glideslope interception in 121 ops

[flya380]

in 121 ops when do you consider the glideslope intercepted? (I've heard when the GS is one dot above?is it true)
thanks

 

[The PIC]

Why would 121 be any different then anyone else? I hope your not inst. rated

 

[av8er23]

Why would 121 be any different then anyone else? I hope your not inst. rated

It could be different because some things are different when operating under a different set of the FAR's. He asked a simple question and gets a smartass answer. I discuss on other boards scubaboard and a computer tech board and the people in here are by far the most bitter, smartass, and most unhelpful bunch.

 

[Workin'Stiff]

We do it just like everyone else... When you're right on the money, it's captured.

 

[Stealthh21]

It could be different because some things are different when operating under a different set of the FAR's. He asked a simple question and gets a smartass answer. I discuss on other boards scubaboard and a computer tech board and the people in here are by far the most bitter, smartass, and most unhelpful bunch.

Also, willfly4food.com is full of that too. I think far worse then here.

 

[Doo Doo Brown]

as soon as the autopilot catches it!

 

[dojetdriver]

in 121 ops when do you consider the glideslope intercepted? (I've heard when the GS is one dot above?is it true)
thanks

To clarify, did you mean when have you intercepted for the purpose of determing the FAF inbound on an ILS approach or possibly aircraft configuration?

Is that what you are asking?

 

[heywatchthis]

in 121 ops when do you consider the glideslope intercepted? (I've heard when the GS is one dot above?is it true)
thanks

Right. It is intercepted when you are at zero deflection. But that doesn't necessary mean you can continue an approach under 121 when the weather goes below minimums.

 

[Lequip]

in 121 ops when do you consider the glideslope intercepted? (I've heard when the GS is one dot above?is it true)
thanks

Get a life man!. Have you ever kissed a girl? Let me know when you return from the Star Trek Convention.

 

[DrewBlows]

in 121 ops when do you consider the glideslope intercepted? (I've heard when the GS is one dot above?is it true)
thanks

When the FMA switches from ALT to GS, which is pretty much when the GS is centered. One dot below (or above as you are describing it) is ussually when the gear goes down, unless you intercept well outside the marker, in which case I ussually leave the gear down to the marker. That's technique, not procedure though.

A far as relevence of the question, I presume you are talking about when you are on the final approach portion of the ILS, which is the point when you intercept the gliseslope at or below the glideslope intercept altitude (where the GS feather starts on a Jeppesen approach plate). We (I) frequently intercept the GS well outside the glideslope intercept altitude rather than follow each stepdown fix (of couse careful to make sure that I cross at or above them), but technically am not considered on the final approach segment until at the glideslope intercept altitude. At that point, you are authorized to continue the approach regardless of the tower reported visability, prior to that point get ready for holding instructions.

Which leads to the next question. Can you land when the tower reported visibility is less than published minimums? You can as long as the in-flight visibility is greater than minimums. How do you determine the in-flight visibilty? Glad you asked. If you are landing on a runway with ALSF-1 or ALSF-2 approach light system with touchdown zone lights, the minimums are ussually 1800' visibility and 200' agl. If you arrive at 200' agl and can see the approach lights you can descend to 100' agl. At that point if you can see the runway environment (runway, runway lights, runway markings, threshold, threshold lights, threshold markings, VASI, touchdown zone, touchdown zone lights, touchdown zone markings, red terminating bars, or red siderow bars) you can continue to land. As long as you are on glideslope at or above 100' when you see the runway environment, you have 1800' visibility by default. If you know this you don't have to try to guess what the visibility is at a time when you should be trying to land the airplane. This also works on a 2400' visibility approach with only a MALSR or SSALR approach light system. Oviously there is no red teminating bars or red side-row bars on those systems, so the visibility has to be greater in order to see the runway environment.

 

[DrewBlows]

Get a life man!. Have you ever kissed a girl? Let me know when you return from the Star Trek Convention.

I guess you were born with all aviation knowledge, what an insult that he would ask a question that he should have known from birth, like you Mr. Aviation God.

 

[MarineGrunt]

It could be different because some things are different when operating under a different set of the FAR's. He asked a simple question and gets a smartass answer. I discuss on other boards scubaboard and a computer tech board and the people in here are by far the most bitter, smartass, and most unhelpful bunch

Get a life man!. Have you ever kissed a girl? Let me know when you return from the Star Trek Convention.

Case and point.

 

[Dumbluck]

G/S is captured when centered, you can intercept the G/S from above or below. Capture from above is not recommended though. FAF is a alt./distance. If you are legally cleared for the approach i.e. visiblity, and obtain the airport enviroment you can continue the approach belows mins, then if cleared to land and in a safe position to land, you can land.

P.S. take the bait, come on I know you want to

 

[Smarta$$]

A far as relevence of the question, I presume you are talking about when you are on the final approach portion of the ILS, which is the point when you intercept the gliseslope at or below the glideslope intercept altitude (where the GS feather starts on a Jeppesen approach plate). We (I) frequently intercept the GS well outside the glideslope intercept altitude rather than follow each stepdown fix (of couse careful to make sure that I cross at or above them), but technically am not considered on the final approach segment until at the glideslope intercept altitude. At that point, you are authorized to continue the approach regardless of the tower reported visability, prior to that point get ready for holding instructions.

.

I was under the impression (maybe mistakenly) that your FAF is glideslope intercept regardless of altitude. Please someone give me the correct info.

 

[heywatchthis]

I was under the impression (maybe mistakenly) that your FAF is glideslope intercept regardless of altitude. Please someone give me the correct info.

