Glider time at the Regionals

[Nova]

I've never flown a jet...but dude, have you ever flown a glider?

Yes, thanks for asking.

The point you are all missing that that gilders are MEANT to glide. Last time I checked airliners are not, at least not in the same sense that gliders are. Perhaps next time a CRJ finds itself in the above mentioned situation they should search for some good lift?

Gliders definitely make pilots better, more capable, more well rounded pilots.

Such training will make one more well rounded but how does it make them a better pilot? You might find it hard to believe that not all skills are transferable to different catagories or equipment.

Hmmm, maybe this will convince you http://www.wadenelson.com/gimli.html.

Wow, how right you are! I guess all those simulated engine failures practiced in powered aircraft throughout one's training couldn't prepare one for such an emergency. There is quite a difference being in a gliding situation in an aircraft BUILT to glider versus one that isn't.

 

[Nova]

Dude, the whole flight is an emergency if you don't manage it right. No second chances. How about energy management, stick skills, decision making, reading terrain and weather.... Not saying that a glider only pilot would make an airline pilot, but this guy should get some kind of credit for his 300 hours.

None of the glider pilots I've met have ever seen their "whole flight is an emergency" as you put it. The emergencies I was referring to referred to engine failures, engine fires, fuel management issues, lost comm., electrical failures, etc.

How about energy management, stick skills, decision making, reading terrain and weather....

And those skills aren't found or trained in powered aircraft pilots? There is a difference between those skills and how they are taught and how they are applied to powered aircraft and vise versa. Does the gliding skill of a powered flight pilot transfer to that required in a glider? Not in my experience, it's a completely different environment in an aircraft with completely different capabilities.

 

[CACTUS A-320]

There are a lot of benefits to glider flying, especially when learned before flying airplanes. I started flying gliders at 13, soloed at 14, got my private at 16- all before I was flying powered airplanes, or driving for that matter. The things I learned provided a good basis for flying airplanes- your stick-and-rudder skills, energy management, the atmosphere, the precision required behind a tow-plane. As far as the flight time question, I have 100 hrs in gliders and have always used it towards my total time. I keep a separate glider log and have brought it to the interviews. I think most employers will have you fill out a flight time grid which will show them how you account for your time. If you are right at minimums for employment and you are including glider time, I would check with them before coming into interview to see if thats okay. Also, I did work at Continental Express and when I interviewed, my glider experience never came up. They didn't seem to check my logs or time grid extensively. This was in 1999, though. Good luck!

 

[Mel Sharples]

The point you are all missing that that gilders are MEANT to glide. Last time I checked airliners are not, at least not in the same sense that gliders are. Perhaps next time a CRJ finds itself in the above mentioned situation they should search for some good lift?

No, dude. YOU are missing the point.

YOU were the one that started saying flying a glider has nothing to do with 121 airline flying. No one here ever said a gliding CRJ is exactly the same as a glider.

YOU made the broad observation that flying a glider does nothing for someone learning to fly at an airline. Is it the same? Obviously not. But will it help? Of course. If not, we would train all pilots on desktop sims and then throw them into training.

Far too many pilots don't put enough emphasis on basic flying skills. The more advanced the planes get the worse the "stick and rudder" skills get. Ask the Air Canada pilots who dead-sticked the 767 down to a safe landing if aerodynamics matter. Yes, it is not made to glide, but when you have no power it is the aerodynamic skill that may save your life.

No one is saying glider time = powered multi engine. Being a glider pilot only obviously doesn't teach someone how to fly an ILS. But to say that it is of little or no benefit shows how truly ignorant you are.




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[logjammer]

Qoute by Nova:

Such training will make one more well rounded but how does it make them a better pilot? You might find it hard to believe that not all skills are transferable to different catagories or equipment.

I'll take a "well rounded pilot" up front any day, especially when one of those "it ain't in the checklist" emergencies pops up. Glider flying and aerobatics are excellent forms of currency for pilots.

 

[BSkin]

OK, can we cover blimp time now?

 

[Nova]

No, dude. YOU are missing the point.

YOU were the one that started saying flying a glider has nothing to do with 121 airline flying. No one here ever said a gliding CRJ is exactly the same as a glider.

Check the above posts, someone did mention the CRJ glider incident. It appears to be a lame attempt at drawing parallels between the two.

YOU made the broad observation that flying a glider does nothing for someone learning to fly at an airline. Is it the same? Obviously not. But will it help? Of course. If not, we would train all pilots on desktop sims and then throw them into training.

Couldn't the same be said about desktop sims? Is it the same? Obviously not. But will it help? Of course. Oddly that time isn't counted either.

Please quote me where I said that glider flying does NOTHING?

Answer this though, what unique aspects of glider flying are relivient to powered commercial flying? Don't say stick and rudder skills as those can be honed just as well with tail draggers or other similar powered flight trainers. Does a glider pilot understand or have higher proficiency with power management? P-Factor? Slipstream? ...or other powered flight aerodynamics? Please feel free to justify how those unique glider skills relate.

It's a pitch and power industry where as gliders only deal with pitch.

Far too many pilots don't put enough emphasis on basic flying skills. The more advanced the planes get the worse the "stick and rudder" skills get.

And that is related to this topic how? News flash, stick and rudder skills aren't unique to gliders.

Ask the Air Canada pilots who dead-sticked the 767 down to a safe landing if aerodynamics matter. Yes, it is not made to glide, but when you have no power it is the aerodynamic skill that may save your life.

Holding best glide doesn't take a rocket scientist. Is that all you can come up with? Glider flying will pay off ten-fold if you should find yourself in that 1-in-a-million position of a dual engine failure?

Again, you continue to spout on about aerodynamics as if that is unique to glider flying. Not only that but you seem to miss that powered aircraft aerodynamics are different than glider aerodynamics. As many world air forces did for their pilots, basic flight was taught through glider training but that was only the first step. From that they advanced into powered aircraft, gliders were a building block. With the eventual goal of a powered flight pilot does another 500 hours in the glider pay off with bigger returns in the end?

There is a reason that the POH for a Blanik is only a fraction that of a Beechcraft.

 

[Mel Sharples]

Answer this though, what unique aspects of glider flying are relivient to powered commercial flying? Don't say stick and rudder skills as those can be honed just as well with tail draggers or other similar powered flight trainers.

This is my last post on this one because it is like arguing with a brick wall.

I am not trying to say, and never have, that glider time is equal to powered flight. This whole thing started because someone asked if they would get credit for glider time at an airline, and we thought he should.

At no time did I ever say just flying a glider makes you airline worthy. All I was ever saying is that he should get credit for this in some way. It helps but is not mutually exclusive.

You are trying to throw out the baby with the bathwater here. You're making it into an argument no else is trying to defend. Glider flying helps make one a better pilot just like 152 time, Baron time, etc. It is a part of the whole package. By the way, if you think dead-sticking anything is as simple as holding best glide you are a moron. I seriously hope you don't think it is just that simple.

Bottom line: Glider flying certainly helps (it can't hurt) and that's all. Can you get the same skills elsewhere? Probably. But you CAN'T say that flying a glider is of NO benefit. If you honestly believe that, I think you are fooling yourself.



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