub-par... like I said, I think JO should not be betting on which horse may or may not fail, and keep shaping up the ops he has.. Frontier is not a happy customer right now, and that is one thing that is for sure..