Godless atheists, at it again!

[Fly2Scuba]

High Stakes

I would never voluntarily fly with someone who owned that bumper sticker and really believed in it.

It's a perfect illustration of something described in another bumper sticker: "Religion is a crutch for people who can't think for themselves." [/QUOTE

Wow! The arrogance against religion is unreal in the numerous posts regarding this subject. It's one thing to inquisitly question whether God exists and what are God's true intentions/values. It's quite another to proudly denounce in public through supposed humorous ways that God is a sham. Stakes are pretty high, reference possible eternity. Let me ask you, do you truley believe God does not exist or does your high hope that God does not exist cloud your beliefs?

 

[Typhoon1244]

Re: High Stakes

Originally posted by Fly2Scuba
The arrogance against religion is unreal in the numerous posts regarding this subject.

I know! It rivals the arrogance of those who believe they have all the answers because they've memorized the Bible.

Let me ask you, do you truley believe God does not exist or does your high hope that God does not exist cloud your beliefs?

"You proceed from a false assumption." (Capt. Spock, Star Trek II.) I do not hope "God" does not exist. The fact is that I can not prove whether or not he does exist...and neither can you.

Of this I am certain: no one on Earth can possibly know the nature or motivation of "God." Not you, not me, not Pat Robertson. Not even Super 80. To declare "this is what God wants" is the height of arrogance.

I do suspect, however, that if "He" exists, abandoning observation and deduction in favor of "faith in God" is one of the greatest sins in his eyes.

 

[Dash8]

Re: High Stakes

I would never voluntarily fly with someone who owned that bumper sticker and really believed in it.

It's a perfect illustration of something described in another bumper sticker: "Religion is a crutch for people who can't think for themselves." [/QUOTE

Wow! The arrogance against religion is unreal in the numerous posts regarding this subject. It's one thing to inquisitly question whether God exists and what are God's true intentions/values. It's quite another to proudly denounce in public through supposed humorous ways that God is a sham. Stakes are pretty high, reference possible eternity. Let me ask you, do you truley believe God does not exist or does your high hope that God does not exist cloud your beliefs?

well if you'd paid attention to his previous post he clearly states he's an agnostic

I'm reminded of another favorite quote of mine;
KM: Religion is the opiate of the masses
SF: For god's dark ways, no one has yet invented a lantern

 

[Axel]

Do you do good deeds because you are a man of God or are you a man of God because you do good deeds?

The most common fallacy of a religious debate is the attempt to equate Man's rules to God's law and/or God's rules to Man's law. Both sides of the debate are equally succeptible to this pitfall.

For the record, I am deeply religious in my beliefs, but am suspicious of any doctrine or requirement to express my faith invented my men. Even more so when threatened with perdition for non-compliance.

 

[Super 80]

For the record, I am deeply religious in my beliefs, but am suspicious of any doctrine or requirement to express my faith invented my men. Even more so when threatened with perdition for non-compliance.

Jesus made specific claims to be God. He said He was the only way to the Father.

So if Jesus' claims are true, then it's not invented by man, and thus is not eliminated from your requirements.

The sun is coming! And the sun is a star! And it's spinning through space! And we're spinning through space around the sun! And there's STUFF to do!

A whole bunch of stuff! Important stuff! Fate of the universe stuff! Really, truly big important stuff!

Well, well, well. If this is all true, and you're going to be dead in fifty years or less, and there is nothing past this existence, and when all you have becomes someone else's, and all your accomplishments are for naught, when your offspring four and five generations away have no memory of you -- why go on? Worse yet, the sun is going to supernova and everything on earth will be burnt up. Kind of puts worrying about your 401K plan in a whole different light.

The hopelessness of the humanist worldview gives no comfort whatsoever except in the removal of all bounds of restraint upon the individual so he can enjoy his brief moment of life in hedonist selfish pleasure which is meaningless and passing like the wind, unseen and only felt for the moment. What a sad predicament in which to live.

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

man, super, you've racked up enough frequent miles points with god to go to Uranus and back

 

[avbug]

I have it on DVD.

Onthebeach, you sanctimonious pinhead, keep your forgiveness and unholy selfrighteousness to yourself. Remember me? I'm the one with satan in my heart. Boring a little pinhole, waiting to get out and get you. Better hide, brightspark. He's coming fast. Can you feel it?

I know I can. I never used to be able to, until you piped up and told me he was there. Go to ground and hide. You're next. Pray hard, close your eyes, clutch your ragged bible to your chest and hope for a miracle. My heart today your head tomorrow, and then who knows where?

