Good NJA Flight

[cgmason1]

I can't believe you guys even reply to this guy.

even if this was true-and some pilots were reading something-so what.

Fly Safe

Chuck

 

[NJAowner]

This board is amazing

What is amazing about this board is that I started a thread saying I had a few good flights.

I am glad to say I had a few flights this past week. I would say the crews' attitudes were back to normal -- very pleasant, courteous, etc. The only "attitude" was a positive one centered around good service. [From the original post]

And look where it has gone.

 

[Diesel]

Did you expect anything less?

 

[DO-82 driver]

Hey Dsptchr,

I wouldn't be too concerned with the pilot group right now. After all, you really cannot do anything about it, you're just along for the ride.

I had the lovely experience of visiting the Casino last week and talked to a number of different people from the SOC to wx to FM's to Travel and so on. People are not happy up there.....period. If I were you I'd be more concerned with what's happening in the little cubby holes and cubicles that surround you.

Not many happy people there in the Puzzle Palace......You certainly cannot blame the pilots for all the misery. Those guys up there are stabbing eachother in the back every chance they get. I have never seen soooooo much friction between so many different departments.

I wonder when management is going to address THAT issue.....unless they are the ones creating it...OH...just blame it all on the pilots.

 

[Fracster]

DO-82,

There is always a group who isn't affected by the back stabbing and aren't unhappy. Its long been a mainstay at NJA that some receive significantly better treatment than others. Its my suspiscion thats why he hasn't noticed.

And as it has been said so many times attitudes flow from the top. We have some of the worst upper management around. I truly do not believe things will change and these attitudes will ultimately affect the long term viability of NJA.

Once again, dsptch has it all wrong. Owners are not re-signing in large numbers. Service now is considerably different than it was a few years ago.

 

[Hogprint]

Fracster said:

Once again, dsptch has it all wrong. Owners are not re-signing in large numbers. Service now is considerably different than it was a few years ago.

I think you are right on the money Frac. A lot of us are getting feedback on the road with dissatisfied owners.

We flew an older couple a few days ago that relayed to us that they had owned their own plane before their Netjets experience. They said that the quality of the overall experience has flagged and that they would let their contract run out and were looking into getting their own plane again.

We are hearing A LOT of similar stories to this one. The underlying current seems to be one of two things:

1) bad owner relations with crew service, e.g., owner hears from owner service that plane is late and is given xxxx reason why. Then when plane lands owner finds out from crew that xxxx reason is 180 degrees out from what they were told. This has been the the biggest problem I've heard on the road.

2) Marquis...

Quote from Mcgoo in recurrent last week..." if we lose owners...we have 10 card holders ready to take their place. We can afford to lose some owners."

That just about sums it up in my opinion.

 

[DO-82 driver]

Fracster......you are sorrect. Service certainly has chaged....I was hired by Executive Jet....I now work for NetJets.....I wonder if this is how the Founding Fathers of this company would be please at the direction in whice we are headed?

 

[FLYLOW22]

As FLYFLOW22 correctly pointed out owner satisfaction surveys remain above 98%. This directly contradicts your statement that NJA is "forcing you to just do your job and nothing else". If this were true it would be reflected in the OS survey.

Point of order!! The survey shows a 98% positive opinion of NJA pilots and flight crew members. Not NJA.

Read what you want to into the surveys. Distort the figures like a true spin doctor does but the facts are the facts. Many pilots today are doing their jobs and only their descripted jobs as listed in the FOM; fly planes. The Owners are very happy with how the flight crews are flying the planes and interacting with them as people.

The Owners are NOT happy with the inconsistent information coming from OS regarding flight delays/cancellations coupled with the lack of performance from NJA when it comes to product delivery in a timely manner.

Hell, I know of one pilot who was powertool briefed yesterday to LIE to the Owner as to the reason of the delay since "we at NJA flight operations do not comment as to the reason for the delay (TO THE OWNER!!!). LIE to the owner... and the best guidance we can get from Boisture in his recurrent training meetings is that "it's not lying if there was no intenet". We fly for Enron with wings.

Could the cause of this lack of performance always have existed and come from the inefficient methods of scheduling, dispatch and maintenance practices NJA "management" enabled the employees in those respective departments with? (no fault of the employees necessarily but the tools those people had to work with).

Could it have been the pilots, who for many years chose to go above and beyond to problem solve those issues (regardless of the reason why) in the interests of "doing the right thing"?

Could it now be that many pilots just don't care if the problems exist after being lied to for years regarding a fantasy contract that "management" never intended on delivering anyway?

Labor continues to be NJA "managements" largest asset yet it is treated like it's the biggest liability.

 

[FLYLOW22]

If our owners were getting a Domino's pizza experience, you would already be out of a job.

Owners are currently getting a ride in a Ferrari with Domino's pizza customer service. How long till an Owner has to order a flight by using key prompts like #1 for a trip from NYC, #2 for transatlantic, #3 for a PBI flight? Will there be an option to super size?

