Grade-A b**tch FA's at AA

[Dornier 335]

The F/A's at AA are angels when compared with their gate agents....

From a personal experience I must say this is true. There's a reason they are being nicknamed "Eva" ...

 

[satpak77]

1. It was paid ticket

2. I re-affirm that attitude towards paying customers is a poor way to represent the company

3. They were major b**tches

 

[Giggity]

Vote with your feet.

 

[CA1900]

Vote with your feet.

I do. Whenever possible, I'll trade in my AA tickets home and buy one on Alaska or Southwest.

 

[imacdog]

...another ditto

......coming from another person who can't read.

 

[B727FA]

The real problem is the flight attendant position was never meant to be a full time career, just a temporary job like being a waiter. Unfortunately the politically correct types demanded an end to weight/age/fitness/etc. requirements and so forth, and now I wish all those soft boiled legal brains the bad service they deserve on which ever particular flight they happen to embark.

Again...WHO CARES what the job "used" to be? Again, WHY do YOU care? Why do pilots INSIST on pointing that out all the freakin' time? What's your point? It doesn't matter what it USED to be...it's what it is NOW.

Sociologically speaking MOST early "careers" for women were intended to be "temporary" until they "found a man" and dropped out of the labor pool. Even women who were nurses, teachers, secretaries have transitioned their jobs into careers; so why not FA's, too? (There are some pretty heavy/old/out of shape/etc nurses, teachers, secretaries...and dare I say pilots!?!?!?) Move on...

It's not a problem that FA's are making a career out of it. The REAL problem is that people who have no reason to judge WHY a person CHOOSES to be an FA (for life) shoots off their uninformed traps.

Answer the question: WHY do you care that people make a career out of being an FA?

Next.

 

[B727FA]

Do the multiplication....

Irrelevant. $ for $ you get more work out of your FA staffing than you do your pilot staffing. Careful: I'm not quantifying value of the job; that's usually what pilots do to belittle FA's. The jobs are vastly different...I get that. I'm saying you get more workers for the money...there's a difference.

 

[B727FA]

It's a job that can be done with a GED and a weeks worth of training. They are basically qualified to be a "Merry Maid" outside of AA.

I've got to hand it too them.
Just dem facts'

Is your GED working for you?

I'll put my BA, MDiv and MA up against your education any day pal. It may only REQUIRE a HS degree but many carriers are requiring much more...and you know that. Don't be thick.

Why do I do this job with so much education? I WANT to. You shouldn't care.

 

[B727FA]

why do they need GEDs? That seems like overkill for a job that involves opening cans of soda. . .

Tell you what Raoul, when you drive one in I'll leave you get yourself out. And no, I won't open a can of soda to pour on the fire that's on your a$$.

 

[B727FA]

Notice also that my problem is with certain members of that group who provide documented crappy service, yet have been paid near the top of the industry for over a decade.

Agreed.

Note that I also stated pure fact regarding skills and qualifications and that I have total respect for Merry Maids and many other entry level jobs,

But apparently not career FA's. Qualifications aren't skills.

If you're making a point of the minimum qualifications, your point is true. But it is simply NOT true that MOST people who possess the minimum qualifications for a job have the skills to do the job.

Think of it this way: a pilot is required to have their tickets and a Class A --(and contrary to popular belief, a 4 year degree is NOT required to "be" a pilot...You don't even "need" a GED; I dare say lots of us got our private ticket before we graduated from HS.) They may possess the minimum qualifications; but they likely, with "just" that, don't have the skills required to be successful in their career. Same thing for FA's.

If we're going to take this to the level of QUALIFICATIONS/SKILLS then company REQUIREMENTS has to be worked into the mix, too.

Fair enough?

And again...WHY do pilots care so much about why FA's choose this as a career? SOMEONE, please answer the question.

 

[Flopgut]

1. It was paid ticket

2. I re-affirm that attitude towards paying customers is a poor way to represent the company

3. They were major b**tches

If there are two levels of service available, why don't you pony up some money for the higher service level? Or why don't you charter a jet? IMHO, first class on my airline is a darn fine product. And we do treat those customers better. They pay more.

The harshest critique we get in the airline business is from corporate guys riding around on tickets somebody else is paying for.

Fill out a comment card, will ya? At my airline [CAL] that card has to be answered by a VP if you're a Onepass member. We're really trying to clean house on our worst customer service FA offenders. (most are pretty good) But seems that it's more fun to whine on FI. Maybe you're more interested in going back to the days when customers were allowed to beat the crap out of airline employees? Frankly, that seems to be what customers miss the most these days. Sad.