When you feel that fiery pitchfork pressing the flesh of your backside, think of me. Remember quietly to yourself, it's my fault. The devil was in my heart...you put him there, but he's coming for you.

Why do you suppose that is, mate? Is it perhaps because you give christianity a bad name? You know it's so.

Pluck that beam from your own eye before you strike out to remove the mote from my own, will you? Be a good little christian, and give it a shot. After all, Jesus told you to. It's the least you can do.

 

[Axel]

Whoa up there, Super 80. That is not what I said at all.

This was not the question of whether God created man or vice-versa, but the question of why a man of faith is faithful.

I absolutely refute the assertion by any man, of any faith, that if I do not worship in the fashion and by the doctrine prescribed by that man that I am doomed to that man's version of Hell.

I had attempted with the following statement; posed as a question:

Do you do good deeds because you are a man of God or are you a man of God because you do good deeds?

to define religious identity without singling out a specific belief system. Let me rephrase with the caveat that the use of the term "you" in the following is generic and is not intended as a specific question or challenge to any individual or their beliefs.

(Clearing throat, a-hem) Are you a Christian because you believe in Christ or do you believe in Christ because you are a Christian?

It is, I guess, a chicken or the egg question. You could also substitute any religious symbol, diety or personage and still be asking the same question. (e.g. Buddhist/Buddha, Muslim/ Mohammed, Pagan/Graven Image, etc...)

The entire point is that the propensity for anyone to condemn the beliefs of another simply because they do not coincide with their own has resulted in untold death, destruction and misery since the dawn of time and no religious belief system is innocent in this regard. Look at Ireland.

While you, Super 80, and I share certain beliefs, and each of us believes equally deeply; our beliefs, or more accurately, our methods and doctrine are considerably different. That does not mean one is right and one wrong. Nor does it mean one of us is doomed to the other's Hell and the other can yell "TOL-JA" in the afterlife.

God knows what is in my heart and I do not need to prove anything by jumping through man-made hoops under threat of eternal d@mnation. This is true of ALL men.

As far as my signature line, it is nothing more than a whimsical quote taken from a very cute short story about stuffed animals. In your fervor you just read way, way to much into it.

 

[Dash8]

God knows what is in my heart

Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?
The Shadow Knows!

 

[Axel]

You go, Dash 8! Gotta keep it light.

 

[flyboy]

Unbelievable, just sadly unbelievable.

 

[Snakum]

Remember me? I'm the one with satan in my heart.

Not anymore. Your arteries are so d@mn clogged up I had to leave. Lay off that BBQ, dude.

Thanks,

Beelzebub

 

[Snakum]

Too bad we can't post polls anymore. I think a good one would be ...

Jesus v.s. Mohommad - Who would win a bare-knuckle fist fight?

Jesus v.s. Joseph Smith - Handbags at 50 paces?

Jesus v.s. the Buddha - Austrailian D!ck-wrestling?

Minh "Spawn of Satan" Thong

 

[Typhoon1244]

Fly2Scuba,

You asked me a loaded question, and I tried to give you an honest answer.

Now let me ask you something: what lead you to have undying faith in something that can not be proven? Does it stem from a paralyzing fear of death? Or is your faith in "God" born out of a need to explain things we humans are not capable of understanding yet?

 

[avbug]

Not anymore. Your arteries are so d@mn clogged up I had to leave. Lay off that BBQ, dude. Thanks, Beelzebub

If you can get onthebeach to ratify that, perhaps I'm to be released from my fiery torment. Not a minute too soon, either. I was nearly out of Gatoraide.

Slight correction on the second post. Jesus vs. Mohamad would be placing two contemporaries in opposition. A fair question. Jesus vs. the Buddah while slightly incongruous, still a reasonable comparison. However, Jesus vs. Joseph Smith isn't. Joseph Smith only claimed to have seen and spoken with Jesus, and to be a follower and disciple of Jesus. Neither Mohamad nor the Buddah would fit that category.

Jesus vs. Joseph Smith would be a little like pitting George Bush against the republican party, whereas the other comparisons are more like front runners in opposition parties. But before we drag diety into the conflict, why not just do as the great Master Charlie Daniels set forth nearly three decades ago, in The Devil Went Down to Georgia...do it with dueling banjos?

Never was a better suggestion laid forth to thward the wily darts of the Adversary, than dual banjos to the death, or eternam condemnation, whichever comes first.

 

[Axel]

It was fiddles.

Oh, mama! It's a portent, an omen! It's the End Times fer sher. Avbug was wrong about something.