 

[FLYLOW22]

Fracster......you are sorrect. Service certainly has chaged....I was hired by Executive Jet....I now work for NetJets.....I wonder if this is how the Founding Fathers of this company would be please at the direction in whice we are headed?

Who Santulli? He can step in anytime and "do the right thing".

 

[dsptchrnja]

Hey Dsptchr,

I wouldn't be too concerned with the pilot group right now. After all, you really cannot do anything about it, you're just along for the ride.

I had the lovely experience of visiting the Casino last week and talked to a number of different people from the SOC to wx to FM's to Travel and so on. People are not happy up there.....period. If I were you I'd be more concerned with what's happening in the little cubby holes and cubicles that surround you.

Not many happy people there in the Puzzle Palace......You certainly cannot blame the pilots for all the misery. Those guys up there are stabbing eachother in the back every chance they get. I have never seen soooooo much friction between so many different departments.

I wonder when management is going to address THAT issue.....unless they are the ones creating it...OH...just blame it all on the pilots.

The difference is we don't post all our gripes on the internet and trash talk other departments - including crewmembers/Ops (at least I know of no one doing this). We are either part of the problem or part of the solution.

I will respect NJAOwner's wishes and decline any further comment. I appreciate his good feedback from a very objective post.

 

[TIS]

It is my experience in this business that owners RARELY say what they are really thinking about doing until they notify you that they're doing it.

Private jets are ALWAYS business tools - even when someone's using it as a toy they're still justifying it with business. Accordingly, business rules apply. You keep your mouth shut until it's time to say what needs to be said and then that's all you say. End of story.

So for all you guys hanging you hat on some owner satisfaction survey, you're placing all your eggs in the wrong basket. I know of five NJA and Options owners who are just waiting to reach the end of their contract and then they're gonna grab the yellow and black handle and eject.

The proof will be in the pudding. Or, put another way, it's ALL BS until the wheels are in the well.

TIS

 

[DO-82 driver]

Hey Dsptchr...

I'm just reporting the facts of what I observed in CMH the other day. Once again you prove my point that the folks in the Casino are trying to coverup what is really happening. You guys have no idea of what's really happening out there.

Fact: There is a considerable amount of "in fighting" going on at the Puzzle Palace. "as stated by several FM's ACP's, schedulers and folks from the Travel Dept" Owners Services won't even talk to me when I'm in uniform. Out of uniform....that's a different story.

Fact: the average owner services person has been here 4-5 months. As disclosed by a VP from my last Company Recurrent.

Fact: Pilot satisfaction is sky-high....same VP

Fact: Owner Services approval rating is in the high 60"s- low 70's...(same VP in my last Recurrent)

Fact: The owners realize that the problem is in CMH. "This isn't the same program they signed on with 5 years ago." Quote from one of our Owners.

Fact: "Are you guys going to Strike?" question asked from several Owners in the past few months. Proving that what we are doing as a Unionized group has circulated amongsts the Owners.... and most had no idea of what was happening here. They felt as if they were delliberately lied to by their Owner Reps. They probably were.

Fact: NetJets has lost sight of its original mission of the "finest experience in the aviation industry".....that came from one of the sales reps out of HPN. "We are no longer selling us as the FINEST experience....we are selling us as the LARGEST in the industry.

Fact: All the pilots have to do is "do as you are told" The folks in the Casino will dig their own hole....and its starting to show.

Fact: Owner Services dictates how this place is schedule but yet they have no idea what the real capabilities of the aircraft. This is a quote from an ACP in the X program.

The truth hurts....doesn't it!!!

 

[Fracster]

Boisture and Mcghee are ruining the company. I am amazed Santulli has not steped in. They are so focused on union busting they have forgotten to mind the store.

The owners are the bread and butter, even the bad ones. The company has forgotten that. Cut cost and beat the union, cut cost and beat the union, cut cost and beat the union. This is their war cry.

How about back to basics?

NJA will not be a career job because the company will not be around.

 

[NJAowner]

Facts

DO-82 -- I can only speak to a few facts:

Possible Fact: the average owner services person has been here 4-5 months. As disclosed by a VP from my last Company Recurrent.

Actual Fact: Of the 5 people I deal with on my team, 3 have bene on my team atleast 3 years (I am scratching my head for exact times) and 2 are less than 1 year. That still averages out to well over 2 years per person. I can not speak for any other team but mine.

Possible Fact: "Are you guys going to Strike?" question asked from several Owners in the past few months. Proving that what we are doing as a Unionized group has circulated amongsts the Owners.... and most had no idea of what was happening here. They felt as if they were delliberately lied to by their Owner Reps. They probably were.

Actual Fact: I brought up thel;abor issue appprox. a year and half ago when I renewed. I got a very accurate picture.

Those are the only ones I can speak about with actual, first hand knowledge.

