Go Jet Pilots no longer welcome on XJ?

[Tarzan]

And therein lies the problem.....

What construes "stabbing your fellow pilots in the back" is up to interpretation.....

Well, let me take a crack at it.

When an airlines opens a new certificate expressly to get around the CBA of the original pilot group and another pilot takes a job with the new company while the original group is fighting..... I think that pretty much covers this sort of "stabbing your fellow pilots in the back."

There certainly are others but I believe this is the most pervasive and most easily stopped. The "lowering of the bar" does not fall here. It only opens you up to ridicule from other groups.

 

[A350]

Tarzan:

Let me take a crack at it.....

When a company opens up a new certificate to get around the CBA of the original pilot group and another pilot takes the job while the other is fighting, that much ...........

So we are in agreement that the regional carriers, who opened up new certificates to get around the CBA of the mainline pilot group while the other is fighting........

does that sum it up?

You guys will never get it....you can't expect this or any of the actions you proscribe to to give the profession a chance. Unity is where it is at, but you will never get there by trying to screw each other over.....union vs. non-union....union vs. union.....it will never end.

A350

 

[Tarzan]

So we are in agreement that the regional carriers, who opened up new certificates to get around the CBA of the mainline pilot group while the other is fighting........

does that sum it up?

You guys will never get it....you can't expect this or any of the actions you prescribe to to give the profession a chance. Unity is where it is at, but you will never get there by trying to screw each other over.....union vs. non-union....union vs. union.....it will never end.

A350

Ummm, regionals opened to get around what mainline CBA? All the stuff I've seen is because mainline guys sold it off because they didn't want to fly little planes. Or management offered a couple of more bucks for just a few more seats in scope. The genie's out of the bottle on that one and will likely never go back in.

I'm NOT looking for the opportunity to further my own career on the backs of another pilot group. Eventually, it will catch up with me. However, I don't think many others out there quite get it though (Read here: GoJet and Freedom A-listers). There will always be pilots who are in it to take care of me now. It all gets us in the end including the guys looking for the end around on seniority.

 

[A350]

When you did all that reading, you only comprehended what you wanted to.

If legacy airline management didn't know it had legions of pilots willing to fly anything they could throw at it, there wouldn't be regional carriers.....and all the pilots hired there would have had to have been hired at the mainline. Therefore, we would never have gone down the scope road, the SJS road, the alter ego road.....are you comprehending this?

You can say it all you want, but regional pilots did further their career on the backs of another group....the mainline pilots they now fly codeshare flights for that lost their jobs while the regional carriers exploded in size.

(for the reading impaired, I don't believe this...but there are that do)

Again, it just depends on your perspective. So stop all this holier than thou garbage about how you won't do anything to further your career. Airline management is depending on you and your fellow arrow chuckers.

A350

 

[MCOE175]

2 kids are playing in the school yard... One kid says to the other "my dad is a cop and he is gonna beat up your dad" the other replies, "oh yeah, my dad is a pilot and he is gonna ******************** your mom"

 

[EMB170Pilot]

2 kids are playing in the school yard... One kid says to the other "my dad is a cop and he is gonna beat up your dad" the other replies, "oh yeah, my dad is a pilot and he is gonna ******************** your mom"

no no it's,

"Oh yeah! My dad is a pilot and he fuked your mother in the a$$ and had you."

In my best Andrew Dice Clay voice, Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[kj6991]

A Blow-jet pilot came on board the other day trying to jumpseat. we were full and our jumpseat was actually under an MEL(it really was). I politely told him our jumpseat was under MEL and he said "uuuuhhh really... umm okk.. i've been hearing a lot of that lately"

hahaha

 

[Salukipilot4590]

Well right now I have a bit of a dillemma... I could wait until later tonight to JS home or I could take a HOJet flight earlier... I should wait for the later flight shouldnt I?