This is Wrong! Altitude does matter. FAF for a precision approach is glideslope intercept at the altitude prescribed on the approach. Another words if ATC tells you your cleared for the ILS at 10,000 feet and you follow the glideslope, you are not at the FAF for the approach until your at the altitude prescribed on the approach chart.

 

[Jack Mehoff]

Get a life man!. Have you ever kissed a girl? Let me know when you return from the Star Trek Convention.

When is the last time you had a attractive girl you didn't pay for A-Hole!

 

[Smarta$$]

This is Wrong! Altitude does matter. FAF for a precision approach is glideslope intercept at the altitude prescribed on the approach. Another words if ATC tells you your cleared for the ILS at 10,000 feet and you follow the glideslope, you are not at the FAF for the approach until your at the altitude prescribed on the approach chart.

I was in an interview with ASA last month. The senior FO that was interviewing me explained that Glideslope intercept was the FAF and that the intercept altitude was JUST for timing the missed approach in case GS failure. I like your explination better but I have an interview in 2days and want to know if others have the same opinion. I know this is a question they ask on my upcoming interview and I want to know for sure. Thanks

 

[BOHICAgain]

This is Wrong! Altitude does matter. FAF for a precision approach is glideslope intercept at the altitude prescribed on the approach. Another words if ATC tells you your cleared for the ILS at 10,000 feet and you follow the glideslope, you are not at the FAF for the approach until your at the altitude prescribed on the approach chart.

FAF on an ILS is lowest published altitude at glide slope intercept. SO if they clear you at 10000 feet your FAF the lowest published altitude. If they clear you below the lowest published altitude it is at whatever altitude you intercept glideslope..

 

[Smarta$$]

FAF on an ILS is lowest published altitude at glide slope intercept. SO if they clear you at 10000 feet your FAF the lowest published altitude. If they clear you below the lowest published altitude it is at whatever altitude you intercept glideslope..

HUH?...................................

 

[Lequip]

When is the last time you had a attractive girl you didn't pay for A-Hole!

Just about an hour ago after dinner as a matter of fact. I can't count your momma since she was ugly and tried to charge me. I had none of that.

 

[heywatchthis]

FAF on an ILS is lowest published altitude at glide slope intercept. SO if they clear you at 10000 feet your FAF the lowest published altitude. If they clear you below the lowest published altitude it is at whatever altitude you intercept glideslope..

CORRECT. Better stated. "Lowest published altitude" that is on the approach chart. But if you intercept the GS below the "lowest published altitude" then that is the FAF.

RECAP!!

If you intercept ABOVE "lowest published altitude" - FAF is once your at the Lowest published altitude.

If you intercept AT "lowest published altitude" - That is the FAF.

If you intercept BELOW "lowest published altitude" - That is the FAF.

The FO in the interview is wrong or you misunderstood him.

 

[Smarta$$]

Alright, thanks guys. Is the lowest published altitude the lightning bolt line on Jepp plates?

 

[heywatchthis]

Alright, thanks guys. Is the lowest published altitude the lightning bolt line on Jepp plates?

There is no Lightning bolt on Jepps. I think that is NOAA!

Are you thinking of the Maltese cross?

Its the lowest altitude the approach allows you to go to intercept the GS. Look for the Maltese Cross!

 

[IFlyFL410]

This is Wrong! Altitude does matter. FAF for a precision approach is glideslope intercept at the altitude prescribed on the approach. Another words if ATC tells you your cleared for the ILS at 10,000 feet and you follow the glideslope, you are not at the FAF for the approach until your at the altitude prescribed on the approach chart.

Agreed....just look for the Moltese Cross

 

[IFlyFL410]

I was in an interview with ASA last month. The senior FO that was interviewing me explained that Glideslope intercept was the FAF and that the intercept altitude was JUST for timing the missed approach in case GS failure. I like your explination better but I have an interview in 2days and want to know if others have the same opinion. I know this is a question they ask on my upcoming interview and I want to know for sure. Thanks

BTW FWIW.....In recurrent this morning, our system chief pilot was in talking about issues with us. Somewhere in the mix, he mentioned there will be no more new-hire classes. The last class started on November 14th. Just thought you'd like to know that in case you were holding your breathe for a quick class date here. He said Skywest had stopeed all classes for now as well. Since there are no a/c coming on property at this very moment, they aren't hiring. Good Luck.

 

[DrewBlows]

Alright, thanks guys. Is the lowest published altitude the lightning bolt line on Jepp plates?

I don't have a plate in front of me but look at yours, I think it is where the feather ends (or begins, depending how you look at it). I think the lightning bolt is on the government charts.

 

[SSDD]

Carefull there, the Maltese cross is the non precission, Loc only, FAF, it has nothing to do with a full ILS. As has been stated before the FAF on an ILS is the published altitude, so you're looking for a number, not a symbol.

 

[405]

Ils?!?!

If I have to use an ILS on a 121 flight, I'm not going. That means there's weather at my destination. "I don't do weather."

(I love that quote.)

 

[Jack Mehoff]

Just about an hour ago after dinner as a matter of fact. I can't count your momma since she was ugly and tried to charge me. I had none of that.

Yeah she told me she would have done a FAT A$$ loser like you for a sypmathy F__K. When she saw the size of you side stick she figured it was a waste of time. She said she doest do small favors lil man

you are a joke, BTW your daughter could suck start a leaf blower, what a pro.

 

[Fins Up]

Just about an hour ago after dinner as a matter of fact. I can't count your momma since she was ugly and tried to charge me. I had none of that.

Hey lequip - Your quips are ridiculous. I'd bet everyone here would agree that you're not helping.

Let me put it in terms you might better understand - Shut your piehole.