Grade-A b**tch FA's at AA

[Flopgut]

Hey Satpak: What airplane was it? Were they doing hot meals thru out the cabin? And how many FAs were there? Do you remember?

 

[Flopgut]

I'm talking about standing in front of a baggage carousel for forty-five minutes before the first bag came off from my United flight two weeks ago -- over an hour from block-in. (Alaska, on the other hand, has a guarantee that you'll have your bag in hand within 20 minutes of block-in. My time has value to me, and I send my business to the carrier that respects that.)

If getting your bag promptly is something that is important to you, "first to carousel" is available on CAL. You've got to pay for it. We know you time has value. We're going to merchandise it.

Let's deal in an equal market, ok? You get paid a lot to provide an excellent level of service. What's wrong with us getting paid?

 

[CA1900]

If getting your bag promptly is something that is important to you, "first to carousel" is available on CAL.

You're missing my point. The first bag on that United flight hit the carousel over an hour from block-in. The last one hit about five minutes later.

I was Gold on Continental a few years back, and I received "VIP" baggage similar to what you're describing. If CAL will offer a reasonable time guarantee (like Alaska's 20 minutes from block-in), that's an upgraded product I'd be interested in. If it's just delivering my bag in 65 minutes instead of 70, it really isn't worth much to me.

Let's deal in an equal market, ok? You get paid a lot to provide an excellent level of service. What's wrong with us getting paid?

Not a thing. And I am talking about an equal market: airline service. This has nothing to do with a private flight, where the bags are loaded into the passenger's own car within minutes of arrival. I'm comparing airlines here, and trying to explain that some airlines are offering severely-degraded service, while others still provide good service. In the bag example, United charges $5 more than Alaska for a checked bag, yet delivered the bags 45 minutes later. I did pay more, yet got inferior service. That's my point.

 

[FLYLOW22]

I appreciate the agreement on the regional flying. And I understand there is a lot on the line here for both sides. Here's the deal as I see it as someone who's done it from both sides: The small jet is extremely expensive. And when the help who's job is to fly the small jet starts acting like they are too important to ride on the airline it's really going to grate on the owner writing the checks. Seriously, we still fly a lot of customers with a lot of money. And frankly, somehow they are more durable and tolerant than their employees. I think when they get the bill, they realize it's a decent trade off.

Flop,

Our Owners love flying on us. Period. They do it for many reasons, most considering airline flying nothing more than unrealistic and brutal. More importantly, no one forces them to fly on us... it's a choice. Many airline customers don't have that luxury, flying only the choices they have between city pairs.

Also, it's hard to imagine the money flying around in private airplanes so I will simply say that one person in a private jet is easily worth more than a full bus load of people in a 777. They can pay for it so they do out of choice.

It's just the way it is.

As to the "1st Class" and "Steerage Class" behind comment... I've flown "1st Class" on many airlines and none of them are worth the money domestic (international is nice). I never understood why 16 people want to get on the airplane 1st so that 140 more can parade by them while they avoid eye contact and carry on bags are rammed into their heads and shoulders while they try to enjoy a beverage.... IF there was time to even serve them a beverage before Zone 1-6 is called.

The seats are bigger in 1st Class... that's it. Usually the senior flight attendant hides in the back leaving the most junior up front (which may be a great thing considering the way some of them keep themselves these days). Experience and service wise, however, that's a joke.

Catering... don't get me started on the choice of chicken or fish vs.... anything you want to order, including lobster tails and caviar or Double Stuff Oreos with cold 2% milk.

Airlining is not what it used to be, or ever will be again. The business plan has focused on low end prices with high volume.

Individual needs and premium service have moved on. No biggee. More people can afford to fly airlines and that's cool. Strength in numbers and all.

I'm not trying to attack you brother but simply trying to point out that the differences between airline and private are universes apart... there's no flying coming back from private to airline unless the customer was a Bernie Madoff victim.

 

[ozpilot]

Our Owners love flying on us. Period. They do it for many reasons, most considering airline flying nothing more than unrealistic and brutal.

As I told an owner the other day "We airline, so you don't have to."

 

[say again]

As I told an owner the other day "We airline, so you don't have to."

That's a great quote for fracs to use.

 

[OurMoney1]

I jumpseat AA several times a year. I always carry a stack of lottery scratch off tickets and give them to the "A" for the crew. It has always served me well over the years. Its a simple gesture that plays on my gratitude for having a free seat. Give them something simple and you might just get yourself a smile.

 

[UpNDownGuy]

It's nice that you bring lottery tickets/M&M's/donuts/flowers, etc for the crew when you jumpseat. It's adorable. It's also completely irrelevant to this discussion. The guy bought a ticket, was treated like cr@p, and pilots here spring to the defense of the abuser. Unbelievable. You really think someone needs to pay more in order to not be abused by the FA's, or have their bags delivered in a timely manner?