 

[PCL_128]

Well right now I have a bit of a dillemma... I could wait until later tonight to JS home or I could take a HOJet flight earlier... I should wait for the later flight shouldnt I?

Uh huh.

 

[outtahere]

When you did all that reading, you only comprehended what you wanted to.

If legacy airline management didn't know it had legions of pilots willing to fly anything they could throw at it, there wouldn't be regional carriers.....and all the pilots hired there would have had to have been hired at the mainline. Therefore, we would never have gone down the scope road, the SJS road, the alter ego road.....are you comprehending this?

You can say it all you want, but regional pilots did further their career on the backs of another group....the mainline pilots they now fly codeshare flights for that lost their jobs while the regional carriers exploded in size.

(for the reading impaired, I don't believe this...but there are that do)

Again, it just depends on your perspective. So stop all this holier than thou garbage about how you won't do anything to further your career. Airline management is depending on you and your fellow arrow chuckers.

A350

There have been regional carriers since the early 70's, and at first they just flew small turboprops to really close destinations. Then the mainline guys got to big for their britches and didn't want to fly large turboprops or small jets so they sold scope in exchange for huge raises. Then the small jets got larger because they sold more scope to keep some of these large raises. Now, you have CL-65 in your bio, so I am going to assume that you were at a regional. So why didn't you go flight instruct and fly for some ********************ty frieght operator and wait your turn to get into a major? And also, you now apparantly fly for Jetblue, which most could say was at one point no better than Skybus, so why did you sell out and go to a job that is putting downward pressure on mainline salaries? You my friend are the hypocrite's hypocrite!

 

[Smarta$$]

Gayjet is specifically NOT on our list at Pinnacle. I was furloughed TSA because of them. Do you think they will ever see my jumpseat?

 

[Tarzan]

When you did all that reading, you only comprehended what you wanted to.

If legacy airline management didn't know it had legions of pilots willing to fly anything they could throw at it, there wouldn't be regional carriers.....and all the pilots hired there would have had to have been hired at the mainline. Therefore, we would never have gone down the scope road, the SJS road, the alter ego road.....are you comprehending this?

You can say it all you want, but regional pilots did further their career on the backs of another group....the mainline pilots they now fly codeshare flights for that lost their jobs while the regional carriers exploded in size.

(for the reading impaired, I don't believe this...but there are that do)

Again, it just depends on your perspective. So stop all this holier than thou garbage about how you won't do anything to further your career. Airline management is depending on you and your fellow arrow chuckers.

A350

Gosh, no answer to my question. What mainline CBA was violated by a start-up regional? Outtahere says it fairly well so I'll defer to his post.

BTW, I could have gone to GoJet and been a captain immediately. If I didn't believe it was going to hurt me, why would I go ahead? To be valiant? Hardly the case, that crap comes back around in the end. I am all for flying turboprops if it will give me a better shot at keeping a mainline job but you dang well it ain't going to happen. The gig is up at that level.

Before you start talking out your pie hole about I only take what I want from it, try reading mine again. After all, it looks like you only took what you wanted from the post as well. I agreed with most of your original post but question how you got a mainline CBA being walked on by a startup regional.

Get off your high horse bro. You're nothing but a bus driver like the rest of us.

 

[Razorback Flyer]

A lot of the times when you jumpseat on the majors they don't really care about this. The latestet one, the CA waved me back to the cabin because he was too busy eating and listending to his Ipod to shake my hand. I find it that it's mostly a regional CA thing. Still you should go up to the CA and FO and introduce yourself.

I don't believe this to be true at all. I did an observational jump seat the other day (on a mainline carrier,) and the captain summed it up pefectly. He said "Your first sentence when talking to the captain about the jumpseat should always end in a question mark." This wasn't directed at me, but at a jumpseater he'd had the previous day. The fellow showed up, hadn't shaved, and stated "I'm riding your jumpseat." The captain rebuked him for not asking (rightfully so, IMHO,) and asked the kid to run a razor across his face before boarding the aircraft. The guy got all huffy, and dissapeared.