What i'd like to see happen? (not that you've asked) I'd like to see airlines stop selling tickets to ALL fractional and corporate pilots. I'd like to see how cost effective those things are when you can't use an airline ticket to get the help moved around to fly it. It's not like the customers in the back of those things are going to stop traveling. I'd like to re-acquaint them with the airline.

 

[wrxpilot]

If there are two levels of service available, why don't you pony up some money for the higher service level? Or why don't you charter a jet? IMHO, first class on my airline is a darn fine product. And we do treat those customers better. They pay more.

You shouldn't have to buy a first class ticket to be treated with mutual respect. Just because I travel on coach DOES NOT mean I expect to be treated like crap. That is ridiculous.

The harshest critique we get in the airline business is from corporate guys riding around on tickets somebody else is paying for.

I highly doubt that. Most of us corporate guys understand that things happen, and we do know that most US airline employees are treated like crap. Honestly, I feel pretty bad for a lot of them and go out of my way to thank everybody on the way out (both cabin crew and pilots). More importantly, the number of us corp/frac pilots traveling on revenue tickets is nothing but a small fraction of the tickets sold. There's absolutely NO WAY we could be the ones doing most of the complaining. I'd say it's most likely the Orbitz crowd that is your biggest critic... They want champagne service for peanuts.

Fill out a comment card, will ya? At my airline [CAL] that card has to be answered by a VP if you're a Onepass member. We're really trying to clean house on our worst customer service FA offenders. (most are pretty good) But seems that it's more fun to whine on FI. Maybe you're more interested in going back to the days when customers were allowed to beat the crap out of airline employees? Frankly, that seems to be what customers miss the most these days. Sad.

Nobody here has suggested that have they?

What i'd like to see happen? (not that you've asked) I'd like to see airlines stop selling tickets to ALL fractional and corporate pilots. I'd like to see how cost effective those things are when you can't use an airline ticket to get the help moved around to fly it. It's not like the customers in the back of those things are going to stop traveling. I'd like to re-acquaint them with the airline.

Ah, yes that would certainly be a brilliant move. Stop selling tickets to some of your best paying customers - brilliant! When we travel, it's usually at the last minute and we pay whatever we gotta pay to be there. Trust me, your airline would MUCH rather have me than an Orbitz traveler.

Your bias is quite clear now... I bet I know where you stand on the subject of user fees as well.

 

[NEDude]

The airlines learned long ago that the exact opposite is true.

Which explains why the airlines are so "successful"...

 

[satpak77]

If there are two levels of service available, why don't you pony up some money for the higher service level? Or why don't you charter a jet? IMHO, first class on my airline is a darn fine product. And we do treat those customers better. They pay more.

The harshest critique we get in the airline business is from corporate guys riding around on tickets somebody else is paying for.

Fill out a comment card, will ya? At my airline [CAL] that card has to be answered by a VP if you're a Onepass member. We're really trying to clean house on our worst customer service FA offenders. (most are pretty good) But seems that it's more fun to whine on FI. Maybe you're more interested in going back to the days when customers were allowed to beat the crap out of airline employees? Frankly, that seems to be what customers miss the most these days. Sad.

What i'd like to see happen? (not that you've asked) I'd like to see airlines stop selling tickets to ALL fractional and corporate pilots. I'd like to see how cost effective those things are when you can't use an airline ticket to get the help moved around to fly it. It's not like the customers in the back of those things are going to stop traveling. I'd like to re-acquaint them with the airline.

another airline employee who doesn't "get it"

 

[NoJoy]

Just flew AA a few days ago, MD-80, DFW to MMMX. Superb, grade-A, b**tches as FA's on that flight.

WTF is wrong with your FA program. The pax are the reason the company is afloat, and the FA is the primary face of the company.

Were you in uniform? I find that sometimes when I am in uniform, the FAs think I am "jump seating" and treat me accordingly. They may not know that my ticket was paid for and sometimes costing over $500.00 one way. My first experience out of JFK on jetBlue was not the "blue berry merry" experience I was hoping for. I introduced myself to the first FA like I always do by saying hi and my first name. I did not get much of a responce back. I always let the FA know that I can help them out if they need someone, and thank them for the flight. Most of the time it is a good experience.
So far Southwest and Alaska are tops as far as customer service in the back.

