Goodnight Irene

[walkthasky]

What facts on NO ?

Then what facts can you present to me if there is a NO vote. If you ask me, there arent any facts with either vote. So if youre basing your vote on facts then i guess either vote is wrong. ALPA has speculated on either vote as well as mgmt. But they have stressed that a better situation will arise with a YES vote. And if your talking about FEAR, it would seem that a NO vote is in FEAR of a paycut. Either way a vote is based on speculation and hope. There are no guarantees with this TA, whichever way it goes.

So, can I assume that youre ashamed at the United pilot group for taking concessions. They have no guarantees. The only facts they have are that they may emerge from bankruptcy by cutting costs. I have respect for them for taking a cut of their own pay to try and save their jobs. Its sad that youre ashamed to be amongst us. Personally im sick of reading all the complaining and whining and constant bashing on each other in here. If youre ashamed then perhaps youre with the wrong group of people. I cant vote yet, but I trust the rest of the pilot group to make a good decision for me. The MEC already has, and I hope that we can all prosper from the right decision.

 

[Skull-One]

"PIC time will come" - you mean like at Eagle? I've got some friends there and I feel for them. So until my time comes, I will continue to drill at my unit - it makes life quite easy.

Good to hear that about Delta.

An excellent example. They sold out their livelihoods there for the promise of a flow through. Now, not only have they lost the flow through, but the poor guys and gals there have no quality of life to speak of in the interim (and no means of changing it for another ten years or so).

Thank you for bringing that up.

I, too, am happy about the DAL situation (if it holds or continues to improve). It would be nice for one major to avoid screwing its pilots somehow....

 

[PROFLYER]

Skull-One: You need to check your facts on the Eagle contract. While I don't work there, the story I've heard from everyone I know there is that all 4 Eagle carriers were being played against each other. A few of the divisions had agreed to a concessionary contract in exchange for RJ's. The others were being threatened with distinction. I'm not going to say what their pilot grous did was right or wrong, but I think you're being less than honest to say Eagle singed that POS just for the flow through.

46 Driver: Just a clarification-you can take ASA off the list of places that are growing. We stopped hiring in January, and most likely won't see any new hire classes until sometime in 04. Most of the Delta RJ growth is going to CMR and CHT, with SKW picking up some more routes here and there.

Here's to ACA pilots standing their ground! Lord knows the last thing we at ASA need is another concessionary contract to fight against.

 

[Skull-One]

It doesn't matter. If everyone takes a stand then there isn't anyone to take the jets to.

The point is not that Eagle guys are wimps or anything derogatory. The point is, WE ARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE FOR A LONG TIME. Trading lifestyle for the promise of a fast upgrade (or jets, or this, or that) is fool's gold. Eagle's plight is merely an example.

*tap* *tap* *tap*

"Is this thing on?"

 

[PROFLYER]

Skull- I agree with what you're saying. Unfortunately for all of us, there is always going to be a few groups that are not willing to take a stand. Good luck!

 

[Networ-King]

I hate to be the one to say this, but its a 100% chance that the Delta pilot group will take a pay cut. How much? Dunno, but they WILL take a paycut. I just hope we can get this bunch of managment losers out before they rob Delta of anymore funds. Just my .01 1/2 cents. Hope Im wrong.

 

[46Driver]

Proflyer,
Thanks for the clarification. One of my buds from ASA came over to the house and said the same thing.

Skull-one,
I believe JetBlue and a few others are hiring - or at least accepting resumes. The point being is that if you don't have the mins (i.e. PIC time) then you truly are not going anywhere for a while.

 

[Skull-One]

Proflyer,
Thanks for the clarification. One of my buds from ASA came over to the house and said the same thing.

Skull-one,
I believe JetBlue and a few others are hiring - or at least accepting resumes. The point being is that if you don't have the mins (i.e. PIC time) then you truly are not going anywhere for a while.

Yeah, and do you think they're going to hire one of us over the million furloughed guys with experience already on the street? Keep dreaming. What percentage of the pilots at ACA do you think will get hired by JetBlue in the next five years? What percentage won't? It is far more likely you will be among those that don't as opposed to those that do. So while you are waiting to move on you need to make a decent living.

Pilots are so short-sighted it embarasses me. Grab the PIC carrot and screw yourselves and everyone who follows you. That's brilliant. Not me. Regionals were a career before, they could become a career again. It is always better to be prepared for the worst case scenario. How pilots can do that in the cockpit and not outside it baffles me.

Attrition is on its way, but recent events have delayed it by probably five years. You'll have plenty of opportunity for PIC time when things cycle through again. In the meantime, go for QOL.

 

[46Driver]

Well, you never know until you apply. You might have friends to put in a good word, you might do something to set yourself apart from the pack, you might just get lucky. The point being: to stagnate as an F.O. is not productive: one should be looking either to move up or start a new career outside of aviation (I'm halfway through my first Master's Degree). Due to the Age 60 rule, waiting is not an option, especially if there is a 5 year delay as you surmise.

As for making a decent living: many of the reserve units can bring you $50k a year if you work it right, plus retirement points. To top it off, if you pick a reserve unit in your hometown, you are home everynight - quality of life is downright excellent. Factor in choosing to live in a tax free state (and low cost area to boot) and you can see that this was methodically planned out.

 

[Skull-One]

That's a big help to all your friends who aren't in Reserve units.

As for the Age 60 Rule, that will be gone in our career, guaranteed.

Let's focus on the problem. There is nothing wrong with being a career F/O if the QOL is there. But as long as people sell themselves short to grab the PIC carrot, being an F/O will always be a substandard way to live.


Might get hired. Might have a friend. Might might might might might. *MIGHT* be stuck in a Regional for a long time. In fact, highly likely. Therefore, make being an F/O sustainable. A lot of us will be stuck in the right seat for a long time to come. Making $30K a year to do so is just plain crazy.


EVERYONE IS STAGNATING. Only a VERY small percentage are moving. Grabbing the PIC carrot and taking a QOL/Pay hit to do so is foolish. The opportunity cost of doing so is enormous.


There is no guarantee you'll get the PIC time because you take the hit. But there is a guarantee that you'll take a hit if you vote yes.


"You might upgrade faster, but you *WILL* take a pay cut." Hmmmmm.......... Another *might.*