So I think most major guys are a little more rigorous when it comes to getting on the jumpseat - and rightfully so. I've also noticed that most of them are just as respectful when they came to ask for a ride on my jumpseat. Many aren't as formal as to fully inspect all of your documents, and I think every captain has been in a situation where he's so burried under things that he just waves the guy on to the back. Many at the majors are unfortunately unaware of what is going on at the regional levels as well. But I think most major captains will definately give you the boot if you do not show propper respect and courtesy.

And from a former 'skier - XJ rocks!

 

[The_Russian]

I don't believe this to be true at all. I did an observational jump seat the other day (on a mainline carrier,) and the captain summed it up pefectly. He said "Your first sentence when talking to the captain about the jumpseat should always end in a question mark." This wasn't directed at me, but at a jumpseater he'd had the previous day. The fellow showed up, hadn't shaved, and stated "I'm riding your jumpseat." The captain rebuked him for not asking (rightfully so, IMHO,) and asked the kid to run a razor across his face before boarding the aircraft. The guy got all huffy, and dissapeared.

So I think most major guys are a little more rigorous when it comes to getting on the jumpseat - and rightfully so. I've also noticed that most of them are just as respectful when they came to ask for a ride on my jumpseat. Many aren't as formal as to fully inspect all of your documents, and I think every captain has been in a situation where he's so burried under things that he just waves the guy on to the back. Many at the majors are unfortunately unaware of what is going on at the regional levels as well. But I think most major captains will definately give you the boot if you do not show propper respect and courtesy.

And from a former 'skier - XJ rocks!

As they should be. When did folks lose respect for each other?

 

[siucavflight]

Well right now I have a bit of a dillemma... I could wait until later tonight to JS home or I could take a HOJet flight earlier... I should wait for the later flight shouldnt I?

I would say fly the one that gets you home the quickest.

 

[xjhawk]

Now i must say, i am for our union.....but I think our union fights the wrong fight.....go jets....why do we hate them? I just looked at their pay rates, and guess what, they make more than us at XJ (mesaba). I looked at Sky west, guess what, they too make more than us! This regional against regional race to the bottom of the pay scale could be solved by ALPA national saying this. by 2012 ( or when ever the last contract is up for all ALPA regionals) the pay scale for all alpa regional carriers will be this, or they must shut down-i.e Delta, if you do not accept this contract, no other alpa pilot will fly for your connection. period. fight the fight that needs to be fought...... just my rant. (shot take pleeze at me gramer)

 

[DoinTime]

Now i must say, i am for our union.....but I think our union fights the wrong fight.....go jets....why do we hate them? I just looked at their pay rates, and guess what, they make more than us at XJ (mesaba). I looked at Sky west, guess what, they too make more than us! This regional against regional race to the bottom of the pay scale could be solved by ALPA national saying this. by 2012 ( or when ever the last contract is up for all ALPA regionals) the pay scale for all alpa regional carriers will be this, or they must shut down-i.e Delta, if you do not accept this contract, no other alpa pilot will fly for your connection. period. fight the fight that needs to be fought...... just my rant. (shot take pleeze at me gramer)

Would your perspective change if Mesaba were still owned by MAIR and the CRJ-900s were being flown by BigSky?

 

[Terry Hunter]

Now i must say, i am for our union.....but I think our union fights the wrong fight.....go jets....why do we hate them? I just looked at their pay rates, and guess what, they make more than us at XJ (mesaba). I looked at Sky west, guess what, they too make more than us! This regional against regional race to the bottom of the pay scale could be solved by ALPA national saying this. by 2012 ( or when ever the last contract is up for all ALPA regionals) the pay scale for all alpa regional carriers will be this, or they must shut down-i.e Delta, if you do not accept this contract, no other alpa pilot will fly for your connection. period. fight the fight that needs to be fought...... just my rant. (shot take pleeze at me gramer)

The problem with GoJo is that it was created entirely as an evil way to sidestep an agreement that TSA had in place. Similar to the intent that MAIR had with XJ, and we now see how disposable that was when MAIR realized how locked it had become in that agreement.