 

[DO-82 driver]

NJAowner,

I'm glad you were presented with an actual picture of what the labor situation was like around here. Many of the owners, especially after the Omaha Informational Picketting Event, expressed their frustration and felt as if they had been "mislead" as to what was really going on. Maybe it was their fault for not specifically asking those types of questions.

Owner Services issues.....I was just relaying what was being said at a training event I attended. Probably very difficult to actually confirm but why would someone tell a group of pilots stats like that?

As far as my performance......ANY owner I get onboarrd my a/c WILL receive the finest and safest service I could possible provide. I really enjoy what I do here and hope to continue.

 

[rettofly]

In Search of Truth....

DO-82 -- I can only speak to a few facts:

Possible Fact: the average owner services person has been here 4-5 months. As disclosed by a VP from my last Company Recurrent.

Actual Fact: Of the 5 people I deal with on my team, 3 have bene on my team atleast 3 years (I am scratching my head for exact times) and 2 are less than 1 year. That still averages out to well over 2 years per person. I can not speak for any other team but mine.QUOTE]

There are several interesting possibilities here:

1. VP doesn't know what he's talking about.

2. VP is lying (shudder!!!) to the troops in Recurrent.

3. NJA Owner's experience is the exception to the rule.

Time for a poll? (Just kidding).

 

[dsptchrnja]

Hey Dsptchr...

I'm just reporting the facts of what I observed in CMH the other day. Once again you prove my point that the folks in the Casino are trying to coverup what is really happening. You guys have no idea of what's really happening out there.

Fact: There is a considerable amount of "in fighting" going on at the Puzzle Palace. "as stated by several FM's ACP's, schedulers and folks from the Travel Dept" Owners Services won't even talk to me when I'm in uniform. Out of uniform....that's a different story.

Fact: the average owner services person has been here 4-5 months. As disclosed by a VP from my last Company Recurrent.

Fact: Pilot satisfaction is sky-high....same VP

Fact: Owner Services approval rating is in the high 60"s- low 70's...(same VP in my last Recurrent)

Fact: The owners realize that the problem is in CMH. "This isn't the same program they signed on with 5 years ago." Quote from one of our Owners.

Fact: "Are you guys going to Strike?" question asked from several Owners in the past few months. Proving that what we are doing as a Unionized group has circulated amongsts the Owners.... and most had no idea of what was happening here. They felt as if they were delliberately lied to by their Owner Reps. They probably were.

Fact: NetJets has lost sight of its original mission of the "finest experience in the aviation industry".....that came from one of the sales reps out of HPN. "We are no longer selling us as the FINEST experience....we are selling us as the LARGEST in the industry.

Fact: All the pilots have to do is "do as you are told" The folks in the Casino will dig their own hole....and its starting to show.

Fact: Owner Services dictates how this place is schedule but yet they have no idea what the real capabilities of the aircraft. This is a quote from an ACP in the X program.

The truth hurts....doesn't it!!!

FACT: Every one of your statements is either subjective opinion, embelished, skewed, or plain inaccurate. You only show you are not interested in the facts. To make an observation and interpret it as representative for the whole company is not "fact reporting".

I don't have the time to reply to every one so let me just reply to the first one:

Fact: There is a considerable amount of "in fighting" going on at the Puzzle Palace. "as stated by several FM's ACP's, schedulers and folks from the Travel Dept"

This is where I live and breath every day, you were there once the other day, found some people who agreed with you on certain points and are now trying to tell me the mood of the flight center? That is laughable. I could go arond the flight center in a heartbeat and find people who agree with me on any given issue - that does not mean it is representative of the whole floor.

Interesting how you keep saying there is "in fighting" but have no examples. I don't even know what your talking about. If you did cite an example I'm assuming that there is either evidence of differing opinions or simply people not happy with certain issues. I ask you - how is this different from any other time in the company's history? There will always be difference of opinion and discontent with certain management decisions. This is called human nature not in-fighting. Sounds to me like you want in-fighting to occur and are tyring to manipulate your destructive agenda. Just my "observation".

When it comes to working together as a team the good folks in the flight center get the job done with professionalism and pride in a company we still believe in. In dispatch there is no in-fighting between us or with any other department. If there is "in-fighting" in other departments, they are keeping it to themselves as professionals - rightly so. Dealing with the challenges, problems, and issues is a daily struggle in our company and you can bet there will always be two groups of people - those who are working to address and solve problems - and those who complain about it. The latter are rarely part of the solution.

The truth hurts....doesn't it!!!

I love the truth - it sets me free.

 

[Fracster]

I love the truth - it sets me free.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Thats the funniest thing I have ever heard. You couldn't find the truth if it smacked you upside the head. Lemming.

Atleast we are out there everyday and we see what is actually going on. We hear the lies from management and we see the truth on the road. We arent ingnorant enough to believe the puzzle palace walks in every morning hugging and kissing each other singing "kumbaya". Come on!

People upstairs are just as pissed off.

 

[dsptchrnja]

People upstairs are just as pissed off.

I know many who are pissed off at you for misrepresenting and slandering this company.