 

[OPECJet]

Every time I've been in the back of an AA or Eagle flight it has been in uniform and always a satisfactory experience.

The FA's have ranged from indifferent to down right pleasant and accommodating. I've watched one who read the paper the entire way to DFW while sitting in an empty FC cabin, and more than one who told me "that's where you'll be sitting, sir" while pointing to a seat up front. All, including the first, were professional and cordial.

I would suggest one of three possible causes in your case. 1: Your flight crew had a bad day. 2: You're stirring the pot. 3: You were a ****************************** and got treated accordingly. Please note you don't actually have to BE one to be treated like one as body language (which could have stemmed from having a bad day yourself) can set off an attitude in people different from what they would normally present. A "pre-defense" mechanism if you will.

 

[Kalifornia]

Again...WHO CARES what the job "used" to be? Again, WHY do YOU care? Why do pilots INSIST on pointing that out all the freakin' time? What's your point? It doesn't matter what it USED to be...it's what it is NOW.

Sociologically speaking MOST early "careers" for women were intended to be "temporary" until they "found a man" and dropped out of the labor pool. Even women who were nurses, teachers, secretaries have transitioned their jobs into careers; so why not FA's, too? (There are some pretty heavy/old/out of shape/etc nurses, teachers, secretaries...and dare I say pilots!?!?!?) Move on...

It's not a problem that FA's are making a career out of it. The REAL problem is that people who have no reason to judge WHY a person CHOOSES to be an FA (for life) shoots off their uninformed traps.

Answer the question: WHY do you care that people make a career out of being an FA?

Next.

Ok, I get it; you're an FA and you're on the major defensive. A rapid succession of emotional posts; writing certain words in all capital letters is not helping your cause. The continued extra reality TV like drama is what leads to emotional highs and lows. Maybe you're the exception, and the string or replies is just online personality.

Why do pilots care? Because we see example after example, day in and day out of FAs that have around for ever that should not be in the direct customer service position of FA. The built up bad emotions create bad passenger service. If it makes you feel any better, it's the same story with gate agents. The Steve Slator incident is not surprising.

 

[B727FA]

K--Yes, I am an FA. I've been flying 17 years and have files filled with commendations. I've never been called on the carpet by mgt...seriously. I DO get defensive when I am (as a work group) demeaned and generally lumped in with the others--and told time and time again, "you were never supposed to do this job forever."

I am an exception. One capt the other day said to me, "You must be new, you're still nice." I asked him how long he'd been flying. "11 years," he said. I told him, not snarky, but, "I've got six years on you and I'm still not bitter."

It's not the pax alone who cause crews to be nasty...often it's the fact that we don't even get support from our pilots b/c, after all, we were never supposed to be here this long.

As for the all CAPS in some posts...I was using my phone and was having trouble formatting the text for emphasis...but I can see that would look over the top.

I'm truly not wanting this to be a pilot/FA thing. It's worth noting, however, that there are more than enough pilots who have no business being in the FD, too...or working pax flights. Believe it or not you guys/gals aren't above reproach...but as a group you have your share of doozies out there.

If you're so concerned, day in and day out as you say, then go to ProStan, take them aside and coach them, speak to the lead, finally, if that doesn't work, write 'em up! But, if it's truly, day in and day out...if it's really that bad, do something then and there; at work. Don't just stir the pot at FI.

I don't owe you an explanation as to why I've made it my career. Nor do you (or anyone else) have the right to judge it. I really wish we'd get to fly together; you'd see this old battle axe work my magic. You know, Al Haynes and Sully were "old salts" and it when it hit the fan, it mattered; the same can be (and has been) true for us. Something to consider. I hope you will.

In the mean time, keep the dirty side down, the houses smaller on t/o and don't forget to ding me at 10k.

 

[Flopgut]

another airline employee who doesn't "get it"

I've done a whole bunch of the same flying your doing right now. And a whole lot of airline flying. I promise you I "get it". Fill out the comment card or contact customer service. If you're the frequent flyer/mega customer you think you are, it will mean something. I don't know about AA, but it means a lot at my airline.

You know, more often than you might guess, there is something going on during that particuliar flight that creates a problem. I had a trip to MMMX a few years ago and we had a medical problem in the back. Front half of the airplane thought they were getting snubbed by the FAs..... Had no idea there was a stroke going on in the back.... Something I've noticed about you small cabin airplane guys, you don't think about what else might be going on with the 150 other customers. It's just not something you deal with and you don't realize how many customers there are.