I wonder why low cost carriers are doing so well...

 

[aa73]

The guy bought a ticket, was treated like cr@p, and pilots here spring to the defense of the abuser.

The guy's ticket WAS BOUGHT FOR BY HIS COMPANY, and proceeded to whine like my 3 year old because of some surly F/As during his free ride.

I'd boot his ass off and send him to SWA, they love people like him.

 

[CA1900]

The guy's ticket WAS BOUGHT FOR BY HIS COMPANY...

Just like the ticket of every other business traveler on that airplane. You know, business travelers -- the high-dollar fares that airlines so desperately need to make a profit.

Are you suggesting that only individuals on personal trips should be treated as valued customers?

... and proceeded to whine like my 3 year old because of some surly F/As during his free ride.

It's not a "free ride," no matter how you want to spin it.

And yeah, I'd rather ride on SWA. They actually appreciate my business.

 

[say again]

The guy's ticket WAS BOUGHT FOR BY HIS COMPANY, and proceeded to whine like my 3 year old because of some surly F/As during his free ride.

I'd boot his ass off and send him to SWA, they love people like him.

Who care's who bought the ticket?? The fact is that he is a paying customer and deserves the service of ANY customer on board. Your mentality is the reason airline customer service is the sh!ts (among other reasons).

BTW- SWA would actually welcome him aboard without the crappy attitudes of many at the majors.

Note- there are many pleasant people at the majors, so the above doesnt pertain to all people.

 

[ProFracPilot]

The guy's ticket WAS BOUGHT FOR BY HIS COMPANY, and proceeded to whine like my 3 year old because of some surly F/As during his free ride.

I'd boot his ass off and send him to SWA, they love people like him.

Bitter much? Obviously, you're NOT one of the AA professionals I had the pleasure to interact with a couple of weeks ago...wow.

Pilots for NJ, FltOps, Flex, etc are indeed some of the BEST business passengers you folks have. We are usually on a Y fare (or better) purchased on short notice. And I'll say that most of the crews welcome us aboard, much as they do their 'other' business passengers. But you, sir, just don't get it.

I hope your retirement comes soon.

 

[aa73]

Nope, just pointing out that if you are going to make a scene on board the aircraft over what YOU perceive as surly treatment, you're not going to last long on ANY airline. I've seen them and dealt with them. Believe me when I say the other pax applaud our decision to boot them off, because they are a pain in the a$$ to everyone around them. They feel they are entitled to the world and a half, and let everyone around them know it. I'm not saying that it should be an excuse for poor treatment from the F/As - in fact, I've been on flights where we've kicked off F/As for unprofessional behavior - but if you really have that much of an issue with bad service, bite your *************************ing tongue and deal with it when you get home - NOT on my airplane. And I'm sure Satpak was professional and didn't do anything like that, but he makes a big deal out of surly service that exists at EVERY airline. Perhaps his F/As were having a bad day.. what a shocker, stop the presses! I've been on flights from EVERY AIRLINE that had F/As like that. And to sit here and have a hissy fit over a random flight just because HE wasn't happy - on a FREE RIDE - is just dumb.

p.s. I'd like to point out that I, sir, happen to be one of those AA pilots that hang out at the gate until departure time making sure that we get all of our non revs and OALs on board, in light of the fact that our agents have a certain, ahem, reputation for closing the door on you guys. I also make sure you will be sitting in First Class if there is a seat open. It just so happens that I have somewhat low tolerance of passengers that take out their frustrations on our overworked, underpaid F/As if they don't get what THEY feel they deserve.

 

[C-150ETOPS]

It just so happens that I have somewhat low tolerance of passengers that take out their frustrations on our overworked, underpaid F/As if they don't get what THEY feel they deserve.

Let me guess. You're married to an overworked, underpaid FA.

That would be the same group that typically does 1 drink pass through the cabin? Get real. With their demographics, the International FA's are pushing $50 an hour to make one or two passes through coach at most. The F/C crews do provide the old style service, more work, but even then it's much less than 20 years ago. Had any fresh scrambled eggs lately?

Their pay is purely the result of their labor leverage. At AA, it sure as hell isn't based on customer service. I can't think of any job/career in the country that has basically zero skills, and a training program measured in days, that hasn't been decimated in terms of pay, benefits and retirement. I truly have alot of respect for their skills in obtaining so much with basically so little in skills. My hats off to them. We'd make twice as much if we followed their lead.