 

[SATCFI]

When one is born again (John 3:3), it is no longer a matter of proving that God exists. The Holy Spirit dwells in the heart of each born again Christian and he/she KNOWS the truth. We are truly blessed to have the Holy Spirit. Back during the days of Jesus, his deciples didn't have the Holy Spirit...that's why the never truly understood that Jesus was fully man and fully God.

Isaiah 55...8"My thoughts are completely different from yours," says the LORD. "And my ways are far beyond anything you could imagine. 9For just as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts higher than your thoughts.

We don't need to fully understand the majesty and mystery of God to believe.

 

[Snakum]

We don't need to fully understand the majesty and mystery of God to believe

Well ... that's a d@mn good thing, cause I don't know many rational men who swallow the whole spiel ... hook, line, and sinker.

1st Doyle:Ch 2:Verse 1 "This one begat that one, that one begat this one, and lo and behold someone said some $hit. I don't understand any of it."

And lo ... Doyle did speaketh a mighty truth ... then Carl putteth the lawnmower blade thru his forehead with a might swing ... and he was no more.



Minh

(You'd be shocked to know that two or three Sunday mornings a month I'm sitting my happy fat @ss in a Methodist church pew. )

 

[Super 80]

This (is a) question of why a man of faith is faithful.

I had attempted with the following statement; posed as a question:

Do you do good deeds because you are a man of God or are you a man of God because you do good deeds?

While you, Super 80, and I share certain beliefs, and each of us believes equally deeply; our beliefs, or more accurately, our methods and doctrine are considerably different. That does not mean one is right and one wrong. Nor does it mean one of us is doomed to the other's Hell and the other can yell "TOL-JA" in the afterlife.

Axel,

This is why this message board format is a poor substitute in sharing the Gospel, and sharing one's beliefs. I can answer questions easier on an academic point than get through with my actual faith.

Being good, or religious does not mean you get to heaven if you take what is plainly written in the Bible that Jesus said in any plain sense of the language.

This is not my doctrine. This is not I say so. This is Jesus Christ's testimony.

Now if you accept Christ in your heart and profess with your mouth, the Bible plainly says you're saved.

However, once you do that, there ought to be some life changes made in the individual. I was growing before. With some watershed moments of difficulty, I have become less like what I was before I began my walk began. Once I started to obey by getting baptized at 40, 23 years after my profession of faith when I began to believe in my heart; I started to bear fruit. Three years ago, I started putting my personal safety in God's hands and quit 15 years of self-defense, and I became more fruitful -not because of what I gave up, but because I was trusting the Lord to provide for me. Recently, I have had through prayer and difficulties come to place my life more and more in the hands of the Lord, and the fruits of that are becoming evident even more. The more I humble myself before God, the more I try to be like Christ in my walk, running away from sin and temptation and running to the Lord, the more I grow in the Lord, and the more I see the fruit of being a Christian: peace, love, goodness, joy, kindness, patience, gentleness and self-control.

Now you can work to attain those qualities, but if you don't profess that Jesus is Lord, the Bible says you will die in your sin.

Jesus is the benchmark, not how you live your life. If you live your life for Christ, you will have all those benefits, but you can live like that without Christ, but not have life everlasting through Christ.

Now if you want to believe you can get to heaven by being good, have at it. But that is not what Jesus says.

I don't condemn you to death forever. I am not your Judge. No one is going to telling you I told you so because as far as I can determine from my study, the great multitude from every tribe nation, language and people is going to be raised in heavenly bodies, without all the worldly fleshly desires we have now, and our focus is going to be on worship, not going nyah-nyah-nyah.

As far as your signature goes, I wasn't trying to go off on it, but I thought that line was a great launching point for the worldly focus those that reject God look to for their salvation - and it's all for naught.

 

[SATCFI]

Snakum,

Might I ask your motivation for attending church?

 

[skyking1976]

Snakum,

Might I ask your motivation for attending church?

I think he goes to pick up chicks...

 

[Snakum]

Eggzackery!

I do, indeed, go primarily to meet babes. It has been my experience that Protestant women, especially Baptists and Methodists, can be had pretty easily, especially the married ones. Catholics and Jehovah's Witnesses are usually a pretty tough nut to crack.

For you single guys ... give it a try. You'd be amazed at the action you can get in medium-sized Protestant churches. If you need pointers ... I'll be at the 9:00AM contemporary service at a certain Methodist church in Greensboro most Sundays. A hint ... it's on Muir's Chapel Rd. You know what a contemporary service is don't you? That's where we all stand and sing "Jesus Is My Boyfriend", hug each other, and go home. Simple ... direct .. to the point ... and still time to ask a hot divorcee to coffee at Borders.



Minh
(Only half joking. )

 

[Axel]

Super 80-

Are you Bryan Bedford?