 

[aa73]

just give it a rest already folks... i have many corporate pilot friends who all "get it" and don't bitch about free rides... and there is always that 1% who think their schit doesn't stink and feel they are entitled to something when their free ride is not up to their expectations.

satpak.. one word for you. waaaaaaa...

 

[CA1900]

just give it a rest already folks... i have many corporate pilot friends who all "get it" and don't bitch about free rides... and there is always that 1% who think their schit doesn't stink and feel they are entitled to something when their free ride is not up to their expectations.

Do you treat all your business travelers on their "free rides" with such disdain, or only the ones who are pilots?

 

[FLYLOW22]

AA is horrible. I can't wait for jetBlue to go fo forward with STL hub plans.

 

[Flopgut]

Do you treat all your business travelers on their "free rides" with such disdain, or only the ones who are pilots?

No! Absolutely not. We treat our frequent flyers with the utmost respect. Thing is, with these corporate pilot types, they aren't going to ride on anybody they don't have to. It's whoever or whatever they have to do to get where the boss says "go". There's no loyalty, they could care less. And all they do is gripe, pick out the slightest thing and exaggerate it, so they can make the "royal barge" they fly around seem more essential. If Satpaks ride was that bad (bad enough for him to complain here), somebody needs a correction. If the FAs were bad, then let's jerk a knot in their tail and get it fixed. If there was some mitigating factor happening in the back then let's get Satpak up to speed.

There is a lot at stake here. Legacy pilots want scope clauses made stronger and our we want our regional flying back. Additionally, we also want our premium customers back. If we fix our lingering customer service issues and can get the wealthy traveler to take another look, I think we can get a lot of them back.....

Let me say something about corporate pilots: 20% are excellent operations and no airline will ever replace them. However, 80% of them are, well, let's just say they are average and I want the business back.....

 

[FLYLOW22]

No! Absolutely not. We treat our frequent flyers with the utmost respect. Thing is, with these corporate pilot types, they aren't going to ride on anybody they don't have to. It's whoever or whatever they have to do to get where the boss says "go". There's no loyalty, they could care less. And all they do is gripe, pick out the slightest thing and exaggerate it, so they can make the "royal barge" they fly around seem more essential. If Satpaks ride was that bad (bad enough for him to complain here), somebody needs a correction. If the FAs were bad, then let's jerk a knot in their tail and get it fixed. If there was some mitigating factor happening in the back then let's get Satpak up to speed.

There is a lot at stake here. Legacy pilots want scope clauses made stronger and our we want our regional flying back. Additionally, we also want our premium customers back. If we fix our lingering customer service issues and can get the wealthy traveler to take another look, I think we can get a lot of them back.....

Let me say something about corporate pilots: 20% are excellent operations and no airline will ever replace them. However, 80% of them are, well, let's just say they are average and I want the business back.....

Hey Flop... many of us ARE elite status on several carriers.

What makes us different than other business flyers is that flying IS our business. The lame excuses and attitude just don't "fly" with us. Bad service is bad service and our full Y fare ticket is just as valuable out of your hub as a guy working for 3M.

As far as your 20%/80% point.... I think 100% of our customers disagree. Sorry... driving up to YOUR jet in YOUR car to fly with YOUR pilots with no TSA poking around or loud PAs being made sounds better to me. Or maybe those smiles on the faces of happy private jet owners I've seen for a decade now is botox? I dunno...

Let's be real... those than can... do fly on us. The rest want to. 121 needs to focus on the people who have no choice but to fly on airlines... like me.

P.S. I hope you get ALL the regional flying back It never should have left the legacy carriers and it would greatly simplify the whipsaw leverage management has.

 

[Flopgut]

Hey Flop... many of us ARE elite status on several carriers.

What makes us different than other business flyers is that flying IS our business. The lame excuses and attitude just don't "fly" with us. Bad service is bad service and our full Y fare ticket is just as valuable out of your hub as a guy working for 3M.

As far as your 20%/80% point.... I think 100% of our customers disagree. Sorry... driving up to YOUR jet in YOUR car to fly with YOUR pilots with no TSA poking around or loud PAs being made sounds better to me. Or maybe those smiles on the faces of happy private jet owners I've seen for a decade now is botox? I dunno...

Let's be real... those than can... do fly on us. The rest want to. 121 needs to focus on the people who have no choice but to fly on airlines... like me.