I can understand that one would wonder why we create boundaries with the GoJo pilots. It is a way to influence pilots to not work there, as they are a mechanism that hurts all airlines, union or not, as management is going with the coupon approach. What does it say when a management will not honor their agreement?

So they are paid more, well there are many dimensions to that. What are their work rules like? Have they been in bankruptcy? Have they been the victim of the same crime they are the product of? (Not knocking Skywest here). Just remember to keep a big picture out on these things - if the CEO's aren't busy blowing up (expanding) your airline, they are trying to cut costs with no regard to how you or your family feel about it.

 

[Pilot124]

A Blow-jet pilot came on board the other day trying to jumpseat. we were full and our jumpseat was actually under an MEL(it really was). I politely told him our jumpseat was under MEL and he said "uuuuhhh really... umm okk.. i've been hearing a lot of that lately"

hahaha

Now that is funny. :laugh: I could just see the pimple faced kid frown... like a lost puppy. HAHAHA!!!

 

[Airline Driver]

This is a stupid thread. But, I am entertained by all of romper room crap that is spewed out by allot of you.

Alright I will bite, First off, What picket line did the pilots at Gojet's Cross???????????????.. Hmmmmmm, Uhhhhh, lets think about this for a second. None right? So then I guess they are not Scabs!!! Some of you have bluntly been saying they are Scabs over the past few threads about this group.

I am not saying what they did was the right thing to do. Veteran airline pilots taking Captain slots new that they were doing something not really correct. The rookies with out an airline background did not have a clue of the situation, so don't knock them.

If TSA where walking the picket line and Pilots where going to Gojet's, Completely different story. Seeing as how there was no strike but yet contract negotiations involved with the TSA group, then that is an area I call, "not favorable". But the Pilot group is not a Scab group.

No I do not fly for Gojet's nor am I supporting them over the TSA group. My point is that no picket line was crossed so they are not Scabs!! Both Groups, TSA and Gojet's are welcome on the jumpseat anytime they need a ride. Their fight is not my problem so I have no ill will twards any of them.

 

[FoxyWhiskey]

This is a stupid thread. But, I am entertained by all of romper room crap that is spewed out by allot of you.

Alright I will bite, First off, What picket line did the pilots at Gojet's Cross???????????????.. Hmmmmmm, Uhhhhh, lets think about this for a second. None right? So then I guess they are not Scabs!!! Some of you have bluntly been saying they are Scabs over the past few threads about this group.

I am not saying what they did was the right thing to do. Veteran airline pilots taking Captain slots new that they were doing something not really correct. The rookies with out an airline background did not have a clue of the situation, so don't knock them.

If TSA where walking the picket line and Pilots where going to Gojet's, Completely different story. Seeing as how there was no strike but yet contract negotiations involved with the TSA group, then that is an area I call, "not favorable". But the Pilot group is not a Scab group.

No I do not fly for Gojet's nor am I supporting them over the TSA group. My point is that no picket line was crossed so they are not Scabs!! Both Groups, TSA and Gojet's are welcome on the jumpseat anytime they need a ride. Their fight is not my problem so I have no ill will twards any of them.

I couldn't agree more. Nicely said.

 

[embraerjetpilot]

go jets pilots are not other pilots...

better not pull that crap on my plane

 

[nwa_contrails]

The rookies with out an airline background did not have a clue of the situation, so don't knock them.

True they weren't there when the crap went down, but wouldn't it be in your best interest to research a company before going to work for them? Maybe in this age of SJS that doesn't apply, but still...they work for that company so they're going to get 'knocked' as if they were one of the original ones or not.

