Gray Skies

[canyonblue]

I'll give my view. Pilots that planned on age 60 going away are idiots. Pilots who planned that age 60 would stay forever are idiots.

 

[BoilerUP]

As a up-and-comer, I don't want the Age 60 rule to change either.

I know the last few years have been extremely tramautic for our profession, but if you've been topping out the pay scale for the last 5-10 years, you should have been smart enough financially to plan for survival after retirement, with or without your pension.

IMO, over 60 guys should leave the 121 world and retire to a boat or the golf course, or if they really still want to fly, take their knowledge and experience into corporate/135 aviation, education, or a 150 at the local airport.

 

[FLB717]

GL,
Telling everone that you have an opinion is less than new information, and yes I am a nerd, but my Demon-Jet friend, you are my role-model, thank you.

 

[semperfido]

As a up-and-comer

don't you know---- up-and-comers don't get a say

 

[bluesideup1]

Here is a link to the poll that came from the same article:http://www.forbes.com/work/2005/03/16/cx_js_0316polldujour.html?partner=yahoo&referrer=

 

[Dave Siegel]

Nor this AirTran pilot. It seems someone has been doing some lobbying on behalf of the airline pilots in our industry without asking the pilots what their opinion is. Some will definitely be in favor of the rule change (see 50+ yr. old pilots with 4 wives) The plight to Increase the retirement age is being fought by the vocal minority and claiming they are representing all of us. I hope the writer of this article will print a retraction to his statements because I, for one, don't want to be included in his broad generalizations.

LAZY!

 

[Dave Siegel]

This JetBlue pilot doesn't agree with the bill either. I've already called my Senator.

We all got into the game knowing the rules; you can't change midstream. I don't say that to be callous, especially to those folks that have had their career's devastated (I've been furloughed for three years myself). But I've always been the type to save for a rainy day, and I know if I lost my medical tomorrow, I'd land on my feet outside of aviation.

If Jet Blue pilots fly past 60, I heard their hair will start turning blue.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

I dont necessarily disagree with allowing pilots to stay past sixty -- and I understand why they WANT to since airline management changed the rules (regarding their retirement) in the middle of the game.

However...

There are still about 7000 furloughed pilots on the street. Extending age-60 will lengthen the amount of time they will REMAIN on furlough significantly.

That too is changing the rules in the middle of the game.

 

[mnboyev]

I think it comes down to money...Pure and simple.. No **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**t right ?

First thought is.. 'Thats BS man, I dont want to work past 60' ! All those gray haired dudes fought to get that legislation passed. Why in sam hell should we just throw away the gains that our predecessors worked for?

Second thought is.. Holy Crap ! I only have 20 yrs to go.. Punch in my DC and my 401 on the Oppenheimer calculater = Holy Crap ! I gotta work a bit longer to ensure that sailboat and cabin are paid for..
We do all right, but it is still a strech to cover kids college, IRA, and Max out the 401.. After health care, union dues, bla bla bla.. I get to go to the movies on date nite and can only afford a six pack of Ol Millwaukee. Not complaining, mind you ... but it seems like more should be left over.

Cant count on any pension.. what a bummer.. What happened in America. How come our parents all were able to have pensions and retire with the good life ? Just a simple question ? What changed in America ? Is it corporate greed or just pure competition ?

Our pilot group just hired a polling group to ask the Citris boys what they thought... I answered, grudgingly - Yes - I support extending the age 60 rule. It is unfortunate. Gotta work till I'm old. Thank goodness ol' hard working AirTran will be around. No BMW in my parking lot. Just trusty rusty... got to pay for the kids college.

 

[HalinTexas]

Front Office stole my retirement plans.

Maybe someone should start a Ganja cruise to Jamaica. Old rickety boat, painted up like a hippy beetle-bus, cruise to the islands playing Buffet, Bob Marley, and maybe Willie Nelson music. It would be once a year, for those pilots that just retired. Would have to get a new boat every year, because it would be sunk once we got there. Maybe Grand Cayman's with there protective banking laws. Ah just as well, I'll have to find work in a Wal Mart once I get there. Somebody changed the rules of the game after it started, and I probably won't have enough to retire on.

Two things happened to this world. One, there's a sense of entitlement in this country so profound, it's crippling us economically. No one wants to work and they want everything for next to nothing. Secondly, the third world ain't so "third" anymore. They're hungry for what we've got and will work for less than what we make to get it. It's still a pay raise in their country, just ask the Indian next time you call a "help desk."

 

[FlyGuppies]

Repeal age discrimination

Some issues are greater than one's self interests. I have read these posts for a while and am struck by the hint (to be kind) of selfishness abound. Discrimination based on age is no less deplorable and that of sex or skin color(s).

I am a 38 yr old SWA Capt. I have supported the Age 60 Repeal as an FO as I do now.

For those of you that want to retire at age 60, do it. How would that be different than retiring at age 55 with mandatory at age 60? Personally, I like the idea of working a bit longer at my peak earnings level and taking some great vacations or buying that new toy instead of finding a part-time job in retirement with poor wages and no benefits to bridge me to the soon-to-be-gone-as-we-know-it SocSec system.

I understand companies may desire to change benefit parameters to reflect any changes in the law that suits their interests. How is that different than defaulting on your defined benefit plans and giving them wholesale to the PBGC?