 

[Dash8]

Well ... that's a d@mn good thing, cause I don't know many rational men who swallow the whole spiel ... hook, line, and sinker.

1st Doyle:Ch 2:Verse 1 "This one begat that one, that one begat this one, and lo and behold someone said some $hit. I don't understand any of it."

And lo ... Doyle did speaketh a mighty truth ... then Carl putteth the lawnmower blade thru his forehead with a might swing ... and he was no more.



Minh

(You'd be shocked to know that two or three Sunday mornings a month I'm sitting my happy fat @ss in a Methodist church pew. )

mmmmmmmmhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmm, i like dem french fried taters...

 

[Dash8]

" Consult the Book of Armaments!"

'Armaments, chapter two, verses nine to twenty-one.'

" And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, 'O Lord, bless this Thy hand grenade that, with it, Thou mayest blow Thine enemies to tiny bits in Thy mercy. And the Lord did grin, and the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths and carp and anchovies and orangutans and breakfast cereals and fruit bats and large chu..."

'Skip a bit, Brother'

" And the Lord spake, saying, 'First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then, shalt thou count to three. No more. No less. Three shalt be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, nor either count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then, lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.'"

 

[skyking1976]

" Consult the Book of Armaments!"

'Armaments, chapter two, verses nine to twenty-one.'

" And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, 'O Lord, bless this Thy hand grenade that, with it, Thou mayest blow Thine enemies to tiny bits in Thy mercy. And the Lord did grin, and the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths and carp and anchovies and orangutans and breakfast cereals and fruit bats and large chu..."

'Skip a bit, Brother'

" And the Lord spake, saying, 'First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then, shalt thou count to three. No more. No less. Three shalt be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, nor either count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then, lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.'"

Arthur: "One, two, five..."

Galahad: "Three, sir!"

Arthur: "Three"

 

[kevdog]

JESUS IS LORD!!

DENY HIM!

 

[Fly2Scuba]

Fly2Scuba,

You asked me a loaded question, and I tried to give you an honest answer.

Now let me ask you something: what lead you to have undying faith in something that can not be proven? Does it stem from a paralyzing fear of death? Or is your faith in "God" born out of a need to explain things we humans are not capable of understanding yet?

Actually a combination of many things. First and foremost a feeling deep down in my soul that their is a higher power. Second of all, growing up in loving Christian environment. Third off, a feeling that death cannot be the end. A classmate of mine was brutally murdered walking to school when I was in eigth grade. Not everyone on this earth gets to enjoy the full wonders of this world for 70+ years, and I can't imagine that this is the only life. Also the fact that such evil acts exist definitely leads me to believe that Satan is a real force counter to God. On a logical basis, double-blind scientific prayer studies have been conducted in medical cases proving that it can have a positive effect (reference http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/prayer.html).
Also on a logical basis, believing that God does not exist seems like a huge risk given that life goes by fast in this world compared to possible eternity. I would also like to add the big bang theory makes no sense whatsoever to be explained by human logic. If there was a big bang of cosmic material, where the heck did the original cosmic materical/energy source come from?

By the way, my personal belief is that if you believe in God and try in good faith to lead your life in goodness, then you're looking at a good afterlife. Whether one is Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddist, etc.

 

[ThomasR]

Re: Re: Godless atheists, at it again!

...... MT 13:29 " `No,' he answered, `because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.' "

What happens to the ones who get cross germinated?

Germans

 

[Timebuilder]

Of this I am certain: no one on Earth can possibly know the nature or motivation of "God." Not you, not me, not Pat Robertson. Not even Super 80. To declare "this is what God wants" is the height of arrogance.

There is no "reason" to be certain of this, as you say.

First, a review of the material in question, the Bible, makes clear that faith is a requirement for us who have not lived and walked with Christ in the physical way. We have covered this before. On the other hand, the Bible does declare itself to be the inerrant Word of God. There are only two possibilities: that this statement is either right or it is wrong. It is a matter of opening your heart to make this determination. Once made, there is a certainty that goes beyond the simple logic of Man. By taking the Word of God to heart, and by prayer, you can certainly know what God wants, as He speaks in that "still, small voice" found in prayer and the immersion in His Word.

Man can certainly suffer mental maladies that lead one to make in incorrect determination of God's will, such as schizophrenia and other such sickness that is a result of our fall from grace, but one can clearly see the unchanging character of God in the Bible, and know that He does not tell charlatans to by 18 million dollar jets.

The test of a truth is :"is it Biblical?" or in other words, is it in character for God to assert this idea?

You can make very clear determinations of God's will by measuring against His Word.