P.S. I hope you get ALL the regional flying back It never should have left the legacy carriers and it would greatly simplify the whipsaw leverage management has.

I appreciate the agreement on the regional flying. And I understand there is a lot on the line here for both sides. Here's the deal as I see it as someone who's done it from both sides: The small jet is extremely expensive. And when the help who's job is to fly the small jet starts acting like they are too important to ride on the airline it's really going to grate on the owner writing the checks. Seriously, we still fly a lot of customers with a lot of money. And frankly, somehow they are more durable and tolerant than their employees. I think when they get the bill, they realize it's a decent trade off.

 

[ozpilot]

It's not like the customers in the back of those things are going to stop traveling. I'd like to re-acquaint them with the airline.

Its because they are acquainted with the airlines that they choose to fly with the fractionals.

 

[CA1900]

... when the help who's job is to fly the small jet starts acting like they are too important to ride on the airline...

I think you're misunderstanding us. We're talking about the erosion of basic service and common courtesy that used to be provided to all airline passengers -- even the ones in coach.

I'm talking about the bitch on my AA flight out of Dallas a few weeks ago who said to me, after I sprinted across three concourses to make my connection because Eagle was late, "Oh, you're what's holding us up?" as she rolled her eyes.

I'm talking about US Airways canceling my flight earlier this year, and instead of helping me rebook, the ticket agent hands me a card with a call center phone number on it. "I can't help you" is all he said as he walked away.

I'm talking about standing in front of a baggage carousel for forty-five minutes before the first bag came off from my United flight two weeks ago -- over an hour from block-in. (Alaska, on the other hand, has a guarantee that you'll have your bag in hand within 20 minutes of block-in. My time has value to me, and I send my business to the carrier that respects that.)


I don't think any of us are asking for private-jet-level service, but simply common courtesy and a good customer service attitude. If you haven't seen that disappearing at the airlines over the past decade, you haven't been paying attention.

A lot of us were in the airline business for a number of years, so we've seen both "sides" of the industry. We're understanding with things that are normal and reasonable (mechanical issues, crew rest, etc.), but not very tolerant when we know we're being BS'ed. I see both on the road.

Thing is, with these corporate pilot types, they aren't going to ride on anybody they don't have to. It's whoever or whatever they have to do to get where the boss says "go". There's no loyalty, they could care less.

Not really accurate. A friend of mine flies for a large corporation, and gets a budget for a hotel, an airline flight, or whatever. As long as he's within his budget, he can choose the provider as he sees fit.

As a fractional guy, my company offers the same things when it comes to my airline flights home. They find a ticket and book it, but I'm free to cancel it and rebook it on somebody else. And I assure you, if my ticket is on United, US Airways, or Continental and another airline serves the route, that's exactly what I do. Alaska, Delta, and Southwest do a far, far better job from a customer service standpoint, and I take my business to them whenever I can, both for work and for my personal trips.

 

[satpak77]

I am AA Platinum for what it is worth. Company pays the ticket (as if that matters, me versus the company, the FA's don't know) and I keep the points.

Yes, the FA's were grade-A full-on b**tches. AA's attitude towards PAX blows.

Yes, you are right, "us" corporate guys are more attuned to taking care of PAX versus the cattle car (Greyhound bus) approach of 150 PAX.

Thanks for pointing that out....again (have I said this before?) the airlines have gone downhill and its just a bus service at this point.

(hey, just one of your 150 pax making an observation)

 

[aa73]

Do you treat all your business travelers on their "free rides" with such disdain, or only the ones who are pilots?

Only the self-righteous jerks who think they are entitled to everything. And that goes for pax, pilots, jumpseaters, and yes, even working F/As who display the same attitude.

 

[Flopgut]

I get what you guys are saying. I think you are missing my point. Think of the airplane with two cabin classes as two different airplanes. Back of the airplane is what it is. In more cases than you are giving us credit, it's a necessity. There are things that grate on travelers back there but that's just because people are crazy.

Front of the plane is more like what you guys are doing. More people are buying those seats, not just upgrading. I think the people cutting the checks on your bizjet understand it, but guys like you don't. They know because they understand sometimes it's more about what you get than what you pay. Customer buys a Gulfstream they know it's going to be demonstratively superior to a Piper Lance. You guys aren't actually writing these checks. There's a disconnect. You want to see better service? Upgrade. Pay more. If you don't understand it maybe your boss could go over it with you?