 

[Foxcow]

Exactly ^^

That "I didn't know" crap doesn't fly because if one is considered to be professional, he or she will research the company before even applying. When I was 16, I thought it was common sense to ask questions and talk to some of the employees before I accepted my first job at McDonald's.

 

[Fly2Scuba]

This is a stupid thread. But, I am entertained by all of romper room crap that is spewed out by allot of you.

Alright I will bite, First off, What picket line did the pilots at Gojet's Cross???????????????.. Hmmmmmm, Uhhhhh, lets think about this for a second. None right? So then I guess they are not Scabs!!! Some of you have bluntly been saying they are Scabs over the past few threads about this group.

I am not saying what they did was the right thing to do. Veteran airline pilots taking Captain slots new that they were doing something not really correct. The rookies with out an airline background did not have a clue of the situation, so don't knock them.

If TSA where walking the picket line and Pilots where going to Gojet's, Completely different story. Seeing as how there was no strike but yet contract negotiations involved with the TSA group, then that is an area I call, "not favorable". But the Pilot group is not a Scab group.

No I do not fly for Gojet's nor am I supporting them over the TSA group. My point is that no picket line was crossed so they are not Scabs!! Both Groups, TSA and Gojet's are welcome on the jumpseat anytime they need a ride. Their fight is not my problem so I have no ill will twards any of them.

Oh f that. Yea, you're right, they're not scabs. But they are as close as one can get. This fluffiness game of technicalities is plain/plane silly. These ignorant a-holes that chose to work there are scumbags. Scabs - no, scumbags - yes. Unethical, selfish, and idiotic.

 

[FoxyWhiskey]

And your all gonna be in the same newhire class at Delta, SWA, CO, Alaska, United, UPS, FedEx, NetJets, etc....get over it.

-FW

 

[Long Time Gone]

where's not on your list?

its THEY'RE....a contraction is they and are....


jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesus is it that flunckin hard?????

Someone tell SIU that it's THAN, not THEN in his previous statement. For example, "My Dad is better than your's", or "If your sister gets on her knees, then......".:nuts:

Oh wait, I just did......

Here's to you Mr. I Should Have Payed More Attention In English Class. :beer:

 

[Flyprdu]

Real Men Of Genius

Today we salute you, Mr. Should have paid attention in English Class.

<singing> Mr. Shoulda Paid Attention in English Class!

That's right, your forum posts expose the gaping holes in the American education system. Then, Than... doesn't really matter.

<singing> Double Entendre!

Besides, who else could get away with consistently spelling "loser" with two "O's?"

<singing> WHOOOO, that's how it sounds!

So here's to you, Mr. Shoulda Paid Attention in English Class.

 

[saabservant]

Pilots who go to work for alter-ego operations designed to get around contracts are scabs. Period.
They know exactly what they are doing.
Mesa has done it (freedom, hojets), Mair holdings tried to do it against Mesaba, British Air now doing it, and alpa natl. is fighting it.

Just because there is no witholding of service or picket line does not mean they are not trying to steal jobs from union workers and break a contract. They are taking advantage of an opportunity to get ahead themselves at the expense of an entire unionized workforce.

Ignorance is no excuse. This is a war for working conditions, pay, and the status of the profession.
In the good old days, their heads might wind up on a pike!....
But I'm a Christian, and we live by laws here....
oh, well.

 

[Airline Driver]

True they weren't there when the crap went down, but wouldn't it be in your best interest to research a company before going to work for them? Maybe in this age of SJS that doesn't apply, but still...they work for that company so they're going to get 'knocked' as if they were one of the original ones or not.

If a 22 year old kid has 300TT with ambitions to fly. They want to get on with the first company that hires them to get experience as fast as possible. Yes It is in their best interest to research who they are going to work for but not all of them do. They are more concerned with just getting on with someone and figure it is just a stepping stone to build time so who cares where they work as long as they are building time an in the air. Times are now different with all the consolidations and mergers, we are all going to be at our supposed stepping stones for a long while so Yes I would research a little more carefully.