I don't pretend to have many answers (any of which are popular) to this problem. Having parents that have worked their tails off well into their sixties I can't escape the notion that I have it easy.

There are no guarantees in life and there is certainly no god given right to retire at age 60.

 

[semperfido]

it IS going to change....

 

[80drvr]

Some issues are greater than one's self interests. I have read these posts for a while and am struck by the hint (to be kind) of selfishness abound. Discrimination based on age is no less deplorable and that of sex or skin color(s).

I am a 38 yr old SWA Capt. I have supported the Age 60 Repeal as an FO as I do now.

For those of you that want to retire at age 60, do it. How would that be different than retiring at age 55 with mandatory at age 60? Personally, I like the idea of working a bit longer at my peak earnings level and taking some great vacations or buying that new toy instead of finding a part-time job in retirement with poor wages and no benefits to bridge me to the soon-to-be-gone-as-we-know-it SocSec system.

I understand companies may desire to change benefit parameters to reflect any changes in the law that suits their interests. How is that different than defaulting on your defined benefit plans and giving them wholesale to the PBGC?

I don't pretend to have many answers (any of which are popular) to this problem. Having parents that have worked their tails off well into their sixties I can't escape the notion that I have it easy.

There are no guarantees in life and there is certainly no god given right to retire at age 60.

Do you support those over 60 being allowed to come back?

 

[-9Capt]

For those of you that want to retire at age 60, do it.

Mr. Guppies,
Work till 65 and you can kiss our retirement plans goodbye. It will become impossible to keep the current A/B funds if we are allowed to work to social security benefit age. Personally I like the extra $15,400 AirTran deposited in my Oppenheimer account last year.

That's the main reason I'm against it.

 

[FoxHunter]

Mr. Guppies,
Work till 65 and you can kiss our retirement plans goodbye. It will become impossible to keep the current A/B funds if we are allowed to work to social security benefit age. Personally I like the extra $15,400 AirTran deposited in my Oppenheimer account last year.

That's the main reason I'm against it.

Urban Myth

 

[Purpledog]

For those of you that want to retire at age 60, do it. How would that be different than retiring at age 55 with mandatory at age 60? Personally, I like the idea of working a bit longer at my peak earnings level and taking some great vacations or buying that new toy instead of finding a part-time job in retirement with poor wages and no benefits to bridge me to the soon-to-be-gone-as-we-know-it SocSec system.

It would be different b/c we would be forced to take a huge hit on our retirement plans if we wanted to leave early, as we are now if we want to leave before 60. Oh wait you don't have a A/B retirement plan, hence your motive. If you want to fly 10 legs a day until you keel over, knock yourself out, just not in 121. I don't mean to make this a have/have not discussion, however, this whole thing is driven by selfish people who think they need more than they do or are living outside their means. If you are a SWA Capt at 38, you should easily be able to retire comfortably at 60 hands down. If not you need to sell the big house/nice car/boat and go live like the paid labor we are.
The only people that have a dog in this fight are the guys forced to start over at 50+. These are the same ones that would have punched a LCC whipper-snapper in the nose 5 years ago if he suggested that he had to work into the golden years. Sorry senior pilots, that's the way the ball bounces and I agree you can't change the rules midstream to suit your ill planning and misfortune. I feel sorry for those, but not sorry enough to ruin the collective lives of most of my peers.
Once again this is an unstable industry. Plan as if you won't have any retirement at 60 and you won't be surprised. My company should have the best chance of paying me a pension but I'd be a fool to count on it.

Take the ALPA poll and voice your opposition to amending the 60 rule!

 

[semperfido]

"I don't mean to make this a have/have not discussion, however, this whole thing is driven by selfish people who think they need more than they do or are living outside their means."


pdog: who made you the arbiter of what people need to live within their means? this aint no dress rehersal and if someone is fit to fly past 60 then who are you to question their motives? It is none of your business whether or not i have a bmw or a vw beetle. change is inevitable...external forces like Soc Sec, company retirement plans and industry economics change and so will the rules that we have lived by in the past.

it is NOT all about greed and selfishness. it IS about changing to adapt to changing environment. it isn't a static deal.

 

[FoxHunter]

Take the ALPA poll and voice your opposition to amending the 60 rule!

I really think you will find this time ALPA would really prefer not to take a position. It would be in their interest for Congress to pass the change so they don't piss those off nearing age 60 or those who have lost their pension like UAL and USAIR or if they support the change they will piss off junior guys.


"United ALPA Council Vote Results on Age 60"



"Resolutions calling for ALPA to change its National Policy on Age 60 have been passed at the following United ALPA Local Executive Councils:



SFO (March 3), LAX (March 16) and DCA (March 18). Votes are coming in April at the DEN and ORD Councils. This sends a clear signal to ALPA National that the pilots at United are ready for the change in National Policy on mandatory retirement at age 60."

 

[Purpledog]

pdog: who made you the arbiter of what people need to live within their means? this aint no dress rehersal and if someone is fit to fly past 60 then who are you to question their motives? It is none of your business whether or not i have a bmw or a vw beetle. change is inevitable...external forces like Soc Sec, company retirement plans and industry economics change and so will the rules that we have lived by in the past.

SemperMe,
Go buy a Ferrari for all I care, just don't expect me to support your poor decisions with my golden years.

 

[semperfido]

pdog---- not to worry---i'm not an airline pilot but i used to play one on tv