The original poster was a customer with a valid observation. Surely we both know that alot of customer service at AA is out of the FA's control, they're the closest punching bag, but there is 20% that treat everybody like crap, including you, and that's well above the critical mass to kill the travel perception for any airline.

 

[aa73]

It seems to me this discussion has branched off into a comparison of corporate vs airline passengers. There simply is no comparison - corporate passengers will always pay top dollar to fly the best maintained equipment in absolute luxury. The airline passenger pays rock bottom prices to get basic transportation. The problem is, there are too many airline passengers that expect corporate-style service - or even friendly service 100% of the time - and that's just not the case with most airlines. Yes most airline crews are professional and there will always be that percentage with an attitude, I've seen it everywhere. But I've also seen surly F/As at EVERY airline that can have a nasty attitude.

AA's problem, as I've said before, is that the employees were STOLEN from - employees that had families, kids, mortgages - and those very employees SACRIFICED millions of $$$ to SAVE their company - and that company has TAKEN those millions of $$$ and rewarded themselves handsomely, while blowing us off and blaming us for their losses. That may not be a reason to be surly to customers, but ask yourself honestly: Don't you think it would get to you from time to time?

Satpak.. all I can say is this: If you truly believe you were wronged on your flight, send an email to [email protected]. Coming on this board and complaining about bad service may feel good to you, but what does it accomplish?

I apologize if I came off too strongly. As you can see, it gets to me too every so often.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Nope, just pointing out that if you are going to make a scene on board the aircraft over what YOU perceive as surly treatment, you're not going to last long on ANY airline. I've seen them and dealt with them. Believe me when I say the other pax applaud our decision to boot them off, because they are a pain in the a$$ to everyone around them. They feel they are entitled to the world and a half, and let everyone around them know it. I'm not saying that it should be an excuse for poor treatment from the F/As - in fact, I've been on flights where we've kicked off F/As for unprofessional behavior - but if you really have that much of an issue with bad service, bite your *************************ing tongue and deal with it when you get home - NOT on my airplane. And I'm sure Satpak was professional and didn't do anything like that, but he makes a big deal out of surly service that exists at EVERY airline. Perhaps his F/As were having a bad day.. what a shocker, stop the presses! I've been on flights from EVERY AIRLINE that had F/As like that. And to sit here and have a hissy fit over a random flight just because HE wasn't happy - on a FREE RIDE - is just dumb.

p.s. I'd like to point out that I, sir, happen to be one of those AA pilots that hang out at the gate until departure time making sure that we get all of our non revs and OALs on board, in light of the fact that our agents have a certain, ahem, reputation for closing the door on you guys. I also make sure you will be sitting in First Class if there is a seat open. It just so happens that I have somewhat low tolerance of passengers that take out their frustrations on our overworked, underpaid F/As if they don't get what THEY feel they deserve.

I'd like to personally thank you for making our point for us. Please, continue...


Oh... and thank you for destroying our hub in St. Louis.

"The St. Louis hub will be a Crown Jewel in the AA system." ~Don Carty, 2/2001.

What? Is there something like 16 gates left and 1/2 of the Lambert St. Louis International (thank God for Air Canada) Airport boarded up. Some jewel.

 

[aa73]

Oh... and thank you for destroying our hub in St. Louis.

"The St. Louis hub will be a Crown Jewel in the AA system." ~Don Carty, 2/2001.

What? Is there something like 16 gates left and 1/2 of the Lambert St. Louis International (thank God for Air Canada) Airport boarded up. Some jewel.

Please send your displeasure to Mr Carty, along with my middle finger...

I do think it's funny you hold me responsible, though.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Please send your displeasure to Mr Carty, along with my middle finger...

I do think it's funny you hold me responsible, though.

I don't. I was just trying to get you going.

Dang.

 

[aa73]

Shack!

Peace...

 

[satpak77]

Paying pax, regardless of who effected the payment, are the reasons the airlines are in business. Just like cargo shippers keep UPS and FedEx in business.

Saying a "coach" passenger "can expect" less customer service is like saying when Grandpa ships a model train to his grandson, he can "somewhat expect" the box to be rough-handled, since he choose bargain basement cheap shipping, versus Intel, who ships 1000 chips a day and is a "corporate" customer.

I mean, come on people. Hot towels, hot meal, etc? No, we ain't getting that in coach. We all know that, thanks. But a general pleasant (uh, its your job by the way) demeanor towards paying coach customers is all we ask.

Note: all the flights are packed these days, this must be good for the industry....

Again, THE face of customer service is the FA, he/she is working the flight and, well, ahem, serves us. Literally.

Only in this case, she didn't. She dis-served us. And her (and for some of you, your...) company.

AA73, got the PM. Thanks

Sorry folks, i am right on this. The argument/discussion (?) was interesting, but I am in the right.